Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down" by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. Is that correct? Did they ever use
up/down? I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of the
tube lines; comments?

Help!

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Sep 27, 5:35*pm, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:
On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down" by
the staff. * However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. * Is that correct? * Did they ever use
up/down? * I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of the
tube lines; comments?

Help!

I make it a practice to always take an "up" train from Berwick-upon-
Tweed

David

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:35:24 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down" by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction;

First, try defining up/down on the Circle Line.

it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. Is that correct? Did they ever use
up/down? I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of the
tube lines; comments?

Help!

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On 2010\09\28 02:28, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:35:24 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down" by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction;

First, try defining up/down on the Circle Line.

Try defining north/south/east/west on the Circle Line. ;-)

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Sep 28, 2:52*am, Basil Jet wrote:

Underground lines by their geographic direction;

First, try defining up/down on the Circle Line.

Try defining north/south/east/west on the Circle Line. ;-)

We don't for internal use.

We use 'inner' and 'outer'

When you do track acusotmoised etc courses they tell you 2 acronyms
WIND and OUSE where rule specifics apply to one direction or the
other.

WIND = westbound inner northbound down

OUSE = outer up southbound eastbound

None of this helps customers of course.

--
Nick

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Sep 28, 5:30*am, D7666 wrote:
On Sep 28, 2:52*am, Basil Jet wrote:

Underground lines by their geographic direction;

First, try defining up/down on the Circle Line.

Try defining north/south/east/west on the Circle Line. ;-)

We don't for internal use.

We use 'inner' and 'outer'

When you do track acusotmoised etc courses they tell you 2 acronyms
WIND and OUSE where rule specifics apply to one direction or the
other.

WIND = westbound inner northbound down

OUSE = outer up southbound eastbound

None of this helps customers of course.

Out if idle curiosity, at what point on the Heathrow loop does
westbound become eastbound? Was there a change with the opening of
terminal 5? Also, is the direction maintained for the length of a
whole line, or do they change with geography? On the Jubilee line,
for example, from a compass perspective, what is northbound in the
east is southbound in the west for the same "logical" direction.

Robin

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On 28 Sep, 07:14, bob wrote:

Out if idle curiosity, at what point on the Heathrow loop does
westbound become eastbound?

Since the loop is unidirectional, surely at entry trains cease being
westbound, and at exit become eastbound? It's single track, so you
would not need to distinguish it from an adjacent one, would you? I'm
only guessing here.

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down" by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. Is that correct? Did they ever use
up/down? I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of the
tube lines; comments?


The main line use of up/down is not applicable to the UndergrounD so the
geographic system is more appropriate. I believe such useage predates Yerkes
involvement.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

There's also the problem of deciding where in central London the
southbound line say would change from being 'up' (which is normally
but not always TO London) to 'down' - away from London.

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:12:19 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sep 27, 5:35*pm, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:
On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down" by
the staff. * However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. * Is that correct? * Did they ever use
up/down? * I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of the
tube lines; comments?

Help!

I make it a practice to always take an "up" train from Berwick-upon-
Tweed

To where?

--
Frank Erskine

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

I've never understood why the Piccadilly line from Kings Cross to
Cockfosters is described as 'Eastbound', when it patently isn't.

Peter

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

peter wrote:

I've never understood why the Piccadilly line from Kings Cross to
Cockfosters is described as 'Eastbound', when it patently isn't.

Have you also wondered why the whole system is called "Underground",
when it patently isn't.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683688.html
(53890 (Class 116) at Birmingham New Street, 1985)

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 00:13:05 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be
wrote this:-

There's also the problem of deciding where in central London the
southbound line say would change from being 'up' (which is normally
but not always TO London) to 'down' - away from London.

That would be a problem, though not a great one.

Two of the larger exceptions down south to up and down referring to
London are South Wales, where up is up the valley, and former
Midland Railway lines where up is towards Derby.

I believe up and down were imported from stage coaches.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down"
by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. Is that correct? Did they ever use
up/down? I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of
the
tube lines; comments?


The main line use of up/down is not applicable to the UndergrounD so the
geographic system is more appropriate. I believe such useage predates
Yerkes
involvement.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/


Yes, when I read it I did think that (a) up/down wasn't appropriate and (b)
what happened before Yerkes.

