Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

I arrived at a bus stop in front of King's Cross station this morning
planning to catch a 45 or 46 to Grays Inn Road. The 63 also calls at the
same stop but my destination was further from Farringdon Road so it seemed
better to stick to the Grays Inn Road routes.

When I arrived the first two buses shown on the Countdown screen were a 45
and a 46 (or vice versa) due in 4 or 5 minutes. Then a 63 appeared on the
screen as "due" and disappeared again. A few minutes later a 63 bus did
appear but wasn't showing on Countdown at all. Then a 45 showed as due and
disappeared without a bus turning up. No 45 or 46 bus came but it showed
several due in the next 5 minutes or so.

Then suddenly the screen changed, just after the 63 had left, with three
45s or 46s due, but only in 12 minutes! Then a 45 appeared after a couple
of minutes with Countdown showing the next bus due in 10 minutes.

?Que?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Nov 27, 6:38*pm, wrote:
I arrived at a bus stop in front of King's Cross station this morning
planning to catch a 45 or 46 to Grays Inn Road. The 63 also calls at the
same stop but my destination was further from Farringdon Road so it seemed
better to stick to the Grays Inn Road routes.

When I arrived the first two buses shown on the Countdown screen were a 45
and a 46 (or vice versa) due in 4 or 5 minutes. Then a 63 appeared on the
screen as "due" and disappeared again. A few minutes later a 63 bus did
appear but wasn't showing on Countdown at all. Then a 45 showed as due and
disappeared without a bus turning up. No 45 or 46 bus came but it showed
several due in the next 5 minutes or so.

Then suddenly the screen changed, just after the 63 had left, with three
45s or 46s due, but only in 12 minutes! Then a 45 appeared after a couple
of minutes with Countdown showing the next bus due in 10 minutes.

?Que?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Yes.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 12:38:34 -0600,
wrote:

I arrived at a bus stop in front of King's Cross station this morning
planning to catch a 45 or 46 to Grays Inn Road. The 63 also calls at
the same stop but my destination was further from Farringdon Road so it
seemed better to stick to the Grays Inn Road routes.

When I arrived the first two buses shown on the Countdown screen were a
45 and a 46 (or vice versa) due in 4 or 5 minutes. Then a 63 appeared
on the screen as "due" and disappeared again. A few minutes later a 63
bus did appear but wasn't showing on Countdown at all. Then a 45 showed
as due and disappeared without a bus turning up. No 45 or 46 bus came
but it showed several due in the next 5 minutes or so.

Then suddenly the screen changed, just after the 63 had left, with
three 45s or 46s due, but only in 12 minutes! Then a 45 appeared after
a couple of minutes with Countdown showing the next bus due in 10
minutes.

?Que?

Yes it can get confused. My guess is that because the 45 and 63 start
one stop earlier at St Pancras International there is something odd
about how it deals with reality against possibly using a scheduled
departure time (i.e. the timetable). I may, of course, be talking
complete nonsense!

I happened to see that the Countdown displays on Oxford Street outside
John Lewis were all happily displaying bus arrival times even though the
entire street was closed for the VIP event and no bus will turn up for
about another 2 hours!

The Cambridge real time bus information displays do distinguish real time
from timetable information which does reduce the confusion. Minutes to go
mean there is real time data, a clock time means it's just in the
timetable.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:29:26 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 12:38:34 -0600,
wrote:

I arrived at a bus stop in front of King's Cross station this morning
planning to catch a 45 or 46 to Grays Inn Road. The 63 also calls at the
same stop but my destination was further from Farringdon Road so it seemed
better to stick to the Grays Inn Road routes.

When I arrived the first two buses shown on the Countdown screen were a 45
and a 46 (or vice versa) due in 4 or 5 minutes. Then a 63 appeared on the
screen as "due" and disappeared again. A few minutes later a 63 bus did
appear but wasn't showing on Countdown at all. Then a 45 showed as due and
disappeared without a bus turning up. No 45 or 46 bus came but it showed
several due in the next 5 minutes or so.

Then suddenly the screen changed, just after the 63 had left, with three
45s or 46s due, but only in 12 minutes! Then a 45 appeared after a couple
of minutes with Countdown showing the next bus due in 10 minutes.

?Que?

Yes it can get confused. My guess is that because the 45 and 63 start
one stop earlier at St Pancras International there is something odd
about how it deals with reality against possibly using a scheduled
departure time (i.e. the timetable). I may, of course, be talking
complete nonsense!

