Apparently there was no service in the Moorgate line this morning because
of issues with the overhead at Drayton park. Is there a case for extending
the 3rd rail to finsbury park so if something like this does happen or a
trains pan fails then passengers could at least get to finsbury which is a
lot more useful than middle-of-nowhere drayton park?

B2003

wrote:
Apparently there was no service in the Moorgate line this morning because
of issues with the overhead at Drayton park. Is there a case for extending
the 3rd rail to finsbury park so if something like this does happen or a
trains pan fails then passengers could at least get to finsbury which is a
lot more useful than middle-of-nowhere drayton park?


Well in the morning the predominant flow is south into the City, so apart
from whatever trains that may have got stuck at Drayton Park I'd guess that
most pax did indeed get to Finsbury Park (where they turned the trains this
morning? KX doesn't have the capacity to handle the GN inner-suburbans on
top of its normal weekday peak traffic).

For those stuck at Drayton Park, one way of continuing would be to walk
round the corner to Holloway Rd tube station on your favourite Piccadilly
line (pretty sure there's a local area map at Drayton Park, and poss. also
street signs that point the way to the tube station - though perhaps not, as
said signs might be designed for the benefit of Arsenal crowds, and Holloway
Rd tube station is closed before and after matches).

wrote:
Apparently there was no service in the Moorgate line this morning because
of issues with the overhead at Drayton park. Is there a case for extending
the 3rd rail to finsbury park so if something like this does happen or a
trains pan fails then passengers could at least get to finsbury which is a
lot more useful than middle-of-nowhere drayton park?


Well in the morning the predominant flow is south into the City, so apart
from whatever trains that may have got stuck at Drayton Park I'd guess that
most pax did indeed get to Finsbury Park (where they turned the trains this
morning? KX doesn't have the capacity to handle the GN inner-suburbans on
top of its normal weekday peak traffic).

For those stuck at Drayton Park, one way of continuing would be to walk
round the corner to Holloway Rd tube station on your favourite Piccadilly
line (pretty sure there's a local area map at Drayton Park, and poss. also
street signs that point the way to the tube station - though perhaps not, as
said signs might be designed for the benefit of Arsenal crowds, and Holloway
Rd tube station is closed before and after matches).

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:58:46 -0000
"Mizter T" wrote:
Well in the morning the predominant flow is south into the City, so apart
from whatever trains that may have got stuck at Drayton Park I'd guess that
most pax did indeed get to Finsbury Park (where they turned the trains this
morning? KX doesn't have the capacity to handle the GN inner-suburbans on
top of its normal weekday peak traffic).

And if there'd been a 3rd rail to Drayton park the service would have been
able to continue to moorgate. To me that makes more sense than having a small
bit of catenary down to drayton since if the 3rd rail system fails no trains
will be run down there at the moment anyway. So with a 3rd rail to finsbury
you just have one point of failure rather than 2.

For those stuck at Drayton Park, one way of continuing would be to walk
round the corner to Holloway Rd tube station on your favourite Piccadilly
line (pretty sure there's a local area map at Drayton Park, and poss. also
street signs that point the way to the tube station - though perhaps not, as
said signs might be designed for the benefit of Arsenal crowds, and Holloway
Rd tube station is closed before and after matches).

And of course LU will stitch up PAYG travellers for the priviledge of switching
onto the tube for 1 stop.

B2003

wrote:

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:58:46 -0000
"Mizter T" wrote:
Well in the morning the predominant flow is south into the City, so apart
from whatever trains that may have got stuck at Drayton Park I'd guess
that
most pax did indeed get to Finsbury Park (where they turned the trains
this
morning? KX doesn't have the capacity to handle the GN inner-suburbans on
top of its normal weekday peak traffic).

And if there'd been a 3rd rail to Drayton park the service would have been
able to continue to moorgate. To me that makes more sense than having a
small
bit of catenary down to drayton since if the 3rd rail system fails no
trains
will be run down there at the moment anyway. So with a 3rd rail to
finsbury
you just have one point of failure rather than 2.

The OHLE might then fail at Finsbury Park instead, perhaps blocking off a
whole platform with a stranded train.


For those stuck at Drayton Park, one way of continuing would be to walk
round the corner to Holloway Rd tube station on your favourite Piccadilly
line (pretty sure there's a local area map at Drayton Park, and poss. also
street signs that point the way to the tube station - though perhaps not,
as
said signs might be designed for the benefit of Arsenal crowds, and
Holloway
Rd tube station is closed before and after matches).

And of course LU will stitch up PAYG travellers for the priviledge of
switching
onto the tube for 1 stop.