But

I also wondered about the Metropolitan given its' grand plans and whether
the line through Rickmansworth was ever up/down?

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On 28 Sep, 09:48, Pat Ricroft wrote:
On 28 Sep, 08:22, Frank Erskine wrote:

On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:12:19 -0700 (PDT), "

I make it a practice to always take an "up" train from Berwick-upon-
Tweed

To where?

To the nearest capital city.
--

That would be a Down train then.

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

Railsigns.co.uk wrote:

On 28 Sep, 09:48, Pat Ricroft wrote:
On 28 Sep, 08:22, Frank Erskine wrote:

On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:12:19 -0700 (PDT), "

I make it a practice to always take an "up" train from Berwick-upon-
Tweed

To where?

To the nearest capital city.
--

That would be a Down train then.

"Doon", shurely?
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632886.html
(33 111 at Weymouth Town, May 1985)

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

Basil Jet wrote on 28 September 2010
02:52:42 ...
On 2010\09\28 02:28, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:35:24 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down" by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction;

First, try defining up/down on the Circle Line.

Try defining north/south/east/west on the Circle Line. ;-)

Unfortunately LU do so. I've heard references to "westbound Circle
Line" at High Street Kensington, referring to the inner rail which goes
south then east.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On 28/09/10 10:40, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
we could call them
direction Fred and direction John for all it matters as long as everyone
knows what we're talking about.

Or perhaps direction 'up' and direction 'down' :-)

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

In message of Tue, 28 Sep 2010
10:40:30 in uk.transport.london, Steve Fitzgerald ]
writes
In message
s.com, bob writes

Out if idle curiosity, at what point on the Heathrow loop does
westbound become eastbound? Was there a change with the opening of
terminal 5? Also, is the direction maintained for the length of a
whole line, or do they change with geography? On the Jubilee line,
for example, from a compass perspective, what is northbound in the
east is southbound in the west for the same "logical" direction.

From Hatton Cross to PiccEx Junction (where the T5 extension goes off)
you are referred to as being in the loop. As you can only go one way,
it's not a problem.

Regarding an earlier comment about why the Picc uses east-west when it
'patently isn't'. Well it's safety; the Picc has been defined as an
east - west railway and references internally stick to that. After
all, it is possible to approach Cockfosters heading virtually west on
the eastbound but it would be silly to keep changing the references as
that would just cause confusion. Once we know which is the eastbound
or westbound road it doesn't matter which actual direction it goes; we
could call them direction Fred and direction John for all it matters as
long as everyone knows what we're talking about.

From a customer perspective, all Piccadilly platforms are Eastbound or
Westbound, apart from Finsbury Park where Northbound and Southbound are
used. I assumed this is for compatibility with Victoria Line directions.

Do internal references at FPK use Eastbound and Westbound or NS?

I may as well list my understanding for all London Underground lines:

Bakerloo: NS

Central: EW; flips at Hainault.

Circle: EW except SN at Aldgate. Flips at Aldgate and Gloucester Road.

District: EW

Hammersmith & City: EW

Jubilee: NS - Stanmore to Green Park - otherwise WE

Metropolitan: NS except WE at Chesham, Uxbridge - West Harrow, Great
Portland Street - Liverpool Street.

Northern: NS

Piccadilly: EW except NS at Finsbury Park

Victoria: NS

Waterloo & City: NS
--
Walter Briscoe

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

"D7666" wrote in message
...
On Sep 28, 2:52 am, Basil Jet wrote:

Underground lines by their geographic direction;

First, try defining up/down on the Circle Line.

Try defining north/south/east/west on the Circle Line. ;-)

We don't for internal use.

We use 'inner' and 'outer'


Up in Glasgow they use inner and outer circle for the Subway and the
Cathcart circle. The latter use 2Ixx and 2Oxx for the headcodes on the
Cathcart circle.

John

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On 2010\09\28 11:57, Walter Briscoe wrote:

Piccadilly: EW except NS at Finsbury Park

Unless it's changed recently, it was N/S at every station from
Cockfosters to Russell Square, and N/W at Holborn (the Aldwych platform
was called southbound from Holborn).

Incidentally, my spell-checker tries to turn Cockfosters into, well,
French MEPs.

