"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £60m a year"
 

http://www.londonnet.co.uk/news/2010...-blunders.html

Ian

--

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £60m a
 

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 12:39:50 -0000
"Ian F." wrote:
http://www.londonnet.co.uk/news/2010...60m-year-passe
gers-barrier-blunders.html

Well thats deliberate. In any sane system the exit gates wouldn't open for
you if you hadn't touched in so you'd have to go to the excess fares window
and find out why. The fact that they do means TfL are quite happy to collect
the extra revenue knowing most people either won't spot it or can't be
bothered with the fuss of claiming the money back.

B2003

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £60m a
 

On Dec 7, 12:46*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 12:39:50 -0000

"Ian F." wrote:
http://www.londonnet.co.uk/news/2010...kim-%C2%A360m-...
gers-barrier-blunders.html

Well thats deliberate. In any sane system the exit gates wouldn't *open for
you if you hadn't touched in so you'd have to go to the excess fares window
and find out why. The fact that they do means TfL are quite happy to collect
the extra revenue knowing most people either won't spot it or can't be
bothered with the fuss of claiming the money back.

B2003

They are also happy to collect the extra revenue that accrues during a
period of disruption, where passengers have to make alternative
arrangements. Last week I made a post about a journey from Central
London to Tottenham Hale when Tottenham Hale was closed due to the
tube strike. Passengers were advised to alight at Seven Sisters and
take a bus, but anyone on Oyster PAYG would have to touch out at Seven
Sisters and touch in on the bus, thereby incurring an extra fare.

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:36:51 -0800 (PST)
Paul wrote:
take a bus, but anyone on Oyster PAYG would have to touch out at Seven
Sisters and touch in on the bus, thereby incurring an extra fare.

Yes, it does make me laugh when i hear "buses are accepting tickets" being
mentioned by official channels. Since when does a bus NOT accept an Oyster
or travelcard?

I'd also just love someone at TfL to explain why flat fares are ok for the
buses but not the tube. I suspect I'll never get a sensible answer to that
one.

B2003

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

wrote in message

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:36:51 -0800 (PST)
Paul wrote:
take a bus, but anyone on Oyster PAYG would have to touch out at
Seven Sisters and touch in on the bus, thereby incurring an extra
fare.

Yes, it does make me laugh when i hear "buses are accepting tickets"
being mentioned by official channels. Since when does a bus NOT
accept an Oyster or travelcard?

I'd also just love someone at TfL to explain why flat fares are ok
for the buses but not the tube. I suspect I'll never get a sensible
answer to that one.

Because most bus routes are relatively short, and most bus journeys
shorter still (as progress is so slow). You can go short or long
distances on the Tube -- would you prefer it if every Tube journey,
however short, cost £2.50 on Oyster, or £3.50 in cash?

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

On Dec 7, 1:56*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:36:51 -0800 (PST)

Paul wrote:
take a bus, but anyone on Oyster PAYG would have to touch out at Seven
Sisters and touch in on the bus, thereby incurring an extra fare.

Yes, it does make me laugh when i hear "buses are accepting tickets" being
mentioned by official channels. Since when does a bus NOT accept an Oyster
or travelcard?

I'd also just love someone at TfL to explain why flat fares are ok for the
buses but not the tube. I suspect I'll never get a sensible answer to that
one.

B2003

But surely, in those circumstances, where Oyster pay as you go is
being used, it is important NOT to swipe the card on the bus, in just
the same way that when I am transferred from a short-running bus to
the one behind, I NEVER swipe my card. Nobody has yet questioned my
refusal!

Marc.

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

On 07/12/2010 13:56, d wrote:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:36:51 -0800 (PST)
wrote:
take a bus, but anyone on Oyster PAYG would have to touch out at Seven
Sisters and touch in on the bus, thereby incurring an extra fare.

Yes, it does make me laugh when i hear "buses are accepting tickets" being
mentioned by official channels. Since when does a bus NOT accept an Oyster
or travelcard?

Buses don't normally accept rail-based transport tickets, but they do
during disruption. The drivers don't always seem to get told, but
usually take the hint when a huge number of ticket-waving passengers
show up at once saying the same thing.

The signs on buses saying something to the effect of "valid tickets
accepted" do puzzle me.

