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reducing congestion
Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings
is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. |
reducing congestion
Cast_Iron wrote:
Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? Is it not mostly caused by either: (a) people who work in the South-East during the week travelling home for the weekend, or (b) people visiting friends and relatives for the weekend -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783) |
reducing congestion
"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. I can't say I have a second home, but why should a second home be heavily taxed? Second homes make very low demands upon local services. I would suspect that even if you prevented anyone from owning a second home, it would make little difference to the general housing market. People travelling to their 2nd homes pay plenty of tax travelling to them. I would suspect most traffic though is caused by people seeing friends or relatives, or travelling to/from their place of work for the week. Mikael |
reducing congestion
"Cast_Iron" wrote in message ... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. Absouletely. Anyone with a second home should be made to absolutely pay through-the-nose for it. |
reducing congestion
"Mikael Armstrong" wrote in message ... "Cast_Iron" wrote in message ... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. I can't say I have a second home, but why should a second home be heavily taxed? Because people who own 2 houses are clearly very rich, and the rich should be targeted for tax for two reasons: 1) Social justice 2) It would actually be impossible to raise enough revenue if everyone was taxed to the same %age because the rich provide a disproportionately large chunk of revenue. Second homes make very low demands upon local services. I would suspect that even if you prevented anyone from owning a second home, it would make little difference to the general housing market. This is completely untrue. There are many examples in West England where the popularity of second homes, particularly in scenic locations, has driven up prices making it really hard for people with local jobs to find somewhere affordable. People travelling to their 2nd homes pay plenty of tax travelling to them. I would suspect most traffic though is caused by people seeing friends or relatives, or travelling to/from their place of work for the week. The thing is, most people with a 2nd home will travel there every weekend without fail. Mikael |
reducing congestion
"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? No. An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. If you have to rent or buy, you have to rent or buy - it's that simple. -- The DervMan www.dervman.com |
reducing congestion
"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
... "Mikael Armstrong" wrote in message ... "Cast_Iron" wrote in message ... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. I can't say I have a second home, but why should a second home be heavily taxed? Because people who own 2 houses are clearly very rich, and the rich should be targeted for tax for two reasons: 1) Social justice 2) It would actually be impossible to raise enough revenue if everyone was taxed to the same %age because the rich provide a disproportionately large chunk of revenue. Second homes make very low demands upon local services. I would suspect that even if you prevented anyone from owning a second home, it would make little difference to the general housing market. This is completely untrue. There are many examples in West England where the popularity of second homes, particularly in scenic locations, has driven up prices making it really hard for people with local jobs to find somewhere affordable. It is the lack of supply which will have driven prices up. Lets face it, out of teh total population, very few people have 2nd homes, so you would not have to let many new homes to be built to offset the effect in the areas concerned. Lets allow people to build a few more houses in the areas people actually want to live in, rather than proposing more construction in the areas already filled to the brim. People travelling to their 2nd homes pay plenty of tax travelling to them. I would suspect most traffic though is caused by people seeing friends or relatives, or travelling to/from their place of work for the week. The thing is, most people with a 2nd home will travel there every weekend without fail. And so what? They already pay the petrol tax, they will have paid stamp duty buying the house (another unfair tax), and no doubt they will be high earners paying fair amounts of income tax too. Many people owning 2nd homes probably also spend a reasonable amount in the local area where they travel to at the weekends, and perhaps will have employed local people to renovate the houses if needed. Wealth and properity comes from people doing business, not from taxes. Mikael |
reducing congestion
PeterE wrote...
Cast_Iron wrote: Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? Is it not mostly caused by either: (a) people who work in the South-East during the week travelling home for the weekend, or (b) people visiting friends and relatives for the weekend Don't feed the trolls. |
reducing congestion
"Oliver Keating" wrote in message
... "Cast_Iron" wrote in message ... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. Absouletely. Anyone with a second home should be made to absolutely pay through-the-nose for it. Are you suggesting then that people who buy a small flat near their place of work and have a house in the suburbs or countryside where the rest of their family live should be penalised for it? Surely you would advocate people living close to where they work and reducing their reliance upon the transport infrastructure? Taxes like everything work both ways. Mikael |
reducing congestion
"DervMan" wrote in message ... "Cast_Iron" wrote in message ... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? No. An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. If you have to rent or buy, you have to rent or buy - it's that simple. But it is the question of affordability in relation to local wages that is the cause for concern. |
reducing congestion
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reducing congestion
Conor wrote...
