On Nov 24, 7:58*am, MIG wrote:
On Nov 24, 7:49*am, Paul wrote:





On Nov 23, 5:54*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:16:48 -0800 (PST), Paul
wrote:

It might not be a bad idea though. There are regular problems on the
buses where I live (Walthamstow) where people with Oyster PAYG touch
in with insufficient credit. When the bus driver explains that they
don't have enough credit and will either have to pay cash or get off,
some of them pretend not to understand and ask the driver whether they
can travel for nothing, as it is 6am and they have to get to work.
This causes delays which tends to p**s everyone off.

I don't know if there is an easy solution to this issue though.

The easy solution is that people stop taking the **** and make sure
there is enough value on their cards. This is a standard "dodge" that
some people play in order to get their bus rides for free. I have seen
it so many times and the weary response from drivers suggests it is a
regular routine from the same old faces.

You would also be amazed at the number of people who go to a machine and
load just enough for the journey they are about to make. I recognise
some people are on tight budgets and cashflow is everything but I was
still surprised when I saw this recently.

--
Paul C

Exactly, I can imagine the response from a New York bus driver if I
said that I had failed to top up my pay per ride Metrocard. * Also, it
is amazing how many of these people suddenly lose the ability to speak
English when the bus driver tells them they have to pay, or proffer a
£20 note, and then start arguing when the bus driver says they don't
have any change. *If you use a Oyster card to make a PAYG journey on a
bus, does it show you the remaining balance just as it does on the
tube?

Why should it be surprising that some people aren't inclined to lend
any more to TfL, interest-free, than they are already forced to?

The previous journey may not have been on a bus. *Many LU gates give
no information, and many more give it in a tiny window that you can't
see without holding up the queue.

Last time I got the wrong kind of bleep on a bus, it was when the card
had been overcharged uncapped without me realising, after I'd
calculated that I ought to have enough to reach the cap.

I was going to be back on a travelcard the next day, so why leave
excessive credit on the card?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Whilst I can understand people not wanting to "lend" any more money to
TfL than they need to, it is still an individual's responsibility to
make sure they have enough credit on their card for the journey that
they intend to make. Think of the situation before Oyster was
introduced any you either had to have a Travelcard or enough cash for
the fare. I wonder if it would be possible to set up a system whereby
you get the worng kind of bleep if you balance falls below a set
amount, but you are still allowed to get on a bus, or go through the
gates on the tube, This would alert the card holder to the fact that
their balance is low, and should prompt them to do something about
it.. I suppose though whatever system you use (you could evne have e-
mail or text alerts when the balance falls below, say, £2.50) there
would still be some people who would chance their arm.

On Nov 23, 10:34*pm, David Walters wrote:
Changing the auto top-up threshold isn't going to change the number of
transactions. If my fares cost £20/week I'll have one top-up a week
with any threshold, just with the new one TfL will get a bit more of my
money in the bank for eternity just in case I go to Watford.

Avoiding negative balances for auto top-up customers seems reasonable
though.

But does a negative balance with auto top-up prevent you from entering
the
system again? And with the fare increases are you likely to blow the
amount
you're allowed to go negative.

I'm trying to establish if there's a technical reason, rather than TfL
having more
of my money in the bank and their "will always have enough credit"
reasoning
is sketchy.

Matt

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:16:48 -0800 (PST), Paul
wrote:

It might not be a bad idea though. There are regular problems on the
buses where I live (Walthamstow) where people with Oyster PAYG touch
in with insufficient credit. When the bus driver explains that they
don't have enough credit and will either have to pay cash or get off,
some of them pretend not to understand and ask the driver whether they
can travel for nothing, as it is 6am and they have to get to work.
This causes delays which tends to p**s everyone off.

I don't know if there is an easy solution to this issue though.

The easy solution is that people stop taking the **** and make sure
there is enough value on their cards. This is a standard "dodge" that
some people play in order to get their bus rides for free. I have seen
it so many times and the weary response from drivers suggests it is a
regular routine from the same old faces.

You would also be amazed at the number of people who go to a machine and
load just enough for the journey they are about to make. I recognise
some people are on tight budgets and cashflow is everything but I was
still surprised when I saw this recently.