I'd also just love someone at TfL to explain why flat fares are ok for the
buses but not the tube. I suspect I'll never get a sensible answer to that
one.

I'm not from TfL, but possible reasons are longer journey possibilities
on the Underground (give or take the X26 bus), inter-availability with
National Rail, and demand management - it is worth encouraging people
not to use the Underground for short trips (eg in Zone 1) if they don't
need to.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

On Dec 7, 6:53*pm, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 07/12/2010 13:56, wrote:

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 05:36:51 -0800 (PST)
*wrote:
take a bus, but anyone on Oyster PAYG would have to touch out at Seven
Sisters and touch in on the bus, thereby incurring an extra fare.

Yes, it does make me laugh when i hear "buses are accepting tickets" being
mentioned by official channels. Since when does a bus NOT accept an Oyster
or travelcard?

Buses don't normally accept rail-based transport tickets, but they do
during disruption. The drivers don't always seem to get told, but
usually take the hint when a huge number of ticket-waving passengers
show up at once saying the same thing.

The signs on buses saying something to the effect of "valid tickets
accepted" do puzzle me.

I'd also just love someone at TfL to explain why flat fares are ok for the
buses but not the tube. I suspect I'll never get a sensible answer to that
one.

I'm not from TfL, but possible reasons are longer journey possibilities
on the Underground (give or take the X26 bus), inter-availability with
National Rail, and demand management - it is worth encouraging people
not to use the Underground for short trips (eg in Zone 1) if they don't
need to.

But there is no such thing as an LU ticket unless someone has been
ripped off for the cash fare.

So you either pay £4 and get the bus for free, or you pay £1.80 and
get the bus for £1.20.

Unless all buses charge £0 PAYG during LU disruption?

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

In message , Recliner
writes

Because most bus routes are relatively short, and most bus journeys
shorter still (as progress is so slow). You can go short or long
distances on the Tube -- would you prefer it if every Tube journey,
however short, cost £2.50 on Oyster, or £3.50 in cash?

That would be quite a bargain for some, given that the minimum cash fare
in Zone 1 is already £4 :)

In reality, for a flat fare on the tube to generate the same total
income as zonal fares, there would need to be a huge rise in the cost of
short journeys and a dramatic fall in the cost of long journeys. The
latter would cause a huge shift from NR to the tube for long commutes,
as the tube would become significantly cheaper, even if a little slower.
This in turn would have disastrous implications for passengers living
closer to the centre, who would find trains already loaded to capacity
when they arrived.

This doesn't happen with buses, of course, because of the shorter routes
and slow journey times.
--
Paul Terry

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 10:23:19 -0800 (PST)
" wrote:
But surely, in those circumstances, where Oyster pay as you go is
being used, it is important NOT to swipe the card on the bus, in just
the same way that when I am transferred from a short-running bus to
the one behind, I NEVER swipe my card. Nobody has yet questioned my
refusal!

Well your lucky then. On the odd occasions when I use a bus the driver is
always carefully watching to make sure everyone does swipe. In fact I'd
suggest its easier to dodge the fare on the tube than on a bus using the
old follow someone closely through the gate trick.

B2003

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 14:20:42 -0000
"Recliner" wrote:
Because most bus routes are relatively short, and most bus journeys
shorter still (as progress is so slow). You can go short or long

Slow or not its just as vital for some people as the tube is for others
especially if you're making a through the suburbs journey rather than
into the city centre.

distances on the Tube -- would you prefer it if every Tube journey,
however short, cost £2.50 on Oyster, or £3.50 in cash?

Frankly yes. 2.50 sounds reasonable since as has been pointed out, most
people don't use the tube for short journeys anyway. And since LU seem
keen to make the zoning system increasingly meaningless by not allowing
people to buy only certain zone combinations anymore and are now
charging for going through zone 1 even if you go around in zone 2 say
on the NLL a lot more people would benefit than lose out I reckon.
Flat fares work in New York so they can quite easily work here.

B2003

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 09:30:22 +0000
Paul Terry wrote:
short journeys and a dramatic fall in the cost of long journeys. The
latter would cause a huge shift from NR to the tube for long commutes,

I doubt it. If you live in Potters Bar are you really going to drive to
cockfosters, spend 20 mins finding a parking spot and then trundle in to work
on the piccadilly line just to save 50 quid or whatever a month? I don't think
so. The only time it might happen are where the tube and rail station are
integrated and both offer a service into london, such as at amersham or west
ruislip.