What about people in rural villages who were born there but are unable to buy property because people from cities have bought up all the houses and pushed up the prices beyond reach? In what sense are they "in" said 'rural villages' if they cannot afford to live there? |
reducing congestion
In article , CastIron_881
@hotmail.com says... But it is the question of affordability in relation to local wages that is the cause for concern. We have entire villages where the only locally born people there are those who bought their homes decades ago and never moved. The rest simply can't afford to buy. The sad fact is that the effect is also spreading into the towns in East Yorks to the point that no locals will be able to afford to buy. -- Conor "Cogito Eggo Sum" - "I think, therefore I am a waffle" |
reducing congestion
"JNugent" wrote the following
in: Conor wrote... What about people in rural villages who were born there but are unable to buy property because people from cities have bought up all the houses and pushed up the prices beyond reach? In what sense are they "in" said 'rural villages' if they cannot afford to live there? They may have a house that's too small or be living with their parents and trying to move out. -- message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith. Enjoy the Routemaster while you still can. Robin May may be my name, but Robin is my first name. |
reducing congestion
Conor wrote:
In article , CastIron_881 @hotmail.com says... But it is the question of affordability in relation to local wages that is the cause for concern. We have entire villages where the only locally born people there are those who bought their homes decades ago and never moved. The rest simply can't afford to buy. The sad fact is that the effect is also spreading into the towns in East Yorks to the point that no locals will be able to afford to buy. Basic laws of supply and demand, I'm afraid. In large parts of the country it's now the case that someone on average wages can't get on the property ladder. But life goes on, somehow. In general the response to this seems to be that kids continue to live with their parents to an ever later age. Where locations are within commuting reach of major cities I don't see that restricting second home ownership would make any difference. -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783) |
reducing congestion
Robin May wrote in message
.4... "JNugent" wrote: Conor wrote... What about people in rural villages who were born there but are unable to buy property because people from cities have bought up all the houses and pushed up the prices beyond reach? In what sense are they "in" said 'rural villages' if they cannot afford to live there? They may have a house that's too small or be living with their parents and trying to move out. The world is full of people who would rather live in a/the house they can't afford to buy. It certainly applies to me. I bet it applies to you, and to the PP. |
reducing congestion
Conor wrote...
CastIron_881 @hotmail.com says... But it is the question of affordability in relation to local wages that is the cause for concern. We have entire villages where the only locally born people there are those who bought their homes decades ago and never moved. The rest simply can't afford to buy. The sad fact is that the effect is also spreading into the towns in East Yorks to the point that no locals will be able to afford to buy. That's odd, Conor. You are forever telling us how cheap housing is up there. Hmmm? :-) |
reducing congestion
"JNugent" wrote in message
... Conor wrote... CastIron_881 @hotmail.com says... But it is the question of affordability in relation to local wages that is the cause for concern. We have entire villages where the only locally born people there are those who bought their homes decades ago and never moved. The rest simply can't afford to buy. The sad fact is that the effect is also spreading into the towns in East Yorks to the point that no locals will be able to afford to buy. That's odd, Conor. You are forever telling us how cheap housing is up there. Hmmm? :-) Heh - "certain villages" of course. -- The DervMan www.dervman.com |
reducing congestion
Oliver Keating wrote:
1) Social justice People who are not prepared to work should get no money. That's social justice. |
reducing congestion
"Conor" wrote in message
... In article , says... "Oliver Keating" wrote in message ... "Cast_Iron" wrote in message ... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. Absouletely. Anyone with a second home should be made to absolutely pay through-the-nose for it. Are you suggesting then that people who buy a small flat near their place of work and have a house in the suburbs or countryside where the rest of their family live should be penalised for it? Surely you would advocate people living close to where they work and reducing their reliance upon the transport infrastructure? Taxes like everything work both ways. What about people in rural villages who were born there but are unable to buy property because people from cities have bought up all the houses and pushed up the prices beyond reach? Well I'm sure permission could be granted for the construction of a few extra houses to satisfy some of the demand. -- Conor "Cogito Eggo Sum" - "I think, therefore I am a waffle" |
reducing congestion
Conor wrote:
We have entire villages where the only locally born people there are those who bought their homes decades ago and never moved. And they probably own the local pub and shop. I'm sure they're very happy that they now have a local population of wealthy stock brokers to replace the inbred mouth-breathers that once resided there. :-) |
reducing congestion
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reducing congestion
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reducing congestion
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reducing congestion
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reducing congestion
Conor wrote...
