Two Oyster pickups at one
 

On Feb 7, 9:37*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:52:09 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 19:07:44 on
Mon, 7 Feb 2011, Paul Corfield remarked:

On Mon, 7 Feb 2011 16:53:51 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've got a mystery £6 "operational issue" credit, and a £5 top-up (so
that it activates online journey history) to pick up tomorrow. Will they
both leap aboard in one swipe?

No idea but I suspect it rather depends if they are both programmed for
the same gateline.

I did ask for the same gateline for both.

And where is St Pancras (National Rail) - is that any of the KX/StP tube
barriers, or only the ones at the western ticket hall?

I would imagine that it is actually the Thameslink gateline in St
Pancras itself.

The LU Kings Cross ticket halls are (or were) Tube (the old one we all
know and love), Western (over the Met / Circle lines)

which is in St Pancras

Oh dear. Why do I reply to Roland Perry? *It is not in St Pancras. It is
underneath the front undercroft. The boundary to St Pancras is very
clearly where the arches and very large doors are - at the western end
of the Western ticket hall..

I spend too much of my life having to look at lease plans of tube
stations showing property boundaries so I tend to know what I am
referring to.

and Northern (the new one linked to St Pancras Int).

which as you say feels a bit like it's in St Pancras, even if it's
actually the KX side of the road.

No I didn't. It is connected via escalators and a long corridor - as you
know better than most of us.

Oh and don't forget Pentonville Road.

Indeed. Which reminds me of the Oyster validators that used to be at the
end of the tunnel. I don't suppose you can pick things up from them?

There are no validators. They've gone. I deliberately checked the last
time I used the Pentonville Rd entrance and link tunnel.

Thanks for confirmation of that - they're raison d'être no longer
exists so it makes sense.

Out of curiosity, any idea how well patronised the Pentonville Rd exit
is these days since Thameslink went? I can see it is used of course,
just wondering how well used it is overall (the publicly available
entry/exit metrics just agglomorates all together) - though I guess it
acts as a rather useful pressure valve for the station complex at busy
times so isn't likely to be at threat of closure (perhaps I should
keep quiet lest I give certain people ideas!).

And a side question - in LU internal terminology do you use the term
'exit', 'entrance' or something else - or does it just vary depending
on the context and what colour the sky is that day?

Two Oyster pickups at one
 

On Feb 7, 10:53*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 21:37:37
on Mon, 7 Feb 2011, Paul Corfield remarked:

The LU Kings Cross ticket halls are (or were) Tube (the old one we all
know and love), Western (over the Met / Circle lines)

which is in St Pancras

Oh dear. Why do I reply to Roland Perry? *It is not in St Pancras. It is
underneath the front undercroft. The boundary to St Pancras is very
clearly where the arches and very large doors are - at the western end
of the Western ticket hall..

I spend too much of my life having to look at lease plans of tube
stations showing property boundaries so I tend to know what I am
referring to.

I do have to object to this somewhat, as the western ticket hall is much
more within the rectangular footprint of St Pancras (which I would also
think the general public understood to go all the way to the main road)
than it is anywhere near Kings Cross.

The northern ticket hall will be within the KX footprint once it's all
finished, there's no doubt about that.

I'd agree with the broad notion that the Western (SSL, Met/Circle)
ticket hall is kinda in/under St Pancras station, situated as it is in
the old undercroft, but that doesn't mean the Underground station is
named simply 'St Pancras'.

I note your pick-up location is "St Pancras (National Rail)" - where
'National Rail' is specified in the name of the location, then that
means it's the NR gateline as opposed to the LU one.

Two Oyster pickups at one
 

On 07/02/2011 18:54, Paul Scott wrote:

AIUI yes, you'd have probably seen the three choices, and probably Kings
Cross [NR] next to them.

Having opted to pick up a top-up from Kings Cross recently, there's now
just one entry which apparently covers Kings Cross (Suburban), and all
three of the LU gatelines, and presumably the new gateline in the main
trainshed.

Presumably the St Pancras entry covers the FCC, EMT and SET gatelines.

Cheers,

Barry

Two Oyster pickups at one
 

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Feb 7, 10:53*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 21:37:37
on Mon, 7 Feb 2011, Paul Corfield remarked:

The LU Kings Cross ticket halls are (or were) Tube (the old one we
all know and love), Western (over the Met / Circle lines)

which is in St Pancras

Oh dear. Why do I reply to Roland Perry? *It is not in St Pancras. It
is underneath the front undercroft. The boundary to St Pancras is
very clearly where the arches and very large doors are - at the
western end of the Western ticket hall..

I spend too much of my life having to look at lease plans of tube
stations showing property boundaries so I tend to know what I am
referring to.

I do have to object to this somewhat, as the western ticket hall is
much more within the rectangular footprint of St Pancras (which I
would also think the general public understood to go all the way to
the main road) than it is anywhere near Kings Cross.

The northern ticket hall will be within the KX footprint once it's all
finished, there's no doubt about that.

