Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

First question: Roughly when did Lower Regent Street get renamed into
Regent Street?

Second Question: Is it simply worth firing off a complaint to LUL to ask
why the street exit signs haven't been changed? I'm guessing they
haven't been changed is they fit in with the décor of the station and
would be too expensive or impossible to replace or correct.

--
Phil Richards, London, UK
3,600+ railway photos since 1980 at:
http://europeanrail.fotopic.net
http://britishrail.fotopic.net

Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

In article , philrichards1
@blueyonder.co.uk says...

First question: Roughly when did Lower Regent Street get renamed into
Regent Street?

Second Question: Is it simply worth firing off a complaint to LUL to ask
why the street exit signs haven't been changed? I'm guessing they
haven't been changed is they fit in with the décor of the station and
would be too expensive or impossible to replace or correct.

Was it ever officially Lower Regent Street?

I have various Kelly's Post Office Directories and London atlases of
different ages and all seem to show just Regent Street [SW1 south of
Piccadilly Circus].

Maybe Mr Jelf knows.

Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

In message , Phil Richards
writes

First question: Roughly when did Lower Regent Street get renamed into
Regent Street?

I think it's only ever been a colloquial name, albeit widely used (the
Royal Mail database records the "Lower Regent Street Post Office" as
being at 11, Regent Street, for instance!).

Second Question: Is it simply worth firing off a complaint to LUL to
ask why the street exit signs haven't been changed?

Why? There are all sorts of signs that refine the exact location of an
exit (e.g. from Green Park ... "Piccadilly North"). There is no
expectation that a road is named Piccadilly North.
--
Paul Terry

Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

On Sep 23, 7:38*pm, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message , Jim
writes

In article , philrichards1
says...

First question: Roughly when did Lower Regent Street get renamed into
Regent Street?

Second Question: Is it simply worth firing off a complaint to LUL to ask
why the street exit signs haven't been changed? I'm guessing they
haven't been changed is they fit in with the décor of the station and
would be too expensive or impossible to replace or correct.

Was it ever officially Lower Regent Street?

I have various Kelly's Post Office Directories and London atlases of
different ages and all seem to show just Regent Street [SW1 south of
Piccadilly Circus].

Maybe Mr Jelf knows.

Goodness, such faith! * I assure you there are many contributors to utl
who are far more versed in the capital and its story than me!

All I can add to this is to confirm - after a trawl through a fair
selection of my London library - that it doesn't ever seem to have ever
been called "Lower Regent Street" in any official capacity. * That said,
it's a sensible distinction as it's hardly "naturally continuous" with
the main part of Regent Street.

A couple of other observations that are vaguely related:

It's surprising how many examples there are of streets being known by
one name but actually being something else. * It's "Strand", not "The
Strand" and "Aldwych" not "The Aldwych".

But a number of streets do get the definitive article tagged on, in
speech at least, to a greater or lesser extent - e.g. The Old Kent
Road, The Euston Road, The Edgware Road, The Walworth Road, The
Cromwell Road, The Holloway Road, The King's Road, The Mile End Road,
The Harrow Road, The East India Dock Road, The Uxbridge Road etc.


The section of Baker Street north of Marylebone Road was called "Upper
Baker Street" until 1 January 1930.

Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

In message , Ian Jelf
writes

All I can add to this is to confirm - after a trawl through a fair
selection of my London library - that it doesn't ever seem to have ever
been called "Lower Regent Street" in any official capacity. That
said, it's a sensible distinction as it's hardly "naturally continuous"
with the main part of Regent Street.

But it is contiguous in street numbers, which I suspect is the defining
factor.
--
Paul Terry

Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

On Thu, 23 Sep 2010, Mizter T wrote:

On Sep 23, 7:38*pm, Ian Jelf wrote:

It's surprising how many examples there are of streets being known by
one name but actually being something else. * It's "Strand", not "The
Strand" and "Aldwych" not "The Aldwych".

But a number of streets do get the definitive article tagged on, in
speech at least, to a greater or lesser extent - e.g. The Old Kent Road,
The Euston Road, The Edgware Road, The Walworth Road, The Cromwell Road,
The Holloway Road, The King's Road, The Mile End Road, The Harrow Road,
The East India Dock Road, The Uxbridge Road etc.