B2003

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

In message , d
writes

most people don't use the tube for short journeys anyway

That's the end of the Waterloo and City, and its 9+ million passengers a
year, then.

Not to mention all of the other short hops of a few stations on the tube
that commuters make daily to get between mainline terminals and their
work.

Make the Christmas shoppers walk from Victoria to Oxford Street, that's
what I say!
--
Paul Terry

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 11:42:53 +0000
Paul Terry wrote:
In message , d
writes

most people don't use the tube for short journeys anyway

That's the end of the Waterloo and City, and its 9+ million passengers a
year, then.

Which is less than 1% of the billion in total who used the system last year.
Which part of the word "most" is confusing you?

Not to mention all of the other short hops of a few stations on the tube
that commuters make daily to get between mainline terminals and their
work.

Still a tiny percentage compared to the number who commute in from the
suburbs on the tube.

B2003

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

In message , d
writes

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 11:42:53 +0000
Paul Terry wrote:

Not to mention all of the other short hops of a few stations on the tube
that commuters make daily to get between mainline terminals and their
work.

Still a tiny percentage compared to the number who commute in from the
suburbs on the tube.

More people commute into London by National Rail (34%) than by tube
(32%), and the average tube journey is only 13 minutes in length, so I
doubt your statistics.

However, supposing for a moment that you were right and that the
overwhelming number of tube passengers were commuters from the suburbs,
that would push-up the average fare considerably - your "flat fare" for
even a short tube ride is then going to be nearer a fiver.

--
Paul Terry

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

In article , d
writes


That's the end of the Waterloo and City, and its 9+ million passengers a
year, then.

Not to mention all of the other short hops of a few stations on the tube
that commuters make daily to get between mainline terminals and their
work.

Still a tiny percentage compared to the number who commute in from the
suburbs on the tube.

But presumably those going from mainline terminals to their work
have through tickets from their home NR station to their destination
(or its zone), and don't pay the exorbitant "single" fares.
--
Bill Borland

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

"Bill Borland" wrote in message
...
In article , d
writes


That's the end of the Waterloo and City, and its 9+ million passengers a
year, then.

Not to mention all of the other short hops of a few stations on the tube
that commuters make daily to get between mainline terminals and their
work.

Still a tiny percentage compared to the number who commute in from the
suburbs on the tube.

But presumably those going from mainline terminals to their work
have through tickets from their home NR station to their destination
(or its zone), and don't pay the exorbitant "single" fares.

You obviously haven't looked at the fares.

If you buy a daily ticket from outside of London to "zone 1" the add on fare
IS the exorbitant "single" fare, so no-one with an oyster card would ever
buy it!

tim

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £
 

On 2010-12-08 10:01:06 +0000, d said:

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 09:30:22 +0000
Paul Terry wrote:
short journeys and a dramatic fall in the cost of long journeys. The
latter would cause a huge shift from NR to the tube for long commutes,

I doubt it. If you live in Potters Bar are you really going to drive to
cockfosters, spend 20 mins finding a parking spot and then trundle in to work
on the piccadilly line just to save 50 quid or whatever a month? I don't think
so. The only time it might happen are where the tube and rail station are
integrated and both offer a service into london, such as at amersham or west
ruislip.

B2003

My father used to do exactly that! Well, not quite Potters Bar but he
lived nearer to there than to Cockfosters. It wasn't about money - he
swore blind that the Piccadilly Line was more reliable than BR. I
suspect the tables have been turned now.

"Oyster Card barrier blunders cost passengers £60m a year"
 

On 7 Dec, 12:39, "Ian F." wrote:
http://www.londonnet.co.uk/news/2010...kim-%C2%A360m-...

Ian

--

It's about time Trading Standards were bought into this, TfL have been
ripping passengers off left right and centre with this shambolic
Oystercard system.

It does work perfectly well on buses and Tramlink where a simple flat
fare is deducted at the start of the journey but having been
overcharged on LU, and spent a considerable time at ticket office
windows getting reimbursed, I now stick with paper tickets for rail
journies and would advise others to do the same.