Could there have been a diversion? I've experienced similar behaviour
from Countdown in Broad Green, Croydon while waiting for a northbound
60. There was one due within five minutes but disappeared from the
display, as did other routes' buses when their due times dropped to
3-4 mins or so. A 60 arrived about ten minutes later which was
consistent with it 'going the wrong way', and dropping off the radar
near West Croydon station, and its physical reappearance on the
correct route at a junction near me. A travel bulletin on the radio
announced that an earlier shooting had resulted in road closures in
the area.

I happened to see that the Countdown displays on Oxford Street outside
John Lewis were all happily displaying bus arrival times even though the
entire street was closed for the VIP event and no bus will turn up for
about another 2 hours!

Please say there were people queueing, looking at their watches and
tutting!

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Nov 28, 12:03*am, wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:
[Countdown]
Yes it can get confused. *My guess is that because the 45 and 63 start
one stop earlier at St Pancras International there is something odd
about how it deals with reality against possibly using a scheduled
departure time (i.e. the timetable). *I may, of course, be talking
complete nonsense!

I happened to see that the Countdown displays on Oxford Street outside
John Lewis were all happily displaying bus arrival times even though the
entire street was closed for the VIP event and no bus will turn up for
about another 2 hours!

The Cambridge real time bus information displays do distinguish real time
from timetable information which does reduce the confusion. Minutes to go
mean there is real time data, a clock time means it's just in the
timetable.

Are some buses just not plugged into the system at all in Cambridge
though?

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

In message , at 18:03:57
on Sat, 27 Nov 2010, remarked:
I happened to see that the Countdown displays on Oxford Street outside
John Lewis were all happily displaying bus arrival times even though the
entire street was closed for the VIP event and no bus will turn up for
about another 2 hours!

The Cambridge real time bus information displays do distinguish real time
from timetable information which does reduce the confusion. Minutes to go
mean there is real time data, a clock time means it's just in the
timetable.

That's a display convention used all over the country.
--
Roland Perry

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

In article ,
(Lewis A) wrote:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:29:26 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 12:38:34 -0600,
wrote:

I arrived at a bus stop in front of King's Cross station this morning
planning to catch a 45 or 46 to Grays Inn Road. The 63 also calls at
the same stop but my destination was further from Farringdon Road so
it seemed better to stick to the Grays Inn Road routes.

When I arrived the first two buses shown on the Countdown screen were
a 45 and a 46 (or vice versa) due in 4 or 5 minutes. Then a 63
appeared on the screen as "due" and disappeared again. A few minutes
later a 63 bus did appear but wasn't showing on Countdown at all. Then
a 45 showed as due and disappeared without a bus turning up. No 45 or
46 bus came but it showed several due in the next 5 minutes or so.

Then suddenly the screen changed, just after the 63 had left, with
three 45s or 46s due, but only in 12 minutes! Then a 45 appeared after
a couple of minutes with Countdown showing the next bus due in 10
minutes.

?Que?

Yes it can get confused. My guess is that because the 45 and 63 start
one stop earlier at St Pancras International there is something odd
about how it deals with reality against possibly using a scheduled
departure time (i.e. the timetable). I may, of course, be talking
complete nonsense!

Could there have been a diversion? I've experienced similar behaviour
from Countdown in Broad Green, Croydon while waiting for a northbound
60. There was one due within five minutes but disappeared from the
display, as did other routes' buses when their due times dropped to
3-4 mins or so. A 60 arrived about ten minutes later which was
consistent with it 'going the wrong way', and dropping off the radar
near West Croydon station, and its physical reappearance on the
correct route at a junction near me. A travel bulletin on the radio
announced that an earlier shooting had resulted in road closures in
the area.

I doubt it, honestly. The routes mainly start at King's Cross and there
were no signs of any on the route.

I happened to see that the Countdown displays on Oxford Street outside
John Lewis were all happily displaying bus arrival times even though
the entire street was closed for the VIP event and no bus will turn up
for about another 2 hours!

Please say there were people queueing, looking at their watches and
tutting!

No. There wasn't more than one other waiting with me. Most people got on
the 63. If you're going to Blackfriars as I more often am at that point,
it's just as good as the 45.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Nov 28, 10:35*am, wrote:

In article ,
(Lewis A) wrote:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:29:26 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

I happened to see that the Countdown displays on Oxford Street outside
John Lewis were all happily displaying bus arrival times even though
the entire street was closed for the VIP event and no bus will turn up
for about another 2 hours!

Please say there were people queueing, looking at their watches and
tutting!

No. There wasn't more than one other waiting with me. Most people got on
the 63. If you're going to Blackfriars as I more often am at that point,
it's just as good as the 45.