... what is happening here is that people living in the South East are selling up and moving up here to retire because of the cheaper housing. The problem is that they contribute so little to the local economy that the wages have remained static whilst the house prices have shot up 100%. Even a couple on decent wages for the area can no longer afford to buy a house on a 3 times multiplier of annual earnings. This very different from what you usually tell us about house prices up north. Why is that? |
reducing congestion
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reducing congestion
Conor wrote:
It is compared to most of the country but the local wages are dire. The cost of housing in villages though has risen far faster than that of the towns. You'll be lucky to find a house in a village for sale under £150,000. Considering that the average wage around here is £12,000, how can even a working couple afford to buy? They have to live with parents and wait to inherit. Just like it always used to be. Life goes on. -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783) |
reducing congestion
Conor wrote:
People like agricultural workers. As opposed to truckers. :-) |
reducing congestion
Silk wrote in message
... Conor wrote: People like agricultural workers. As opposed to truckers. :-) Hmmm... (a) People are attacted to agricultural workers but can't stick truckers. (b) Truckers can/cannot be like agricultural workers. Hmmmm........ |
reducing congestion
"Conor" wrote in message
.. . In article , says... Well I'm sure permission could be granted for the construction of a few extra houses to satisfy some of the demand. Nope. Govt policy on greenfield sites. We know that! But perhaps that is the policy which should be modified! Not the taxation one. -- Conor "Cogito Eggo Sum" - "I think, therefore I am a waffle" |
reducing congestion
Conor wrote:
This applies to people living and working in a rural community. People like agricultural workers. Who nowadays are generally asylum seekers bussed in from the nearest big city. -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783) |
reducing congestion
"Silk" wrote in message ... Oliver Keating wrote: 1) Social justice People who are not prepared to work should get no money. That's social justice. What about people who want to but are not allowed to? |
reducing congestion
In article , Oliver Keating
writes "Mikael Armstrong" wrote in message ... "Cast_Iron" wrote in message ... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? An added bonus of this would be to free-up houses in rural and other touristy areas that young people on local wages could afford to buy or rent who would then spend money in the local economy. I can't say I have a second home, but why should a second home be heavily taxed? Because people who own 2 houses are clearly very rich, and the rich should be targeted for tax for two reasons: 1) Social justice 2) It would actually be impossible to raise enough revenue if everyone was taxed to the same %age because the rich provide a disproportionately large chunk of revenue. You mean that rich people should have there 2nd house outside of the UK. So another country can tax them. Second homes make very low demands upon local services. I would suspect that even if you prevented anyone from owning a second home, it would make little difference to the general housing market. This is completely untrue. There are many examples in West England where the popularity of second homes, particularly in scenic locations, has driven up prices making it really hard for people with local jobs to find somewhere affordable. Houses with scenic view have always been more expensive. Build houses with out scenic views -- Zaax http://www.ukgatsos.com |
reducing congestion
"Silk" wrote in message ... Oliver Keating wrote: 1) Social justice People who are not prepared to work should get no money. That's social justice. What an incredible contribution. Thank you. I have seen the light |
reducing congestion