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On 28 Sep, 09:01, David Hansen wrote

That would be a problem, though not a great one.

Two of the larger exceptions down south to up and down referring to
London are South Wales, where up is up the valley, and former
Midland Railway lines where up is towards Derby.

Thanks, that's very interesting. Did the Midland definitions of up/
down remain after grouping, indeed if you travel from Trent jk to
StPan, are you still heading down? Wasn't the former MS&L line was
"up" into Cleethorpes.

Rgds/Ted

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 04:48:57 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be tedjrr
wrote this:-

Did the Midland definitions of up/down remain after grouping,

They remain to this day. Changing designation would be a fraught
task, I can see why it would be put off even if it was thought to be
a good idea.

Lines presumably change designation somewhere in Derby Midland
station. Perhaps there is some sort of object which marks the spot.

Also some designations might not be logical with the current railway
map. I don't know if it happens anywhere, but the designations may
have been set originally via a route which is now closed, such as
the former route from London to Nottingham via Corby and Melton
Mowbray.

indeed if you travel from Trent jk to StPan, are you still heading down?

I should have been more explicit. Up to Derby applied to lines not
going to London. The result of this is that a train from Birmingham
approaching Derby is running on the Up Main, while a train from
London, which will end up at the same platform, is running on the
Down Main. Both will depart on the Down Main, according to my 1980
Quail map.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:


"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down"
by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. Is that correct? Did they ever use
up/down? I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of
the
tube lines; comments?


The main line use of up/down is not applicable to the UndergrounD so the
geographic system is more appropriate. I believe such useage predates
Yerkes
involvement.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/


Yes, when I read it I did think that (a) up/down wasn't appropriate and (b)
what happened before Yerkes.

But

I also wondered about the Metropolitan given its' grand plans and whether
the line through Rickmansworth was ever up/down?


The brief history of the Metropolitan Line published in 1973 makes no mention
of the terms. Neither does the contemporary How the Underground Works in its
description of four tracking of the line north(!) of Harrow on the Hill.
Negative evidence I know.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

In message , at 13:15:36 on
Tue, 28 Sep 2010, David Hansen
remarked:
indeed if you travel from Trent jk to StPan, are you still heading down?

I should have been more explicit. Up to Derby applied to lines not
going to London. The result of this is that a train from Birmingham
approaching Derby is running on the Up Main, while a train from
London, which will end up at the same platform, is running on the
Down Main. Both will depart on the Down Main, according to my 1980
Quail map.

Assuming the Birmingham train is going to Sheffield, perhaps. If instead
it heads for Long Eaton and Nottingham, presumably that's up to start
with, then down past Trent Junction?
--
Roland Perry

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:27:34 +0100 someone who may be Roland Perry
wrote this:-

Assuming the Birmingham train is going to Sheffield, perhaps. If instead
it heads for Long Eaton and Nottingham, presumably that's up to start
with, then down past Trent Junction?

According to my 1980 Quail it will arrive at Derby on the Up Main,
change direction, depart on the Up Main, and from Trent East
Junction run on the Down main, then the Down Fast to Nottingham.
However, the designations may have been changed now, BR having a
fetish at the time for "fast" lines rather than "main" or "through"
lines as they used to be called in some places.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:40:30 +0100
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
Regarding an earlier comment about why the Picc uses east-west when it
'patently isn't'. Well it's safety; the Picc has been defined as an

Oh BS. It was perfectly safe using north & southbound on the line north of
kings X for 100 years. Why suddenly (apart from nanny state elf-n-softies) is
is suddenly unsafe?

eastbound but it would be silly to keep changing the references as that
would just cause confusion. Once we know which is the eastbound or
westbound road it doesn't matter which actual direction it goes; we
could call them direction Fred and direction John for all it matters as
long as everyone knows what we're talking about.

Then why not do as almost every other metro system does and just use the
termini as the direction?

B2003

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:57:58 +0100
Walter Briscoe wrote:
From a customer perspective, all Piccadilly platforms are Eastbound or

From people who live in the area its north and south. LU can use whatever
compass points they want , no one will take any notice.

Waterloo & City: NS

This line uses Waterloo and Bank as its direction of travel. Which makes a lot
more sense IMO.