Or, indeed, south of the river - they run parallel from same route
from under Holborn Viaduct down to Elephant & Castle. They're used by
some commuters as a nifty way of getting to points north from
Southwark tube station.

The top-deck of the 63 provides some good views of the TL works at
Farringdon and also Blackfriars (if you cross the bridge on it).

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 09:56:13 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

That's a display convention used all over the country.

Except Milton Keynes, apparently. Another reason why it's a broken
waste of money.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

In message , at 11:05:26 on
Sun, 28 Nov 2010, Neil Williams
remarked:
That's a display convention used all over the country.

Except Milton Keynes, apparently. Another reason why it's a broken
waste of money.

What's different about Milton Keynes - the only variation that would
qualify as broken is a countdown based on the timetable rather than
actual running.
--
Roland Perry

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Nov 28, 12:03*am, wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:
[Countdown]
Yes it can get confused. *My guess is that because the 45 and 63
start one stop earlier at St Pancras International there is
something odd about how it deals with reality against possibly
using a scheduled departure time (i.e. the timetable). *I may, of
course, be talking complete nonsense!

I happened to see that the Countdown displays on Oxford Street
outside John Lewis were all happily displaying bus arrival times
even though the entire street was closed for the VIP event and no
bus will turn up for about another 2 hours!

The Cambridge real time bus information displays do distinguish real
time from timetable information which does reduce the confusion.
Minutes to go mean there is real time data, a clock time means it's
just in the timetable.

Are some buses just not plugged into the system at all in Cambridge
though?

At some stops, yes.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Nov 28, 11:05*am, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 09:56:13 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

That's a display convention used all over the country.

Except Milton Keynes, apparently. *Another reason why it's a broken
waste of money.

Is there a display? I seem to remember the displays being in place
about three years ago, saying that they were under test. Last time I
looked, they were still under test.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:35:28 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

What's different about Milton Keynes - the only variation that would
qualify as broken is a countdown based on the timetable rather than
actual running.

It only ever shows actual departure times rather than "N minutes", but
I'm informed by a few people who should know about such things that
the timetable is *not* loaded so these are based on actual running.

So you see:-

5 Lakes Estate 10:15

but the 10:15 is a generated real-time time, not a timetabled one.

I class this as broken because it breaks the convention used
everywhere else, so is confusing. It also means you have to look at
your watch!

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 05:13:18 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote:

Is there a display? I seem to remember the displays being in place
about three years ago, saying that they were under test. Last time I
looked, they were still under test.

They're "working" now. For some values of "working".

The whole thing was a mis-planned waste of money. As another example,
no displays are provided at the railway station, which is easily in
the top 4 busiest locations on the network. (This was supposedly
because of difficulty getting agreement on where to put them as much
of it isn't Council land, but such things are not insurmountable).

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Nov 28, 1:20*pm, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 05:13:18 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
Is there a display? *I seem to remember the displays being in place
about three years ago, saying that they were under test. *Last time I
looked, they were still under test.

They're "working" now. *For some values of "working".

The whole thing was a mis-planned waste of money. *As another example,
no displays are provided at the railway station, which is easily in
the top 4 busiest locations on the network. *(This was supposedly
because of difficulty getting agreement on where to put them as much
of it isn't Council land, but such things are not insurmountable).

I did wonder about that rather grand omission. But I would have
thought, er ... by the bus stops? One would have thought that it was
a yes/no question "can we put them by the bus stops?" rather any issue
of where.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

In message , at 13:18:17 on
Sun, 28 Nov 2010, Neil Williams
remarked:
What's different about Milton Keynes - the only variation that would
qualify as broken is a countdown based on the timetable rather than
actual running.

It only ever shows actual departure times rather than "N minutes", but
I'm informed by a few people who should know about such things that
the timetable is *not* loaded so these are based on actual running.

So you see:-

5 Lakes Estate 10:15

but the 10:15 is a generated real-time time, not a timetabled one.

I class this as broken because it breaks the convention used
everywhere else, so is confusing. It also means you have to look at
your watch!

The signs in Nottingham have a time on them. For some reason I took this
photo a couple of weeks ago (on the route heading out of the City
towards Trent Bridge): http://yfrog.com/73zb3012j

It was probably to illustrate the number of services available. In the
end I got a Premier 51/52, which isn't even included on the sign!
--
Roland Perry

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 05:27:44 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote:

I did wonder about that rather grand omission. But I would have
thought, er ... by the bus stops? One would have thought that it was
a yes/no question "can we put them by the bus stops?" rather any issue
of where.

