In message , Robert Woolley
writes
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:18:25 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , Robert Woolley
writes
unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in
the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out.

I'd like to see how they tip out.
I'd guess that the middle door will line up nicely with the railings
outside the station...
(Sorry to comment locally but I've seen how difficult it is for people
to alight when two come at once)

Let the passengers off the bus first please!

Move right down inside the saloon!

Stand clear of the closing doors!


(Sounds familiar?!)

Horribly ;-)
But our passengers don't get off into a twelve inch gap with railings in
front..
--
Kat "A world without string is chaos"

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 01:05:20 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , Robert Woolley
writes
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:18:25 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , Robert Woolley
writes
unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in
the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out.

I'd like to see how they tip out.
I'd guess that the middle door will line up nicely with the railings
outside the station...
(Sorry to comment locally but I've seen how difficult it is for people
to alight when two come at once)

Let the passengers off the bus first please!

Move right down inside the saloon!

Stand clear of the closing doors!


(Sounds familiar?!)

Horribly ;-)
But our passengers don't get off into a twelve inch gap with railings in
front..

Which is why any introduction of artics needs to be coupled with
infrastructure mods....


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:13:55 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 19:47:37 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:55:16 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote:

[route 25 and getting to Whitechapel easily]

Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated
buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems....

Rob

do you *really* believe that artics on the 25 will solve the crowding
problems for someone who has clearly stated they have real problems with
using the current low floor buses?

The 25 has ongoing problems with crowding.

Oh I know - I don't use it very often but it is horrifically overcrowded
at times.

The artics have fewer seats than a double decker and obviously a much
greater standing capacity - all my anecdotal evidence suggests you just
get a long single deck crush on artics on busy routes. I don't call that
a solution to crowding problems for the mobility impaired.

unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in
the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out.

But it is the way that capacity is delivered that is the issue here. I
have a very real concern that artics are not an adequate option in terms
of raising bus service quality on really busy trunk services like the 25
(or 18 or 12 or 73). I know it can be argued there are equal issues with
double deckers but at least there are more seats overall than on an
artic. I just think TfL have opted to provide rubber tired, diesel
powered shrunken tube trains on busy bus routes without trying other
options which would bring a real qualitative improvement to the bus
network.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

snip

The 25 has ongoing problems with crowding.

Oh I know - I don't use it very often but it is horrifically
overcrowded at times.

The artics have fewer seats than a double decker and obviously a
much greater standing capacity - all my anecdotal evidence suggests
you just get a long single deck crush on artics on busy routes. I
don't call that a solution to crowding problems for the mobility
impaired.

unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in
the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out.

But it is the way that capacity is delivered that is the issue here. I
have a very real concern that artics are not an adequate option in
terms of raising bus service quality on really busy trunk services
like the 25 (or 18 or 12 or 73). I know it can be argued there are
equal issues with double deckers but at least there are more seats
overall than on an artic. I just think TfL have opted to provide
rubber tired, diesel powered shrunken tube trains on busy bus routes
without trying other options which would bring a real qualitative
improvement to the bus network.

I wonder what the logistics would be in building a tram link from Romford to
Aldgate. It's a dead straight run but would probably have to go underground
or elevated at Ilford and Stratford.

I've no doubt that TFL would consider the cost to be too prohibitive in the
short term (which seems to be *all* they ever consider) but would surely
reap rewards in the long term in passenger revenue, quicker journeys and
people finally recognising a valid alternative to the car.
--
Phil ,,,^.".^,,,


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Edward Cowling wrote:

What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ??

They're fine to use, they just don't cover long distances quickly. It
would take me at least an hour to get to work by bus; when everything
works properly, it takes 30 mins by rail and tube. They seem more prone to
random variations in travel time than the tube, too, traffic being a wild
and unpredictable beast.

tom

--
Come on thunder; come on thunder.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:13:55 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote:


The artics have fewer seats than a double decker and obviously a much
greater standing capacity - all my anecdotal evidence suggests you just
get a long single deck crush on artics on busy routes. I don't call that
a solution to crowding problems for the mobility impaired.

unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in
the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out.


Current Double Deck: 10 bph.
Proposed Artic: 10 bph.

The 10 bph is also extended over a longer period of the operating day
on Mondays - Saturdays, as well as an increase in evening/Sunday
frequencies from 6 to 8 bph.

--
Thomas Covenant
Please observe reply to Address.
Unsolicited mail to "From" address
deleted unread.

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Edward Cowling wrote:

What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ??

They're fine to use, they just don't cover long distances quickly. It
would take me at least an hour to get to work by bus; when everything
works properly, it takes 30 mins by rail and tube. They seem more prone
to
random variations in travel time than the tube, too, traffic being a wild
and unpredictable beast.


I must admit that my original message was fairly tongue in
cheek. I had heard someone wax lyrical about the buses under
Ken, and wondered if it was all eyewash.

I must admit to being very surprised and encouraged by the
responses. It seems Ken really has made the capitals buses
the transport for all of us. Now of course he has to bring the
Tube back up to it's former glory.

--
Edward Cowling - London - UK

"Edward Cowling" wrote in message ...
Someone said to me the other day that if nothing
else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable
way to travel.

Everyone uses buses these days, they said.

Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in
centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles
in the rain than use one.

What is the overall perception of them out there
in Internet land ??

As a reasonably frequent visitor to the central London, I'm using the
buses more and more. For journeys that would take less than 20
minutes by tube, the bus is invariably faster at getting to your
destination, you see a lot more and can get off if something looks
worth getting off for (in my case when the bookshops on Charing Cross
Road come into view).