B2003

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On 2010\09\28 14:04, d wrote:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:57:58 +0100
Walter wrote:
From a customer perspective, all Piccadilly platforms are Eastbound or

From people who live in the area its north and south. LU can use whatever
compass points they want , no one will take any notice.

Waterloo& City: NS

This line uses Waterloo and Bank as its direction of travel. Which makes a lot
more sense IMO.

Really? Not Waterloo and City?

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:37:50 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
This line uses Waterloo and Bank as its direction of travel. Which makes a
lot
more sense IMO.

Really? Not Waterloo and City?

I haven't used it for years but I'm pretty sure it said "To Bank" or something
like that tho perhaps it does say "City". At any rate , it doesn't use compass
directions.

B2003

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Sep 28, 3:08*pm, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:37:50 +0100

Basil Jet wrote:
This line uses Waterloo and Bank as its direction of travel. Which makes
a lot more sense IMO.

Really? Not Waterloo and City?

I haven't used it for years but I'm pretty sure it said "To Bank" or something
like that tho perhaps it does say "City". At any rate , it doesn't use compass
directions.

Public signs say Bank (or 'To Bank'), not City (or 'To City'). I think
the W&C line station at the Bank end was indeed once called (and
signed) "City", so things would likely have been different then (CULG
doesn't help me on this though).

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

In message
,
Mizter T writes

I think the W&C line station at the Bank end was indeed once called
(and signed) "City", so things would likely have been different then
(CULG doesn't help me on this though).

Yes, it opened in 1898 as "City", changing to "Bank" in 1900 when the
City and South London extended to Moorgate (although the CSLR station
was originally proposed to be called "Lombard Street").
--
Paul Terry

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On 2010\09\28 16:04, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message , Walter Briscoe
writes
From a customer perspective, all Piccadilly platforms are Eastbound or
Westbound, apart from Finsbury Park where Northbound and Southbound
are used. I assumed this is for compatibility with Victoria Line
directions.

Do internal references at FPK use Eastbound and Westbound or NS?

From a trains POV it is all EW on the Picc. The eastbound Picc platform
is adjacent to the northbound Victoria platform of course.

And at Euston one of the Northbound Northern Line platforms is alongside
the Northbound Victoria Line platform, although the trains run
approximately west and east respectively.

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

In article , d ()
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:40:30 +0100
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
Regarding an earlier comment about why the Picc uses east-west when it
'patently isn't'. Well it's safety; the Picc has been defined as an

Oh BS. It was perfectly safe using north & southbound on the line north
of kings X for 100 years. Why suddenly (apart from nanny state
elf-n-softies) is is suddenly unsafe?

eastbound but it would be silly to keep changing the references as that
would just cause confusion. Once we know which is the eastbound or
westbound road it doesn't matter which actual direction it goes; we
could call them direction Fred and direction John for all it matters as
long as everyone knows what we're talking about.

Then why not do as almost every other metro system does and just
use the termini as the direction?

That's what I find so confusing in Paris. The lines have been extended too
often with the destinations therefore changed.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

WIND OUSE - all lines have defined locations where EB becomes SB or
v.v. and WB NB and v.v.

Jubilee the change is at the step plate at the junction south of Green
Park - the JLE is all EB/WB, the non JLE SB/NB. There is signage in
the tunnel to advise T/Ops of the change. It is essential to use the
correct terminology in e.g. in train radio safety critical messages
that why the signage is there.

I'm not going to look up the complete list and post it, AFAIK it is in
Quail or other maps in the public domain.

--
Nick

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:24:05 +0100, "Richard J."
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote on 28 September 2010
02:52:42 ...
On 2010\09\28 02:28, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:35:24 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down" by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction;

First, try defining up/down on the Circle Line.

Try defining north/south/east/west on the Circle Line. ;-)

Unfortunately LU do so. I've heard references to "westbound Circle
Line" at High Street Kensington, referring to the inner rail which goes
south then east.

That is just one station not the whole line.

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:15:43 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:


"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down"
by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. Is that correct? Did they ever use
up/down? I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of
the
tube lines; comments?


The main line use of up/down is not applicable to the UndergrounD so the
geographic system is more appropriate. I believe such useage predates
Yerkes
involvement.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/


Yes, when I read it I did think that (a) up/down wasn't appropriate and (b)
what happened before Yerkes.