Mostly - and ISTR we've talked about this before - ones that are named for
a destination. The expression 'the Edgware road' means 'the road to
Edgware', in much the same way as you might say 'the radiator pipe' or
'the lamp cable', and i tend to think that this usage came first, with the
idea that the road had a name, and that name was 'Edgware Road', coming
later.

The two exceptions to that rule in your list are The King's Road, where i
think an analogous origin exists, and The Cromwell Road, which i cannot
explain.

A similar principle applies to roads being called 'Road' at all. It's
Holloway Road because it goes to Holloway, but Liverpool Street because it
doesn't go to Liverpool!

Although of course there is a Liverpool Road running up from Angel which
also does not go to Liverpool, so this is not an iron rule.

Looking at a map reminds me of the interesting case where Hornsey Road,
having come down from Hornsey to meet Holloway Road, crosses over it and
becomes Hornsey Street. You indeed cannot get to Hornsey on Hornsey
Street, only to the tip.

tom

--
Information is not knowledge. -- Albert Einstein

Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
rth.li...
On Thu, 23 Sep 2010, Mizter T wrote:

On Sep 23, 7:38 pm, Ian Jelf wrote:

It's surprising how many examples there are of streets being known by
one name but actually being something else. It's "Strand", not "The
Strand" and "Aldwych" not "The Aldwych".

But a number of streets do get the definitive article tagged on, in
speech at least, to a greater or lesser extent - e.g. The Old Kent Road,
The Euston Road, The Edgware Road, The Walworth Road, The Cromwell Road,
The Holloway Road, The King's Road, The Mile End Road, The Harrow Road,
The East India Dock Road, The Uxbridge Road etc.

Mostly - and ISTR we've talked about this before - ones that are named for
a destination. The expression 'the Edgware road' means 'the road to
Edgware', in much the same way as you might say 'the radiator pipe' or
'the lamp cable', and i tend to think that this usage came first, with the
idea that the road had a name, and that name was 'Edgware Road', coming
later.

The two exceptions to that rule in your list are The King's Road, where i
think an analogous origin exists, and The Cromwell Road, which i cannot
explain.

A similar principle applies to roads being called 'Road' at all. It's
Holloway Road because it goes to Holloway, but Liverpool Street because it
doesn't go to Liverpool!

Although of course there is a Liverpool Road running up from Angel which
also does not go to Liverpool, so this is not an iron rule.

Looking at a map reminds me of the interesting case where Hornsey Road,
having come down from Hornsey to meet Holloway Road, crosses over it and
becomes Hornsey Street. You indeed cannot get to Hornsey on Hornsey
Street, only to the tip.

tom

--
Information is not knowledge. -- Albert Einstein

But I have recently been in contact with an American author over the use of
"THE high street" as against his "main street", and why. Indeed, why?

MaxB

Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

On Sep 23, 10:25*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Thu, 23 Sep 2010, Mizter T wrote:

On Sep 23, 7:38*pm, Ian Jelf wrote:

It's surprising how many examples there are of streets being known by
one name but actually being something else. * It's "Strand", not "The
Strand" and "Aldwych" not "The Aldwych".

But a number of streets do get the definitive article tagged on, in
speech at least, to a greater or lesser extent - e.g. The Old Kent Road,
The Euston Road, The Edgware Road, The Walworth Road, The Cromwell Road,
The Holloway Road, The King's Road, The Mile End Road, The Harrow Road,
The East India Dock Road, The Uxbridge Road etc.

Mostly - and ISTR we've talked about this before - ones that are named for
a destination. The expression 'the Edgware road' means 'the road to
Edgware', in much the same way as you might say 'the radiator pipe' or
'the lamp cable', and i tend to think that this usage came first, with the
idea that the road had a name, and that name was 'Edgware Road', coming
later.

I agree with all of that - indeed I might have had a stab at a similar
explanation in my earlier post if I'd had an extra moment or two. (I
probably shouldn't really have capitalised the the's [1] in my list
but I think I was just ramming home The point.)

[1] Trying to pluralise "the" will always end in tears, I know...


The two exceptions to that rule in your list are The King's Road, where i
think an analogous origin exists, and The Cromwell Road, which i cannot
explain.

The first is easy - it's Charles II's.

'The' Cromwell Road is indeed the odd one out - I couldn't and still
can't think of another similar example. It's a major thoroughfare of
course - part of the Great West Road (aka the A4) - so perhaps that
encourages the use of the definitive article (not to say that such
usage is anything like universal either). I can't imagine it's really
out of any reverence for Old Ironsides himself though.