Me!

I live out of London and unless I am expecting to make less than two
underground trips that day will arrive with an out-boundary ODTC.

Consequently, if I do need to use my Oyster I will need it for only one
underground or two bus trips so I feed it with the appropriate amount before
travel (though I usually add round pound amounts and end up with, say, 80p
spare).

Sometimes it can sit in a drawer for 18 months between uses and I don't like
have a large unnecessary balance on it, just in case

tim

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:01:40 -0000, tim.... wrote:
Or perhaps we could have auto top-up that allows for the intelligent user.

If you know that you are never going to make that 7 pound journey why force
the top-up system to allow for it?

How can you say never? You might suddenly discover a burning need to go to
Watford right now and the queues at the ticket machines are very long...

If you know that you only spend, say 10 pound per year why force a minimum
top-up of 20 pounds.

If I could select, "add 5 pounds whenever the balance is below 3 pound", I
would "suffer" the risks of losing my 8 pounds, but I'm not going to risk 28
pounds.

If you have auto top-up you have a registered card so there are no risks
of losing it, apart from a lengthy telephone call. Unless you can report
a lost card via the website?

On Nov 24, 10:54*am, "tim...." wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:16:48 -0800 (PST), Paul
wrote:

It might not be a bad idea though. There are regular problems on the
buses where I live (Walthamstow) where people with Oyster PAYG touch
in with insufficient credit. When the bus driver explains that they
don't have enough credit and will either have to pay cash or get off,
some of them pretend not to understand and ask the driver whether they
can travel for nothing, as it is 6am and they have to get to work.
This causes delays which tends to p**s everyone off.

I don't know if there is an easy solution to this issue though.

The easy solution is that people stop taking the **** and make sure
there is enough value on their cards. This is a standard "dodge" that
some people play in order to get their bus rides for free. I have seen
it so many times and the weary response from drivers suggests it is a
regular routine from the same old faces.

You would also be amazed at the number of people who go to a machine and
load just enough for the journey they are about to make. I recognise
some people are on tight budgets and cashflow is everything but I was
still surprised when I saw this recently.

Me!

I live out of London and unless I am expecting to make less than two
underground trips that day will arrive with an out-boundary ODTC.

Consequently, if I do need to use my Oyster I will need it for only one
underground or two bus trips so I feed it with the appropriate amount before
travel (though I usually add round pound amounts and end up with, say, 80p
spare).

Sometimes it can sit in a drawer for 18 months between uses and I don't like
have a large unnecessary balance on it, just in case

tim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Perhaps it would be possible to have a system where TfL logs all the
journeys that you make in a month, and then works out how much to
charge you after taking into account daily caps and unresolved
journeys. This would be similar to the Congestion Charge Auto Pay
facility which is being introduced next year. People would have to
register a credit or debit card though, and presumably they could
check their account online.

"Paul" wrote:
[snip]
Perhaps it would be possible to have a system where TfL logs all the
journeys that you make in a month, and then works out how much to
charge you after taking into account daily caps and unresolved
journeys. This would be similar to the Congestion Charge Auto Pay
facility which is being introduced next year. People would have to
register a credit or debit card though, and presumably they could
check their account online.

AIUI such a thing is in development (albeit still in the early stages) - but
it would work directly with a debit or credit card's RFID functionality
rather than by using a separate Oyster card.

"David Walters" wrote in message

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:01:40 -0000, tim.... wrote:

If you have auto top-up you have a registered card so there are no
risks of losing it, apart from a lengthy telephone call. Unless you
can report a lost card via the website?

I think I once did without problems. And I don't think mine was of the
fully registered variety (I still don't understand the two levels of
registration).

"Recliner" wrote:

"David Walters" wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:01:40 -0000, tim.... wrote:

If you have auto top-up you have a registered card so there are no
risks of losing it, apart from a lengthy telephone call. Unless you
can report a lost card via the website?

You can here, so long as it's "protected" (which also encompasses all
registered cards UIVMM) and know the security answer - see:
https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/link/0003.do


I think I once did without problems. And I don't think mine was of the
fully registered variety (I still don't understand the two levels of
registration).