But

I also wondered about the Metropolitan given its' grand plans and whether
the line through Rickmansworth was ever up/down?


The brief history of the Metropolitan Line published in 1973 makes no mention
of the terms. Neither does the contemporary How the Underground Works in its
description of four tracking of the line north(!) of Harrow on the Hill.
Negative evidence I know.

Old BR sectional appendixes will presumably use the owner's
definitions between Harrow and Amersham/Aylesbury ?

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

In message
Charles Ellson wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:15:43 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:


"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message
"Graham Harrison" wrote:

On the "Main Line" trains are usually referred to as going "up" or "down"
by
the staff. However, it seems that, even "London Transport" refer to
Underground lines by their geographic direction; it's not just the public
signs that say "Northbound" etc. Is that correct? Did they ever use
up/down? I've seen it suggested that the reason for using "Southbound"
etc. is related to the American involvement in the building of some of
the
tube lines; comments?


The main line use of up/down is not applicable to the UndergrounD so the
geographic system is more appropriate. I believe such useage predates
Yerkes
involvement.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/


Yes, when I read it I did think that (a) up/down wasn't appropriate and
(b) what happened before Yerkes.

But

I also wondered about the Metropolitan given its' grand plans and
whether the line through Rickmansworth was ever up/down?


The brief history of the Metropolitan Line published in 1973 makes no
mention of the terms. Neither does the contemporary How the Underground
Works in its description of four tracking of the line north(!) of Harrow
on the Hill. Negative evidence I know.

Old BR sectional appendixes will presumably use the owner's definitions
between Harrow and Amersham/Aylesbury ?

Does anybody have access to the appropriate docs?

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

In message
"Railsigns.co.uk" wrote:

On Sep 28, 8:48*pm, Graeme wrote:
In message
* * * * * Charles Ellson wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:15:43 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message
* * * * *"Graham Harrison" wrote:

I also wondered about the Metropolitan given its' (sic) grand plans and
whether *the line through Rickmansworth was ever up/down?

The brief history of the Metropolitan Line published in 1973 makes no
mention of the terms. *Neither does the contemporary How the Underground
Works in its description of four tracking of the line north(!) of Harrow
on the Hill. *Negative evidence I know.

Old BR sectional appendixes will presumably use the owner's definitions
between Harrow and Amersham/Aylesbury ?

Does anybody have access to the appropriate docs?


I have two old Westinghouse publicity brochures describing signalling
alterations on the Met. around Harrow in 1924/5 and at Edgware Road in
1927. "Up" and "Down" designations are used throughout the text and
diagrams and can be clearly seen on a photograph of the signal box
diagram in Harrow North signal cabin.


Well that is about as definitive as we are likely to see. Thanks.

I've had a further rummage through my collection of LT publications and not
one of them seems to have any reference to the subject. Unfortunately I
don't have a copy of Rails Through the Clay so can't see if that has any.

--
Graeme Wall

This address not read, substitute trains for rail
Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail
Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/

Up/down/northbound/westbound?
 

"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
...

Regarding an earlier comment about why the Picc uses east-west when it
'patently isn't'. Well it's safety; the Picc has been defined as an
east - west railway and references internally stick to that. After all,
it is possible to approach Cockfosters heading virtually west on the
eastbound but it would be silly to keep changing the references as that
would just cause confusion. Once we know which is the eastbound or
westbound road it doesn't matter which actual direction it goes; we could
call them direction Fred and direction John for all it matters as long as
everyone knows what we're talking about.

In my experience this is very much the way that American highways tend to
work; they are nominally east-west or north-south but don't necessarily
follow this direction for their entire length, and compass points are always
used on signage to indicate which direction you are going in. Because it's
common in America for one stretch of road to form part of more than one
highway, you'll sometimes see a road which carries more than one number and
more than one direction (I'm not sure if I'm explaining it very well;
perhaps an American could put it better). In any case the emphasis on
compass points can take some getting used to for a British visitor driving
in America for the first time, and it can be helpful to compare it to the
use of north/south/east/westbound on the underground.

Knowing this, I'd often wondered whether this convention on the underground
originated as an example of American influence on the Yerkes tubes, but have
never found out for certain

Martin

Martin