"Mikael Armstrong" wrote in message ... "Oliver Keating" wrote in message ... "Mikael Armstrong" wrote in message ... "Cast_Iron" wrote in message ... Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings It is the lack of supply which will have driven prices up. Lack of supply, excess of demand.... whats the difference? It is entirely subjective. Lets face it, out of teh total population, very few people have 2nd homes, No, but the number of homes being sold as second homes is growing faster than first homes, so they are having an effect on growing prices. so you would not have to let many new homes to be built to offset the effect in the areas concerned. Lets allow people to build a few more houses in the areas people actually want to live in, rather than proposing more construction in the areas already filled to the brim. Um, people _do_ want to live in London, and there are 100,000 new homes propesed. What is the problem with that? People travelling to their 2nd homes pay plenty of tax travelling to them. I would suspect most traffic though is caused by people seeing friends or relatives, or travelling to/from their place of work for the week. The thing is, most people with a 2nd home will travel there every weekend without fail. And so what? They already pay the petrol tax, they will have paid stamp duty buying the house (another unfair tax), and no doubt they will be high earners paying fair amounts of income tax too. Because they if they are rich enough to be buying a second house (which I regard as the ultimate frivoulous activity), they can certainly afford to be screwed for every penny by the tax man. And as people keep seeming to forget, every pound that one of these rich kids pays is a pound that the poor don't have to pay. Many people owning 2nd homes probably also spend a reasonable amount in the local area where they travel to at the weekends, and perhaps will have employed local people to renovate the houses if needed. Wealth and properity comes from people doing business, not from taxes. Except of course they do _far_ less business than someone for whom that is their first home. Parts of the west country are dying off thanks to second home buyers, there are just not enough people around to support the economy. Mikael |
reducing congestion
"PeterE" wrote the following in:
Conor wrote: This applies to people living and working in a rural community. People like agricultural workers. Who nowadays are generally asylum seekers bussed in from the nearest big city. Stupid statements like that reveal nothing but your own idiocy. -- message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith. Enjoy the Routemaster while you still can. "Handlebar catch and nipple." |
reducing congestion
Cast_Iron wrote:
Given the that the increased road congestion in Friday and Sunday evenings is caused by many people going and from to their country cottages for the weekend, isn't it time that second homes attracted a punative rate of council tax? Just how congested are the roads on Friday and Sunday evenings? UIVMM they're far from the busiest times! |
reducing congestion
Robin May wrote:
"PeterE" wrote the following in: Conor wrote: This applies to people living and working in a rural community. People like agricultural workers. Who nowadays are generally asylum seekers bussed in from the nearest big city. Stupid statements like that reveal nothing but your own idiocy. Do disagree that agricultural workers are often bussed in from cities then? Whether they're asylum seekers, illegal immigrants or whatever is irrelevant. Perhaps in your fantasy world agricultural work is done by long-serving workers called "Clem" who live in tied cottages next to the land being farmed. Meanwhile, in the real world.... -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783) |
reducing congestion
"Oliver Keating" wrote in message ... I can't say I have a second home, but why should a second home be heavily taxed? Because people who own 2 houses are clearly very rich, and the rich should be targeted for tax for two reasons: 1) Social justice What on earth is social justice? I don't know if you've ever noticed, but people who have a fair bit of money chucking around generally have it for a reason. The average rich person probably runs a business which employs a fair few people, or is high up in a business and through their work ensures the business is profitable, thus employing people. It's not like they've made their money by walking around flogging the working classes and killing their children. The aforementioned rich ******* and his employees go and spend money, which makes more jobs for the people selling goods and providing services. You tax people purely because they're rich and all you do is put off people from being enterprising. 2) It would actually be impossible to raise enough revenue if everyone was taxed to the same %age because the rich provide a disproportionately large chunk of revenue. But if you reduce the tax burden surely you encourage enterprise, which moves more money around the economy and thus you still get your tax. I am not an economist, but AFAIK there are still arguments about high vs low tax :). The rich will always provide you with more revenue per capita as they're spending and earning more cash. |
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