I fail to see how that can be described as a stitch up - LU would charge a
fare as they would for any other passenger making a journey from Holloway
Road tube station. Afraid I very much doubt that FCC would have come to any
arrangement with LU to pass tickets just for those pax who ended up getting
booted off at Drayton Park (I can't imagine it'd have been more than one
train load).

As for pax who switched from FCC to the Tube at Finsbury Park, then those
using Oyster PAYG and heading into Old Street and Moorgate wouldn't have
been charged any differently (or more) than is normal.

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:00:49 -0000
"Mizter T" wrote:
And if there'd been a 3rd rail to Drayton park the service would have been
able to continue to moorgate. To me that makes more sense than having a
small
bit of catenary down to drayton since if the 3rd rail system fails no
trains
will be run down there at the moment anyway. So with a 3rd rail to
finsbury
you just have one point of failure rather than 2.

The OHLE might then fail at Finsbury Park instead, perhaps blocking off a
whole platform with a stranded train.

It could fail there now. If it does the train will be going nowhere. However
if there was a 3rd rail there it could just reverse and potter off back down
to moorgate. At least the passengers would have the option of getting a train
from KX on another platform.

I fail to see how that can be described as a stitch up - LU would charge a
fare as they would for any other passenger making a journey from Holloway
Road tube station. Afraid I very much doubt that FCC would have come to any

Because if I travel from moorgate - finsbury on a PAYG then i shouldn't pay
any more if I go moorgate - drayton - highbury - finsbury than if I go
direct. It should be the number of zones you traverse that matter, not the
number of station gates you pass through.

B2003

On 2011-02-08 15:00:26 +0000, d said:

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:00:49 -0000
"Mizter T" wrote:
And if there'd been a 3rd rail to Drayton park the service would have been
able to continue to moorgate. To me that makes more sense than having a
small
bit of catenary down to drayton since if the 3rd rail system fails no
trains
will be run down there at the moment anyway. So with a 3rd rail to
finsbury
you just have one point of failure rather than 2.

The OHLE might then fail at Finsbury Park instead, perhaps blocking off a
whole platform with a stranded train.

It could fail there now. If it does the train will be going nowhere. However
if there was a 3rd rail there it could just reverse and potter off back down
to moorgate. At least the passengers would have the option of getting a train
from KX on another platform.

It couldn't just reverse - it'd have to do what the Moorgate - Finsbury
Park short workings used to do in the early days of the Great Northern
Electrics. They used the EMU reversing sidings then reversed over the
Harringay flyover onto the up goods before crossing to Finsbury Park
platform 1. All of that track would need a third rail to be laid.

In article , d ()
wrote:

Apparently there was no service in the Moorgate line this morning
because of issues with the overhead at Drayton park. Is there a case for
extending the 3rd rail to finsbury park so if something like this does
happen or a trains pan fails then passengers could at least get to
finsbury which is a lot more useful than middle-of-nowhere drayton park?

What exactly failed this morning? I was on the 09:20 from Cambridge to
King's Cross which is supposed to be non-stop from Letchworth. It stopped
without warning at Alexandra Palace (embarrassing because my bike was
blocking a door) and then at Finsbury Park.

One of those who got on at Alexandra Palace told me he was on an inner
that was tipped out there, so we got a whole train load joining us. Some
got off at Finsbury Park (as did some from Cambridge when they realised
they'd get to the tube more easily) but others went on to the Cross.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

And there was chaos in the evening too. I arrived at Kings X at abut
18:15, to catch the 18:27 to New Barnet. Onthe board it said 'On
time' until 18:29, when it disappeared, reappearing a few minutes
later as 'Delayed'. Eventually a platform was posted, and it departed
at around 19:00 (by which time the boards were advertising the 18:57
as 'On Time')

There were no audible announcements made to the station concourse.
The explanation from the information desk was that trains were being
diverted from Moorgate, and this was causing congestion. But if this
were true, there should have been additional departures of these
diverted trains on their return journeys, and yet nothing was posted.

When the train did arrive, it appeared to be out of the depot (no
passengers, destination blind 'Sorry, Not in Service'). Usually it is
the 18:17 arrival from WGC that forms this train.

Does anyone know what was actually going on? And as an aside, as I
now travel by Freedom Pass, can I claim compensation for the delay?

Peter

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 18:50:16 +0000
Ken Wheatley wrote:
It couldn't just reverse - it'd have to do what the Moorgate - Finsbury
Park short workings used to do in the early days of the Great Northern
Electrics. They used the EMU reversing sidings then reversed over the
Harringay flyover onto the up goods before crossing to Finsbury Park
platform 1. All of that track would need a third rail to be laid.

Can't be more than a few hundred metres of line. Hardly onorous. Anyway, its
all theoretical, it'll never happen.

B2003