The stops aren't of the new type, though, which is part of the issue.
The old, flimsy green ones don't have anywhere to put it, so it'd need
to go on a pole. And there's the plan to redevelop Station Square, if
it ever happens.

Ideally, there'd be a main departure board at each of the main
locations, including inside the station. There are a few in the
shopping centre, but I can't think of any others.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:41:55 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

The signs in Nottingham have a time on them. For some reason I took this
photo a couple of weeks ago (on the route heading out of the City
towards Trent Bridge): http://yfrog.com/73zb3012j

As I think others have posted, the usual convention is that if it's a
timetabled time, it is shown as the time, but if it's real-time it's
shown as a number of minutes.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

In message , at 14:04:26 on
Sun, 28 Nov 2010, Neil Williams
remarked:
As I think others have posted, the usual convention is that if it's a
timetabled time, it is shown as the time, but if it's real-time it's
shown as a number of minutes.

That's also for signs which show one or the other at different times of
day, or for different buses (depending on how well they are tracking the
buses at the time).

It sounds like the Milton Keynes ones show the time, always. But it's
going to be fairly obvious that it's not showing the timetable because
you can compare it to the timetable you are expecting and it's quite
likely to be a minute or two before or after at random.
--
Roland Perry

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Nov 28, 8:00*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:04:26 on
Sun, 28 Nov 2010, Neil Williams
remarked:

As I think others have posted, the usual convention is that if it's a
timetabled time, it is shown as the time, but if it's real-time it's
shown as a number of minutes.

That's also for signs which show one or the other at different times of
day, or for different buses (depending on how well they are tracking the
buses at the time).

It sounds like the Milton Keynes ones show the time, always. But it's
going to be fairly obvious that it's not showing the timetable because
you can compare it to the timetable you are expecting and it's quite
likely to be a minute or two before or after at random.
--
Roland Perry

Maybe it's because in Milton Keynes, they've recognised that the
timetable is of absolutely no relevance. Buses sometimes turn up;
that's about all one can say, so something telling what time that may
happen is a bonus.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 04:35:05 -0600,
wrote:
I doubt it, honestly. The routes mainly start at King's Cross and there
were no signs of any on the route.

I'm not familiar with buses in the area, but it appears that both
routes start west of St P. on Midland Road. So for buses to report as
'due' and not turn up, according to my theory they must surely have
been at, or close to that first bus stop, and then unable to turn left
into Euston Road, which isn't very likely. Sorry 'bout that, in my
limited experience of Countdown problems it's either not been working
at all, or there've been diversions.

I happened to see that the Countdown displays on Oxford Street outside
John Lewis were all happily displaying bus arrival times even though
the entire street was closed for the VIP event and no bus will turn up
for about another 2 hours!

Please say there were people queueing, looking at their watches and
tutting!

No. There wasn't more than one other waiting with me. Most people got on
the 63. If you're going to Blackfriars as I more often am at that point,
it's just as good as the 45.

I only mentioned it because I recently stood tutting away for about
12-15 minutes waiting for a diverted 319 before noticing the 'bus stop
not in use' sign (a nearby street light was out). Both routes' buses
were happily running in the other direction, too!

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

The whole thing was a mis-planned waste of money. *As another example,
no displays are provided at the railway station, which is easily in
the top 4 busiest locations on the network. *(This was supposedly
because of difficulty getting agreement on where to put them as much
of it isn't Council land, but such things are not insurmountable).

About 6 years ago (maybe longer), Portsmouth introduced a similar
system on key routes in the city. These screens were almost always
displaying "System under test" messages until about two years ago,
when they went blank.

Earlier this year, all of the "high tech" shelters (which also
featured a cut-down web browser with travel and local information)
were ripped out and replaced with standard affairs. Quite how many
millions this cost is anyone's guess. Whether it was a problem with
the bus-mounted equipment, or the backroom infrastructure is a
mystery, but there was an outcry in the local press...

(sorry for being off-region, yet on-topic!)

M

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

Couldn't TfL arrange to use the Countdown music for Countdown?

As the bus pulls up the the music would go DA-DA, DA-DA, DADDLY-DA,
BOO!! Doors open.

Is Countdown usually this confused?
 

On Nov 29, 1:13*pm, Offramp wrote:
Couldn't TfL arrange to use the Countdown music for Countdown?

As the bus pulls up the the music would go DA-DA, DA-DA, DADDLY-DA,
BOO!! Doors open.

Inspired! Made me smile for the first time today, that did!