On Sep 28, 3:08*pm, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:37:50 +0100

Basil Jet wrote:
This line uses Waterloo and Bank as its direction of travel. Which makes
a lot more sense IMO.

Really? Not Waterloo and City?

I haven't used it for years but I'm pretty sure it said "To Bank" or something
like that tho perhaps it does say "City". At any rate , it doesn't use compass
directions.

Public signs say Bank (or 'To Bank'), not City (or 'To City'). I think
the W&C line station at the Bank end was indeed once called (and
signed) "City", so things would likely have been different then (CULG
doesn't help me on this though).

In message
,
Mizter T writes

I think the W&C line station at the Bank end was indeed once called
(and signed) "City", so things would likely have been different then
(CULG doesn't help me on this though).

Yes, it opened in 1898 as "City", changing to "Bank" in 1900 when the
City and South London extended to Moorgate (although the CSLR station
was originally proposed to be called "Lombard Street").
--
Paul Terry

On 2010\09\28 16:04, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Walter Briscoe
writes
From a customer perspective, all Piccadilly platforms are Eastbound or
Westbound, apart from Finsbury Park where Northbound and Southbound
are used. I assumed this is for compatibility with Victoria Line
directions.

Do internal references at FPK use Eastbound and Westbound or NS?

From a trains POV it is all EW on the Picc. The eastbound Picc platform
is adjacent to the northbound Victoria platform of course.

And at Euston one of the Northbound Northern Line platforms is alongside
the Northbound Victoria Line platform, although the trains run
approximately west and east respectively.

In article , d ()
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:40:30 +0100
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
Regarding an earlier comment about why the Picc uses east-west when it
'patently isn't'. Well it's safety; the Picc has been defined as an

Oh BS. It was perfectly safe using north & southbound on the line north
of kings X for 100 years. Why suddenly (apart from nanny state
elf-n-softies) is is suddenly unsafe?

eastbound but it would be silly to keep changing the references as that
would just cause confusion. Once we know which is the eastbound or
westbound road it doesn't matter which actual direction it goes; we
could call them direction Fred and direction John for all it matters as
long as everyone knows what we're talking about.

Then why not do as almost every other metro system does and just
use the termini as the direction?

That's what I find so confusing in Paris. The lines have been extended too
often with the destinations therefore changed.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

WIND OUSE - all lines have defined locations where EB becomes SB or
v.v. and WB NB and v.v.

Jubilee the change is at the step plate at the junction south of Green
Park - the JLE is all EB/WB, the non JLE SB/NB. There is signage in
the tunnel to advise T/Ops of the change. It is essential to use the
correct terminology in e.g. in train radio safety critical messages
that why the signage is there.

I'm not going to look up the complete list and post it, AFAIK it is in
Quail or other maps in the public domain.

--
Nick

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:24:05 +0100, "Richard J."
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote on 28 September 2010
02:52:42 ...
On 2010\09\28 02:28, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:35:24 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down" by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction;

First, try defining up/down on the Circle Line.

Try defining north/south/east/west on the Circle Line. ;-)

Unfortunately LU do so. I've heard references to "westbound Circle
Line" at High Street Kensington, referring to the inner rail which goes
south then east.

That is just one station not the whole line.

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:15:43 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:


"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down"
by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. Is that correct? Did they ever use
up/down? I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of
the
tube lines; comments?


The main line use of up/down is not applicable to the UndergrounD so the
geographic system is more appropriate. I believe such useage predates
Yerkes
involvement.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/


Yes, when I read it I did think that (a) up/down wasn't appropriate and (b)
what happened before Yerkes.

But

I also wondered about the Metropolitan given its' grand plans and whether
the line through Rickmansworth was ever up/down?


The brief history of the Metropolitan Line published in 1973 makes no mention
of the terms. Neither does the contemporary How the Underground Works in its
description of four tracking of the line north(!) of Harrow on the Hill.
Negative evidence I know.

Old BR sectional appendixes will presumably use the owner's
definitions between Harrow and Amersham/Aylesbury ?

In message
Charles Ellson wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:15:43 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:


"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down"
by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. Is that correct? Did they ever use
up/down? I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of
the
tube lines; comments?


The main line use of up/down is not applicable to the UndergrounD so the
geographic system is more appropriate. I believe such useage predates
Yerkes
involvement.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/


Yes, when I read it I did think that (a) up/down wasn't appropriate and
(b) what happened before Yerkes.

But

I also wondered about the Metropolitan given its' grand plans and
whether the line through Rickmansworth was ever up/down?


The brief history of the Metropolitan Line published in 1973 makes no
mention of the terms. Neither does the contemporary How the Underground
Works in its description of four tracking of the line north(!) of Harrow
on the Hill. Negative evidence I know.

Old BR sectional appendixes will presumably use the owner's definitions
between Harrow and Amersham/Aylesbury ?

Does anybody have access to the appropriate docs?

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

In message
"Railsigns.co.uk" wrote:

On Sep 28, 8:48*pm, Graeme wrote:
In message
* * * * * Charles Ellson wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:15:43 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message
* * * * *"Graham Harrison" wrote:

I also wondered about the Metropolitan given its' (sic) grand plans and
whether *the line through Rickmansworth was ever up/down?

The brief history of the Metropolitan Line published in 1973 makes no
mention of the terms. *Neither does the contemporary How the Underground
Works in its description of four tracking of the line north(!) of Harrow
on the Hill. *Negative evidence I know.

Old BR sectional appendixes will presumably use the owner's definitions
between Harrow and Amersham/Aylesbury ?

Does anybody have access to the appropriate docs?


I have two old Westinghouse publicity brochures describing signalling
alterations on the Met. around Harrow in 1924/5 and at Edgware Road in
1927. "Up" and "Down" designations are used throughout the text and
diagrams and can be clearly seen on a photograph of the signal box
diagram in Harrow North signal cabin.


Well that is about as definitive as we are likely to see. Thanks.

I've had a further rummage through my collection of LT publications and not
one of them seems to have any reference to the subject. Unfortunately I
don't have a copy of Rails Through the Clay so can't see if that has any.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
...

Regarding an earlier comment about why the Picc uses east-west when it
'patently isn't'. Well it's safety; the Picc has been defined as an
east - west railway and references internally stick to that. After all,
it is possible to approach Cockfosters heading virtually west on the
eastbound but it would be silly to keep changing the references as that
would just cause confusion. Once we know which is the eastbound or
westbound road it doesn't matter which actual direction it goes; we could
call them direction Fred and direction John for all it matters as long as
everyone knows what we're talking about.

In my experience this is very much the way that American highways tend to
work; they are nominally east-west or north-south but don't necessarily
follow this direction for their entire length, and compass points are always
used on signage to indicate which direction you are going in. Because it's
common in America for one stretch of road to form part of more than one
highway, you'll sometimes see a road which carries more than one number and
more than one direction (I'm not sure if I'm explaining it very well;
perhaps an American could put it better). In any case the emphasis on
compass points can take some getting used to for a British visitor driving
in America for the first time, and it can be helpful to compare it to the
use of north/south/east/westbound on the underground.

Knowing this, I'd often wondered whether this convention on the underground
originated as an example of American influence on the Yerkes tubes, but have
never found out for certain

Martin

Martin