I'd agree with the broad notion that the Western (SSL, Met/Circle)
ticket hall is kinda in/under St Pancras station, situated as it is in
the old undercroft, but that doesn't mean the Underground station is
named simply 'St Pancras'.

I note your pick-up location is "St Pancras (National Rail)" - where
'National Rail' is specified in the name of the location, then that
means it's the NR gateline as opposed to the LU one.

I don't think the different LUL gatelines are distinguished for the
purpose of picking up credit. When I had to pick up some credit at the
Cross recently they told me it didn't matter where I entered the tube. I
have a feeling that in the end I exited there rather than entering but
still got my credit.

[Found my email now}

*Date:* Tue, 7 Dec 2010

I´ve processed a refund of £0.45 for you at Kings Cross underground
station, it will load at any underground entrance you use there,
from 30 November-7 December. Just touch in and make a journey as
normal; the money will automatically go onto your card as you make a
journey and pass through the ticket-gates.

I realised today that I didn't enter the tube at King's Cross last night
as expected. The disrupted East Coast timetables led to a later arrival
and I decided to use my bus pass to get to Putney rather than the tube.

However, I was pleased to find that the credit seemed, somewhat to my
relief, to be applied to my Oyster card when I exited at King's Cross St
Pancras this afternoon.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Two Oyster pickups at one
 

On Feb 7, 10:45 pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
,
at 12:18:27 on Mon, 7 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:

And where is St Pancras (National Rail) - is that any of the KX/StP
tube barriers, or only the ones at the western ticket hall?

I would imagine that it is actually the Thameslink gateline in St
Pancras itself.

I concur. (If you just wanted to pick them up rather than having to
faff around getting the collection location changed, you could take
the Thameslink from St P to Farringdon I spose, before changing onto
the Underground.)

What happens if I touch in, go through the barriers, u-turn and touch
out; then touch in again at the tube station. Would the OSI logic deal
with that OK?

It's the kind of thing one might do if you found all the Thameslink
trains were cancelled because of the wrong kind of knitting, only once
you've reached the platform.

Interesting idea - yes, I reckon that might well work, I couldn't be
sure though. (Fancy being a guinea pig?)

Recent-ish discussion here demonstrated to me that I haven't really
got my head round how entry followed by exit at the same station is
dealt with (I think it depends on a number of factors, however it's
something I need to revisit at some point - well, I don't "need to",
shall I say instead that I'd be curious to do so!).

Two Oyster pickups at one
 

On Feb 8, 12:25*am, wrote:

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:
[snip]
I'd agree with the broad notion that the Western (SSL, Met/Circle)
ticket hall is kinda in/under St Pancras station, situated as it is in
the old undercroft, but that doesn't mean the Underground station is
named simply 'St Pancras'.

I note your pick-up location is "St Pancras (National Rail)" - where
'National Rail' is specified in the name of the location, then that
means it's the NR gateline as opposed to the LU one.

I don't think the different LUL gatelines are distinguished for the
purpose of picking up credit. When I had to pick up some credit at the
Cross recently they told me it didn't matter where I entered the tube. I
have a feeling that in the end I exited there rather than entering but
still got my credit.

If you'd read my post you'd see that I was *not* referring to
different LUL gatelines, but to the distinction between the LUL
gatelines at KXSP and the NR gateline at St Pancras (same goes for the
NR gatelines at Kings Cross for that matter).

In other words, if you're collecting a top-up/ refund/ whatever from
KXSP LUL, then it won't be available for collection at St Pancras NR
(i.e. the Thameslink gateline) or King's Cross NR (i.e. any of the
gatelines leading to the NR platforms at King's Cross).


[Found my email now}

*Date:* Tue, 7 Dec 2010
I ve processed a refund of 0.45 for you at Kings Cross underground
station, it will load at any underground entrance you use there,
from 30 November-7 December. Just touch in and make a journey as
normal; the money will automatically go onto your card as you make a
journey and pass through the ticket-gates.

I realised today that I didn't enter the tube at King's Cross last night
as expected. The disrupted East Coast timetables led to a later arrival
and I decided to use my bus pass to get to Putney rather than the tube.

However, I was pleased to find that the credit seemed, somewhat to my
relief, to be applied to my Oyster card when I exited at King's Cross St
Pancras this afternoon.

Eh?
All that happened on that occasion is that you picked up the refund at
KXSP LUL when you exited there (on & Dec) - perhaps the email from
Oyster customer services isn't crystal clear but collecting Oyster top-
ups/ refunds/ whatever can be done either when entering or when
exiting a station (i.e. either when starting or ending a journey).

Can't help but feel you've rather missed the pertinent points being
discussed here Colin!

Two Oyster pickups at one
 

On Feb 7, 10:47*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 20:46:54 on
Mon, 7 Feb 2011, Richard J. remarked:

and Northern (the new one linked to St Pancras Int).

which as you say feels a bit like it's in St Pancras, even if it's
actually the KX side of the road.

That's not what he said; he just said it was *linked* to SPI, which I
took to mean that it was in KX but linked to SPI. Since it's going to
be directly under the new main entrance to King's Cross, I think your
feeling will be short-lived.

