See:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=870_1293539979

Would anybody seriously suggest this is acceptable?

On Jan 5, 11:32*am, George wrote:
See:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=870_1293539979

Would anybody seriously suggest this is acceptable?

If that is the route 25 at Stratford video shot on Boxing Day then no
it is not really acceptable. The bit you conveniently miss is that
there was industrial action on the tube that day that caused such
excessive demand for buses to central London. As the 25 is the only
direct option from Stratford then I'd have to ask what else would be
expected? People will typically adopt a herd mentality and similar
scenes have been seen on other LUL strike days with double deckers
just as badly affected. I therefore fail to see the relevance of your
post title about it being "an argument" against bendy buses.

I have recently been to Hong Kong where I stood and watched one of the
highest demand locations for buses in the entire place during the PM
peak. This is Hung Hom in Kowloon near the Cross Harbour Tunnel. The
queues for buses stretch right along the bus stop area, up flights of
stairs, across a bridge and into the adjacent railway station. I stood
and observed people crushing into 12m double deck buses to the point
where people were jammed against the windscreen and people were jammed
against the front doors - when the driver could actually close them!
This was standard practice for bus after bus after bus and many routes
operate on higher frequencies than London. This "keep on loading"
attitude applied even when the next bus was clearly in sight and
waiting to get on the stop - if only the one that people were still
trying to get on would actually leave!

Ironically in one photo I took it is clear that "seats were available
on the upper deck" but even HK commuters don't always go upstairs.
Whether a bendy bus would be any better or worse I can't say. What I
can say is that double deckers - even very high capacity HK style ones
as often touted as the solution for route 25 - can be just as crowded
as your Stratford video. Therefore I don't see that one vehicle type
is necessarily any better than any other in such extreme
circumstances.

--
Paul C
via Google

On Jan 5, 11:32*am, George wrote:
See:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=870_1293539979

Would anybody seriously suggest this is acceptable?

You don't queue for a bendy bus. You can't as it has three doors.

On Jan 5, 1:04*pm, Offramp wrote:
On Jan 5, 11:32*am, George wrote:

See:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=870_1293539979

Would anybody seriously suggest this is acceptable?

You don't queue for a bendy bus. You can't as it has three doors.

I had to go from my house in Walthamstow to Waterloo on Boxing Day,
and it involved a creative use of bus routes in order to get the-

W15 to Bakers Arms
55 to Southampton Row
59 to Waterloo.

Advantage in using the 55 was that it starts from the Bakers Arms and
therefore I was able to get on. it got progressively more crowded, and
at Shoreditch someone tried to get on through the centre doors, saying
they had been waiting for over an hour and every bus was full. So
Yes, I agree that the video is not an argument against the bendy
buses.

However, the number of people on the bus was clearly in excess of
capacity, to dangerous limits. Suppose there had been an accident? I
remember being in a similar situation at Trafalgar Square in the early
hours of New Years day before the tube ran all night. The driver of
the bus (an N26) refused to move off and called the police, who
ordered several people, including me, off the bus.

I suppose it did not help that there were Engineering Works on the DLR
between Stratford and Bow Church on that day, otherwise people could
have used the DLR to get at least part of the way into London

That video was taken at Stratford Broadway if I am not mistaken. You
could have walked for a few stops in the opposite direction towards
Forest Gate in order to stand more of a chance of being able to
board..

However, it was interesting that a 425 drew up behind the bendy bus.

You could have got on the 425 to go to Bow Church to

(a) pick up the DLR or
(b) pick up the the no. 8 or 205 buses, both of which start from Bow
Church

Alternatively you could have stayed on the 425 to :-

(a) Homerton Hospital and then the 242

or (b) Clapton Pond and then the 38.

In London, it does pay to have alternative routes up your sleeve in
case the tube is disrupted.

I am no fan of bendybuses, but would put forward this appalling video
as much stronger evidence for banning Bob Crowe and his ilk!

M.M.

On Jan 5, 6:10*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 05:39:38 -0800 (PST), Paul
wrote:

That video was taken at Stratford Broadway if I am not mistaken. You
could have walked for a few stops in the opposite direction towards
Forest Gate in order to stand more of a chance of being able to
board..

You are not mistaken - it's exactly where it is. You are also completely
correct that walking back a couple of stops might have afforded more
opportunity to board. However I repeat my earlier comment about herd
mentality. * The vast majority of people can only cope with one or
possibly two travel scenarios. As soon as something goes wrong with
their preferred option they are unable to function. *Whenever there is a
Victoria Line problem that knocks out the Walthamstow end you can
guarantee that almost everyone will just stand at the station for the
bus. Only very few people walk back one stop before the station to board
the 123 to Seven Sisters.

