On 2/27/2011 5:40 AM, Mizter T wrote:

On Feb 27, 1:47 am, wrote:

(Mizter T) wrote:

On Feb 26, 3:02 pm, wrote:

What about more than one person using the same card? I use my credit
card to buy tickets for all the family quite often.

I don't think it'd be any different to Oyster - any one credit/debit
card could only be used in this way by one person at any one time (and
strictly speaking at least I'd expect it should only be the named
cardholder).

My VISA card has one number, but it's in two separate names -- mine and
Mr Cat's. So wouldn't that confuse the mechanism to have two of the same
card numbers in a row touching the thingie? I'd love to see a paragraph
on this. (and larger families! that'll be a chore. Sounds like a system
for singletons only.)

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
It's for paying for individual entrances and exits from the tube (some
of the exits will be credits, of course), and for bus rides.

*if* the scheme also has daily and weekly capping, that will simulate
almost all the properties of a daily/weekly paper travelcard, so no need
for people to want one of those.

Well, we already know, I think, that it *won't* charge and refund for
individual entries and exits, but will instead make a single charge at
the end of the day for the total fare for that day.

But that weekly, capped, travelcard-equivalent won't be one paywave for
~£40, it'll be the sum of lots of ~£2 trips capped at ~£6 a day over a 7
day period.

Well, I imagine that when they implement weekly capping they will
still take the money daily (not weekly). So it will be the sum of
lots of daily totals, none of which will exceed the daily cap, of
course.

-roy

On Feb 27, 9:33*pm, redcat wrote:

(Mizter T) wrote:

On Feb 26, 3:02 pm, wrote:

What about more than one person using the same card? I use my credit
card to buy tickets for all the family quite often.

I don't think it'd be any different to Oyster - any one credit/debit
card could only be used in this way by one person at any one time (and
strictly speaking at least I'd expect it should only be the named
cardholder).

My VISA card has one number, but it's in two separate names -- mine and
Mr Cat's. So wouldn't that confuse the mechanism to have two of the same
card numbers in a row touching the thingie? I'd love to see a paragraph
on this. (and larger families! that'll be a chore. Sounds like a system
for singletons only.)

I'd assume that each card would transmit a unique ID (via the 'pay and
wave' functionality), even if the card number was the same.

In article ,
(tim....) wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:13:50 on Sun,
27 Feb 2011, tim.... remarked:

Part of the attraction of the scheme is not having to queue up to
buy tickets (and also not needing to know the system well enough,
including speaking English, to be able to decide which tickets to
buy).

So you'd pay twice as much

Where's this "twice as much" come from?

Capped oyster price for an adult: peak/off peak 8.00/6.60. Cash
price for a child travelcard 4.00/3.00.

not to queue up, would you?

Have you seen the queues at St Pancras?

It's not always like that

I don't think I've ever been to Kings Cross St Pancras tube needing to get
a ticket/top up Oyster without queues at similar to that. I always try to
have enough credit on Oyster to escape the place before needing to top up.
Westminster isn't much better either, mainly because not enough windows
are staffed most of the time.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On Feb 27, 11:35*am, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
,
at 03:27:09 on Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Mizter T
remarked:

Why do you make the assumption that accompanied children would be
dealt with any differently when an adult is travelling using a 'pay
and wave' card compared to when that adult is using an Oyster card?

For one thing, today you can't use an Oyster Card for a group, but you
can use a Credit Card (by buying several tickets at once).

That's not what I was getting at. Children aged 5-10 travel free on
the Tube, DLR and LO "if travelling with an adult who has a valid
ticket, Freedom Pass or Veterans photocard or who is using pay as you
go" - that covers up to four children per adult - see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14554.aspx
(Children under 5 travel for free too, but they're dealt with
separately as they have to be accompanied by an adult.)

I don't see any reason to imagine why this free travel for accompanied
children up to the age of 10 (inclusive) would be any different if the
adult was travelling using a 'pay and wave' credit/debit card instead
of an Oyster card.

What about 11-15 year olds? How many of them have cards?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

If you want a travelcard, can you not buy it from the machines in the
main line station?

Sadly, even the closest machines in the main station are a very
long walk (at the entrance to the Thameslink platforms, and also
round the corner in the Circle, or upstairs at the MML barriers).
So while you might be able to buy a Travelcard (I don't know, and
it's not obvious that you can) it's not somewhere a Eurostar
arrivee is going to know about or stumble over.

I thought child tickets were only available from ticket offices these days?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(tim....) wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 19:24:20 on Sun,
27 Feb 2011, tim.... remarked:
"why would a child want to pay adult Oyster fares when they could
buy a paper travelcard for less?"

To which you replied (paraphrased) "to avoid queuing up"

OK, so it's twice as much, but it's also still a corner case

Is it?

Yes, because they typically won't have a paywave card. They can't
use their parent's paywave card because the parent is using that.
(I don't accept your argument that a parent will get

I didn't say get, I assumed that they will have.

Do you not?

I've a credit card and a debit card in my wallet and I don't
suppose that I am in the minority

So do I but I have two children (over 18 now, though).

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 21:05:48 on Sun, 27 Feb
2011, tim.... remarked:

Yes, because they typically won't have a paywave card. They can't use
their parent's paywave card because the parent is using that. (I don't
accept your argument that a parent will get

I didn't say get, I assumed that they will have.

Do you not?

I've a credit card and a debit card in my wallet and I don't suppose that I
am in the minority

At the moment I've only got one paywave card (and that's combined with
Oyster which has, erm, potentially unresolved issues on how the gate
will resolve which half I'm trying to use...)

I'm not in the business of handing my children out spare credit cards in
this situation. It's a weakness of the business model.

What I *would* be prepared to do (as a tourist arriving in London) is
buy a set of Oyster cards from a vending machine. If there isn't a Child
Oyster, then that's another business model weakness.

Actually, that begs the question of whether a child with a paywave would
be charged less than an adult [how would the gate know?] (back to the
"twice the price" issue again).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 16:33:14
on Sun, 27 Feb 2011, redcat remarked:

My VISA card has one number, but it's in two separate names -- mine and
Mr Cat's. So wouldn't that confuse the mechanism to have two of the
same card numbers in a row touching the thingie?

This may have been already considered as part of the paywave
specification - for example, is the limit (for non-TfL purchases) ten
per day per card, or ten per day per account (which might have two
cards).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 18:49:07
on Sun, 27 Feb 2011, remarked:

If you want a travelcard, can you not buy it from the machines in the
main line station?

Sadly, even the closest machines in the main station are a very
long walk (at the entrance to the Thameslink platforms, and also
round the corner in the Circle, or upstairs at the MML barriers).
So while you might be able to buy a Travelcard (I don't know, and
it's not obvious that you can) it's not somewhere a Eurostar
arrivee is going to know about or stumble over.

I thought child tickets were only available from ticket offices these days?

Very possibly (it was certainly the case last time I needed to buy one
for my child). I think that there's a bit of a disconnect between
reality and some people's expectations when it comes to child ticketing.
In other words, I'm not sure any automated child ticketing is possible
in the current anti-fraud atmosphere.

Which does leave us hanging out "tourists with children" to dry, when it
comes to new initiatives such as this (or indeed Oyster).

What does this mean, when it comes to decisions about whether to "queue
up or pay more", well that will depend on the urgency, and the cost
(loss of leisure opportunity) to a family of spending 20 minutes in a
queue.
--
Roland Perry