A similar principle applies to roads being called 'Road' at all. It's
Holloway Road because it goes to Holloway, but Liverpool Street because it
doesn't go to Liverpool!

Although of course there is a Liverpool Road running up from Angel which
also does not go to Liverpool, so this is not an iron rule.

The 'Road' bit isn't an iron rule, but if it's 'Road' and it
(eventually) leads one to its namesake then I reckon it's a decent
rule of thumb, if not an iron rule.


Looking at a map reminds me of the interesting case where Hornsey Road,
having come down from Hornsey to meet Holloway Road, crosses over it and
becomes Hornsey Street. You indeed cannot get to Hornsey on Hornsey
Street, only to the tip.

aka recycling and reuse centre, or some such!

--
Information is not knowledge. -- Albert Einstein

But it is power. (Unless old Albert thought otherwise?)

Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

On 2010\09\23 20:12, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Ian Jelf
writes

All I can add to this is to confirm - after a trawl through a fair
selection of my London library - that it doesn't ever seem to have
ever been called "Lower Regent Street" in any official capacity. That
said, it's a sensible distinction as it's hardly "naturally
continuous" with the main part of Regent Street.

But it is contiguous in street numbers, which I suspect is the defining
factor.

Although sometimes different roads have contiguous house numbers, such
as Saint Pauls Avenue / Chapter Road, and Harrow Road / Wembley High
Road / Harrow Road.

Piccadilly Circus/Lower Regent Street
 

On 2010\09\24 01:05, Mizter T wrote:

On Sep 23, 10:25 pm, Tom wrote:

On Thu, 23 Sep 2010, Mizter T wrote:

On Sep 23, 7:38 pm, Ian wrote:

It's surprising how many examples there are of streets being known by
one name but actually being something else. It's "Strand", not "The
Strand" and "Aldwych" not "The Aldwych".

But a number of streets do get the definitive article tagged on, in
speech at least, to a greater or lesser extent - e.g. The Old Kent Road,
The Euston Road, The Edgware Road, The Walworth Road, The Cromwell Road,
The Holloway Road, The King's Road, The Mile End Road, The Harrow Road,
The East India Dock Road, The Uxbridge Road etc.

Mostly - and ISTR we've talked about this before - ones that are named for
a destination. The expression 'the Edgware road' means 'the road to
Edgware', in much the same way as you might say 'the radiator pipe' or
'the lamp cable', and i tend to think that this usage came first, with the
idea that the road had a name, and that name was 'Edgware Road', coming
later.

I agree with all of that - indeed I might have had a stab at a similar
explanation in my earlier post if I'd had an extra moment or two. (I
probably shouldn't really have capitalised the the's [1] in my list
but I think I was just ramming home The point.)

[1] Trying to pluralise "the" will always end in tears, I know...


The two exceptions to that rule in your list are The King's Road, where i
think an analogous origin exists, and The Cromwell Road, which i cannot
explain.

The first is easy - it's Charles II's.

'The' Cromwell Road is indeed the odd one out - I couldn't and still
can't think of another similar example.

The North Circular Road, The Westway, The Western Avenue, The Eastern
Avenue, The Great North Road, The Great North Way. "Pop Goes The Weasel"
contains the line "Up and down the City Road", although that may have
been contrived for scansion purposes and doesn't really sound right to me.

Although of course there is a Liverpool Road running up from Angel which
also does not go to Liverpool, so this is not an iron rule.

It does go towards Liverpool. I believe that the original Great North
Road ran down Friern Barnet Lane, Colney Hatch Lane, Crouch End Broadway
and Hornsey Road... Liverpool Road seems to be a continuation of this
line, so will have been the road from London to Liverpool at one point.


The 'Road' bit isn't an iron rule, but if it's 'Road' and it
(eventually) leads one to its namesake then I reckon it's a decent
rule of thumb, if not an iron rule.

"Way" seems to work just as well as "Road"... The Hendon Way, The
Watford Way, The Purley Way.

"Lane" seems not to work though... "The Finchley Lane" and "The Hendon
Lane" sound wrong. This road is called "Hendon Lane" when it's in
Finchley and become "Finchley Lane" as soon as it crosses into Hendon,
so it's definitely a named-after-destination road.