I recall trying to do so years ago after losing one, but I had three cards
(don't ask!) that shared all the same registration details, though the
security answers were different, and all were also associated with my online
account. I think that despite providing the correct number of the lost card
plus the correct security answer, the customer services bods tried to cancel
the wrong card and then emailed back saying I'd provided wrong security
answer and could I provide the correct one - I think rather pathetically at
this point I gave up (the lost card had minimal credit on it, didn't have
auto top-up, and I think I recall checking online to see if anyone was using
it and I don't think they were - I think the relevant card number is the one
that disappeared off my online account a while back).

I haven't entirely got my head round the two levels of registration either I
must admit - I'll try and properly suss it out at some point.

On 24/11/2010 07:49, Paul wrote:
On Nov 23, 5:54 pm, Paul wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:16:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

It might not be a bad idea though. There are regular problems on the
buses where I live (Walthamstow) where people with Oyster PAYG touch
in with insufficient credit. When the bus driver explains that they
don't have enough credit and will either have to pay cash or get off,
some of them pretend not to understand and ask the driver whether they
can travel for nothing, as it is 6am and they have to get to work.
This causes delays which tends to p**s everyone off.

I don't know if there is an easy solution to this issue though.

The easy solution is that people stop taking the **** and make sure
there is enough value on their cards. This is a standard "dodge" that
some people play in order to get their bus rides for free. I have seen
it so many times and the weary response from drivers suggests it is a
regular routine from the same old faces.

You would also be amazed at the number of people who go to a machine and
load just enough for the journey they are about to make. I recognise
some people are on tight budgets and cashflow is everything but I was
still surprised when I saw this recently.

--
Paul C

Exactly, I can imagine the response from a New York bus driver if I
said that I had failed to top up my pay per ride Metrocard. Also, it
is amazing how many of these people suddenly lose the ability to speak
English when the bus driver tells them they have to pay, or proffer a
£20 note, and then start arguing when the bus driver says they don't
have any change. If you use a Oyster card to make a PAYG journey on a
bus, does it show you the remaining balance just as it does on the
tube?

Yes.

On 24/11/2010 07:58, MIG wrote:
On Nov 24, 7:49 am, wrote:
On Nov 23, 5:54 pm, Paul wrote:





On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:16:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

It might not be a bad idea though. There are regular problems on the
buses where I live (Walthamstow) where people with Oyster PAYG touch
in with insufficient credit. When the bus driver explains that they
don't have enough credit and will either have to pay cash or get off,
some of them pretend not to understand and ask the driver whether they
can travel for nothing, as it is 6am and they have to get to work.
This causes delays which tends to p**s everyone off.

I don't know if there is an easy solution to this issue though.

The easy solution is that people stop taking the **** and make sure
there is enough value on their cards. This is a standard "dodge" that
some people play in order to get their bus rides for free. I have seen
it so many times and the weary response from drivers suggests it is a
regular routine from the same old faces.

You would also be amazed at the number of people who go to a machine and
load just enough for the journey they are about to make. I recognise
some people are on tight budgets and cashflow is everything but I was
still surprised when I saw this recently.

--
Paul C

Exactly, I can imagine the response from a New York bus driver if I
said that I had failed to top up my pay per ride Metrocard. Also, it
is amazing how many of these people suddenly lose the ability to speak
English when the bus driver tells them they have to pay, or proffer a
£20 note, and then start arguing when the bus driver says they don't
have any change. If you use a Oyster card to make a PAYG journey on a
bus, does it show you the remaining balance just as it does on the
tube?

Why should it be surprising that some people aren't inclined to lend
any more to TfL, interest-free, than they are already forced to?

The previous journey may not have been on a bus. Many LU gates give
no information, and many more give it in a tiny window that you can't
see without holding up the queue.

Last time I got the wrong kind of bleep on a bus, it was when the card
had been overcharged uncapped without me realising, after I'd
calculated that I ought to have enough to reach the cap.

I was going to be back on a travelcard the next day, so why leave
excessive credit on the card?

In case you go out of the zones for which your Oystercard is valid?