You will always be able to get there from St Pancras without even seeing
the main building of Kings Cross. If you use the northern most
escalators by the Kent Lines escalators, then it "feels" very much like
an underground ticket office *for* St Pancras.

Which reminds me, do the Kent platforms have Oyster (for trips to/from
Stratford perhaps).

No. Oyster PAYG is not valid for travel on Southeastern Highspeed
whatsoever, nor do Travelcards have any validity on SE Highspeed
either (to be crystal clear, this exclusion applies within the London
zones too - SE Highspeed is a little bit like Heathrow Express in that
respect, in that it sits outside the zonal ticketing system).

I suppose one could envisage some sort of premium fare arrangement for
Oyster PAYG users between St P and Stratford, but such a thing might
be more hassle than its worth - however well the premium fare element
might be flagged up, people wouldn't pay heed to such warnings and
would just assume that it was charged as per a normal NR or LU
journey. (I spose one could argue it should be - the danger is that
it'd get deluged by short hop pax.)

Two Oyster pickups at one
 

In message
, at
15:30:08 on Mon, 7 Feb 2011, Mizter T remarked:
I note your pick-up location is "St Pancras (National Rail)" - where
'National Rail' is specified in the name of the location, then that
means it's the NR gateline as opposed to the LU one.

I note that there's probably only Oyster capability at one of the four
stations comprising the St Pancras complex (FCC, not EMT, SET or
Eurostar), so maybe they could change that to "St Pancras Low Level
(National Rail)" and add a "St Pancras (Underground") being a synonym
for the three LUL gatelines shared with Kings Cross.

Meanwhile, I'll try the FCC in/out trick and see what happens; I'd have
to call the helpline anyway (to get the money transferred to a different
gateline) so I can use that call to sort out any anomaly; and it'll be a
good bit of research too!
--
Roland Perry

Two Oyster pickups at one
 

Here's another wrinkle, by email overnight they said:

"touch your Oyster card on a yellow reader at the location shown above
as you start a journey."

Which makes a choice of station even more complex (if they mean it). I
can't predict in advance what station I'm going to be using to travel
home *from* (in central London), even though I'm fairly sure which
station I'm heading *to*[1]. It depends what pub we go to after the
meeting etc.

So it has to be St Pancras (or if I was wider awake when answering "what
station am I changing to the tube at") Kings Cross.

[1] Barring disruption of various kinds. My most recent tube journey was
frustrated because the station I wanted to travel from, was closed due
to broken lifts.
--
Roland Perry

Two Oyster pickups at one
 

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Feb 8, 12:25*am, wrote:

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:
[snip]
I'd agree with the broad notion that the Western (SSL, Met/Circle)
ticket hall is kinda in/under St Pancras station, situated as it is
in the old undercroft, but that doesn't mean the Underground station
is named simply 'St Pancras'.

I note your pick-up location is "St Pancras (National Rail)" - where
'National Rail' is specified in the name of the location, then that
means it's the NR gateline as opposed to the LU one.

I don't think the different LUL gatelines are distinguished for the
purpose of picking up credit. When I had to pick up some credit at the
Cross recently they told me it didn't matter where I entered the tube.
I have a feeling that in the end I exited there rather than entering
but still got my credit.

If you'd read my post you'd see that I was *not* referring to
different LUL gatelines, but to the distinction between the LUL
gatelines at KXSP and the NR gateline at St Pancras (same goes for the
NR gatelines at Kings Cross for that matter).

In other words, if you're collecting a top-up/ refund/ whatever from
KXSP LUL, then it won't be available for collection at St Pancras NR
(i.e. the Thameslink gateline) or King's Cross NR (i.e. any of the
gatelines leading to the NR platforms at King's Cross).


[Found my email now}

*Date:* Tue, 7 Dec 2010
I ve processed a refund of 0.45 for you at Kings Cross underground
station, it will load at any underground entrance you use there,
from 30 November-7 December. Just touch in and make a journey as
normal; the money will automatically go onto your card as you make
a journey and pass through the ticket-gates.

I realised today that I didn't enter the tube at King's Cross last
night as expected. The disrupted East Coast timetables led to a
later arrival and I decided to use my bus pass to get to Putney
rather than the tube.

However, I was pleased to find that the credit seemed, somewhat to
my relief, to be applied to my Oyster card when I exited at King's
Cross StPancras this afternoon.

Eh?
All that happened on that occasion is that you picked up the refund at
KXSP LUL when you exited there (on & Dec) - perhaps the email from
Oyster customer services isn't crystal clear but collecting Oyster top-
ups/ refunds/ whatever can be done either when entering or when
exiting a station (i.e. either when starting or ending a journey).

Can't help but feel you've rather missed the pertinent points being
discussed here Colin!

I wasn't using Oyster on NR of course and neither is Roland. I have to
admit being somewhat puzzled that LUL should offer pickup at an NR
gateline. I rather assumed they meant one of theirs.

--
Colin Rosenstiel