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Wobbly Oystercard charges
In message , David
Cantrell writes On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 07:01:51PM +0000, Paul Terry wrote: 0845 is not premium rate (unless you have an exceptionally bad telco). It jolly well is premium rate, if you use a mobile. Which is why I wrote "Mobile phone companies may vary" in the part that you conveniently snipped! -- Paul Terry |
Wobbly Oystercard charges
In message , at 11:57:29
on Mon, 24 Jan 2011, David Cantrell remarked: 0845 is not premium rate (unless you have an exceptionally bad telco). It jolly well is premium rate, if you use a mobile. It's "more expensive" which is not the definition of "Premium Rate". -- Roland Perry |
Wobbly Oystercard charges
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Wobbly Oystercard charges
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Wobbly Oystercard charges
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 12:23:56PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:57:29 on Mon, 24 Jan 2011, David Cantrell remarked: 0845 is not premium rate (unless you have an exceptionally bad telco). It jolly well is premium rate, if you use a mobile. It's "more expensive" which is not the definition of "Premium Rate". It's not merely "more expensive". It's "a lot more expensive". It costs more than several 09whatever numbers do to call from a land line. Therefore it is premium rate. That's premium rate by sensible definitions, as opposed to OFCOM's definition. -- David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic It's my experience that neither users nor customers can articulate what it is they want, nor can they evaluate it when they see it -- Alan Cooper |
Wobbly Oystercard charges
In message , at 11:13:36
on Tue, 25 Jan 2011, David Cantrell remarked: 0845 is not premium rate (unless you have an exceptionally bad telco). It jolly well is premium rate, if you use a mobile. It's "more expensive" which is not the definition of "Premium Rate". It's not merely "more expensive". It's "a lot more expensive". It costs more than several 09whatever numbers do to call from a land line. I often feel that people have been lulled into a sense of false security by so many "bundled minutes" plans on mobiles (and fixed line phones have them too these days). The underlying cost of mobile calls is *much* greater than landline ones, that's just something we have to live with. My provider (Virgin PAYG) would charge you 31p a minute to call a geographic landline, for example. Therefore it is premium rate. That's premium rate by sensible definitions, as opposed to OFCOM's definition. OFCOM's definitions are there for a reason - so that we can all distinguish between the different kinds of number. And Premium Rate numbers are there primarily for the revenue stream and have stronger regulation as a result. It's that aspect which distinguishes them, not the price as-such. 0845, 0870 etc numbers have fundamentally different characteristics, and thus a different name. (If you want a transport analogy it'd be like calling Eurostar a "tube train". The Chunnel is a tube, isn't it?) -- Roland Perry |
Wobbly Oystercard charges
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:30:00AM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
I often feel that people have been lulled into a sense of false security by so many "bundled minutes" plans on mobiles (and fixed line phones have them too these days). The underlying cost of mobile calls is *much* greater than landline ones, that's just something we have to live with. But there's no reason why calls to 080 numbers can't at least be included in bundled minutes, aside from profiteering on the part of the mobile phone company. I don't see any reason why calls to 0845 numbers can't be included either, perhaps with a multiplier so that each minute of call "costs" 2 bundled minutes, or whatever, if the costs involved really are so much higher than calls to, for example, other networks' mobiles (which *are* included in bundled minutes). Again, that I have to pay eleventy squillion pence a minute looks like profiteering, on both the part of the mobile phone companies and TfL. -- David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire Do not be afraid of cooking, as your ingredients will know and misbehave -- Fergus Henderson |
Wobbly Oystercard charges
In message , at 11:50:36
on Wed, 26 Jan 2011, David Cantrell remarked: I often feel that people have been lulled into a sense of false security by so many "bundled minutes" plans on mobiles (and fixed line phones have them too these days). The underlying cost of mobile calls is *much* greater than landline ones, that's just something we have to live with. But there's no reason why calls to 080 numbers can't at least be included in bundled minutes, aside from profiteering on the part of the mobile phone company. OFCOM is currently consulting on proposals to make 0800 free from mobiles. I don't see any reason why calls to 0845 numbers can't be included either, perhaps with a multiplier so that each minute of call "costs" 2 bundled minutes, or whatever, if the costs involved really are so much higher than calls to, for example, other networks' mobiles (which *are* included in bundled minutes). From my time in the mobile phone industry, the charging scheme tends to be built around what the billing system will allow you to do. So having different "consumption rates" of bundled minute is probably not something they can cope with - otherwise it would probably have been done by now. Again, that I have to pay eleventy squillion pence a minute looks like profiteering, on both the part of the mobile phone companies and TfL. All calls cost almost zero, on a marginal cost basis. What ends up on the price list is a complex combination of amortising network build costs, what other operators charge you at the interconnects, and what the market will stand. -- Roland Perry |
Wobbly Oystercard charges
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:19:13AM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
From my time in the mobile phone industry, the charging scheme tends to be built around what the billing system will allow you to do. So having different "consumption rates" of bundled minute is probably not something they can cope with - otherwise it would probably have been done by now. Hmmph. From *my* time in the phone industry (admittedly this was mostly wholesale, with some landlines) the billing system can be very flexible indeed. Perhaps they should write some better billing software. -- David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it -- Agatha Christie |
Wobbly Oystercard charges
In message , at 11:32:02
on Fri, 28 Jan 2011, David Cantrell remarked: From my time in the mobile phone industry, the charging scheme tends to be built around what the billing system will allow you to do. So having different "consumption rates" of bundled minute is probably not something they can cope with - otherwise it would probably have been done by now. Hmmph. From *my* time in the phone industry (admittedly this was mostly wholesale, with some landlines) the billing system can be very flexible indeed. Perhaps they should write some better billing software. They do - for example the whole PAYG platform, rather than monthly subscriptions, was new. Nevertheless, any billing system needs "levers to pull" (to implement a fancy new charging scheme[1]) and if they aren't there, the marketing people have to think again. [1] Brainstorm: maybe something like "all calls to someone you've already called for more than half an hour that day are half price". Of course, one you've got the levers in place, you can tinker with the "half hour" and the "half price" (and perhaps even the "that day", although I wouldn't put it past the IT people to take that literally and hard code it in) until the cows come home - but the billing system needs to support that model. -- Roland Perry |
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