However, it was interesting that a 425 drew up behind the bendy bus.

You could have got on the 425 to go to Bow Church to

(a) pick up the DLR or
(b) pick up the the no. 8 or 205 buses, both of which start from Bow
Church

This is exactly what I thought when I saw the 425 behind. *I instantly
computed the 205 option but had assumed a change at Mile End as my brain
has not adjusted to it starting from Bow garage. *All of your options
are perfectly valid though.

In London, it does pay to have alternative routes up your sleeve in
case the tube is disrupted.

Absolutely - I have a load of them which I can switch between in order
to keep moving when the usual options fail for whatever reason.
Maintaining momentum is the thing that ensures you don't get cross when
the tube or the buses conk out.
--
Paul C

I can remember a couple of years ago when I was working in Docklands
and had to get to an office near South Quay. I arrived at Stratford at
8:10am to find that both the DLR and the Jubilee Line were suspended.
I got on the Central Line one stop to Mile End, and then the D6 bus.
This took 25 minutes, which is not much more than the end to end
journey on the DLR. Meanwhile colleagues at work were arriving at 10am
complaining that they were stuck at Stratford for an hour.

Returning to the original topic, I do think that the bendy bus was
dangerously overcrowded. I don't know that there is an easy answer -
the bus driver could have asked people to get off, but how many would
have complied?

On Wed, Jan 05, 2011 at 03:32:31AM -0800, George wrote:

See:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=870_1293539979
Would anybody seriously suggest this is acceptable?

No, people thinking that they need to travel on Boxing Day is not
acceptable. It's a bank holiday, so the vast majority don't need to go
to work, and anyone going shopping should be shot on general principles.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club"

Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla.

On Jan 5, 11:32*am, George wrote:
See:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=870_1293539979

Would anybody seriously suggest this is acceptable?

At least one "unacceptable" thing is the behaviour of those trying to
get on. No one is forcing all those people on to the bus: they are
forcing themselves. In similar circumstances, I tend to say "forget
it" and come to some other arrangement (walk, wait for next bus,
whatever). It's much less stressful and reduces the risk of not being
able to get out again at the correct stop!

PhilD

--

"George" wrote in message
news:1be74c41-8e52-4b14-b692-

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=870_1293539979

Would anybody seriously suggest this is acceptable?

I assume it's an American website, given their use of 'cockneys'.

Ian

On 5 Jan, 12:01, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Jan 5, 11:32*am, George wrote:

See:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=870_1293539979

Would anybody seriously suggest this is acceptable?

If that is the route 25 at Stratford video shot on Boxing Day then no
it is not really acceptable. The bit you conveniently miss is that
there was industrial action on the tube that day that caused such
excessive demand for buses to central London. *As the 25 is the only
direct option from Stratford then I'd have to ask what else would be
expected? *People will typically adopt a herd mentality and similar
scenes have been seen on other LUL strike days with double deckers
just as badly affected. I therefore fail to see the relevance of your
post title about it being "an argument" against bendy buses.

I have recently been to Hong Kong where I stood and watched one of the
highest demand locations for buses in the entire place during the PM
peak. This is Hung Hom in Kowloon near the Cross Harbour Tunnel. The
queues for buses stretch right along the bus stop area, up flights of
stairs, across a bridge and into the adjacent railway station. I stood
and observed people crushing into 12m double deck buses to the point
where people were jammed against the windscreen and people were jammed
against the front doors - when the driver could actually close them!
This was standard practice for bus after bus after bus and many routes
operate on higher frequencies than London. This "keep on loading"
attitude applied even when the next bus was clearly in sight and
waiting to get on the stop - if only the one that people were still
trying to get on would actually leave!

Ironically in one photo I took it is clear that "seats were available
on the upper deck" but even HK commuters don't always go upstairs.
Whether a bendy bus would be any better or worse I can't say. *What I
can say is that double deckers - even very high capacity HK style ones
as often touted as the solution for route 25 - can be just as crowded
as your Stratford video. *Therefore I don't see that one vehicle type
is necessarily any better than any other in such extreme
circumstances.

--
Paul C
via Google

Yes I appreciate that there was a tube strike and it was exceptional
circumstances however such scenes are not unheard of on the 25, and
other bendy bus routes, in normal circumstances.

At least on other buses there is some sort of order, the driver or
conductor has some sort of control over how many people try and get
on.

I would imagine the loads on the buses that you mention in Hong Kong
would seriously restrict the drivers visibility whilst driving and I
would imagine that, as with London, it is more a case of standing
passengers on the lower deck preventing other people from getting to
the staircase to go upstairs.

Oh well let's see whether the Borismaster offers any improvements when
it hits the streets.