| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
Buses Acceptable ?
Someone said to me the other day that if nothing
else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? -- Edward Cowling - London - UK |
Buses Acceptable ?
In message , Edward Cowling
writes Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I doubt if *everyone* does, but as someone living in a pretty well off household in Richmond, I say that I use them a lot - except when weather and proximity allow me to cycle (which I much prefer, particularly for health reasons). We have cars, but they are not economic or sensible for many local journeys - and if I'm going into central London with the intention of having a drink, then I'd much rather have my own chauffeur in the form of a bus/tube driver than risk myself and others on the road. (LT staff reading this newsgroup - your services REALLY are appreciated by most of us, especially at this time of year) I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. Then you are astonishingly pompous and clearly cannot relate properly to other people. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? Here buses run every few minutes, and right through the night, are often faster than cars (due to bus lanes and the expense & difficulty of parking in these parts of London) and are thus very much cheaper. They also often give me the chance to exchange a few pleasantries with other travellers - a degree of human contact that is not available if I choose to pollute the atmosphere in the privacy of my car. The fact that buses drop me within 50 metres of my door, and right outside the stations and other places I want to visit is an added bonus - and considerably better than driving round and around in despair of finding some remote parking space in a dark back street at exorbitant cost and often with the Congestion Charge added. I applaud walking for health reasons, but if you do it at the cost of not using a generally excellent bus system you risk denying yourself a breadth of human contact and efficiency in your movements about town. -- Paul Terry |
Buses Acceptable ?
"Edward Cowling" wrote the following in:
Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? I used to consider them next to useless things that were far too complicated to understand and far too slow and infrequent to ever be any use. But recently I've got more familiar with various bus routes and in a lot of places buses are pretty quick and frequent, so I now use them quite a bit. For example, they're the only sensible way to get from Aldwych or Holborn to Waterloo. As for the "drop in centres on wheels", that's a pretty silly thing to say. In my experience of buses they're used by a fairly broad cross section of society. Yes, you will come across members of the public if you ride a bus but you'll find them anywhere else too and if you find that such a problem you should really just stay at home. -- message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith. Enjoy the Routemaster while you still can. Robin May may be my name, but Robin is my first name. |
Buses Acceptable ?
"Robin May" wrote in message .4... "Edward Cowling" wrote the following in: Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? I used to consider them next to useless things that were far too complicated to understand and far too slow and infrequent to ever be any use. But recently I've got more familiar with various bus routes and in a lot of places buses are pretty quick and frequent, so I now use them quite a bit. For example, they're the only sensible way to get from Aldwych or Holborn to Waterloo. As for the "drop in centres on wheels", that's a pretty silly thing to say. In my experience of buses they're used by a fairly broad cross section of society. Yes, you will come across members of the public if you ride a bus but you'll find them anywhere else too and if you find that such a problem you should really just stay at home. -- message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith. Enjoy the Routemaster while you still can. Robin May may be my name, but Robin is my first name. London buses are excellent. I used to use it a lot when I lived in London. Moving to a fairly small town outside London and being a school leaver without the ability to own a car, I absolutely miss being able to go out (basicly anywhere in London) by bus. They come frequently every few minutes and many routes overnight. Strongly applaud London buses! |
Buses Acceptable ?
In article , Robin
May wrote: I used to consider them next to useless things that were far too complicated to understand and far too slow and infrequent to ever be any use. But recently I've got more familiar with various bus routes and in a lot of places buses are pretty quick and frequent, I'd hardly been on a bus in 20 years until I started working out of an office in Twickenham town centre with numerous bus routes outside. The service is a lot better than ever I remembered and the stops with the Countdown indicators are a great innovation (as long as the info is accurate): in many cases you don't mind if there's not a bus for 15 minutes if you know it's going to be 15 minutes - you can go off and buy a paper or whatever without that feeling that the moment you move away from a stop the bus will come. -- Tony Bryer |
Buses Acceptable ?
Edward Cowling wrote in message ...
Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? I live in Central London, and in the last 10 weeks have used buses on just two occasions. AFAIAC, they're uncomfortable, frustrating and slow. IMHO, it's preferable to go by Underground, by bike, or walk, depending on the journey concerned. |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:11:44 -0000, "Edward Cowling"
wrote: Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? Yep brilliant, I almost always take the bus in from Hammersmith to London and back, the most influential reason is probably that it now costs just 65p as opposed to £2 on the tube. Takes a few minutes longer than the tube but not an appreciable amount, and is definitely a better experience (seat every time, more space, better scenery outside, better entertainment from the conductor, can hop off more or less wherever you want, no shuffling in passageways to get to the platform etc etc etc etc etc) One routemaster route past my house but all the others have got new buses now. |
Buses Acceptable ?
David Splett wrote:
Edward Cowling wrote in message ... Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? I live in Central London, and in the last 10 weeks have used buses on just two occasions. AFAIAC, they're uncomfortable, frustrating and slow. IMHO, it's preferable to go by Underground, by bike, or walk, depending on the journey concerned. I used to have that view, and I'm still a bit reluctant to hang around at a non-Countdown bus stop in the hope that a bus turns up. But I've become much more ready to use buses over the last couple of years. Sure they can be uncomfortable and slow, but so are most journeys in C-stock trains on the Circle line. For some journeys, they are clear winners, such as Tate Britain to Aldwych. In other cases, like Selfridges to Hammersmith, the bus may not be faster but it's certainly easier (outside the peak anyway). -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:11:44 -0000, "Edward Cowling"
wrote: What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? I use them from time to time in Milton Keynes, and really wish they were of the high standard I find they are in London, or even better the superb standard in most of Germany. Thatcher and deregulation (outside London) did a lot of harm to the bus industry. They are in reality a vital part of any integrated public transport *system*, as rail simply can't reach everywhere. It's in my mind a pity that London is just about[1] the only place where this is understood in the UK. Oh, and yes, I own a car, but use most modes of transport as appropriate. [1] Merseytravel are making a lot of progress, but are being hampered by the fact that they have no control over the commercial bus services operated in their area, mainly by Arriva. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Buses Acceptable ?
"Edward Cowling" wrote in message ... Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? Why do so many social inadequates insist on demonstrating the fact? |
Buses Acceptable ?
"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
... "Edward Cowling" wrote in message ... I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? Why do so many social inadequates insist on demonstrating the fact? His point is valid for certain neighbourhoods, perhaps 50% or so of London's area. In the rest of London (including Central London) bus use is definitely not the province of the underclass. I've never been threatened or accosted on a bus in my life, so Edward should stop worrying and help "us" to outnumber "them" in more and more parts of London. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:11:44 -0000, "Edward Cowling"
wrote: Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. ISTR that some recent statistics said the proportion of Londoners who don't use buses has fallen from 28% to 21%. Sounds like a decent improvement to me. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What a patronising and insulting remark. I'm surprised you don't possess a chauffeur driven limousine. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? I've used buses for years whether up in the North East or down here in London. They helped me put together my geography of London far better than the Tube ever did. I use them all the time and they are definitely more convenient than the Tube for certain key corridors in Central London and are a necessity for trips beyond Zone 2 where the rail network cannot cover every journey option efficiently. While I'm not Ken's biggest fan I have changed my mind about his bus policy. I think the overall service level and quality have improved markedly and there is no doubt that this (and cheaper fares) have attracted passengers. I remain a bit concerned about the projected costs of running the network as a whole as I wonder about the efficiency that is being delivered. Paradoxically I am also concerned that a lot of planned improvements in the suburbs are being quietly axed to try to contain the budget increases. While I understand the Central London emphasis to date (C Charge) I think it has possibly gone too far and money really needs to be spent in the suburbs because many routes really need more buses and capacity on them now. My final concern is whether we've moved from innovation into gimmicks. Artics have a place but the recent announcements about them replacing routemasters (normal double decks on the 25) on the 12, 25 and 73 make me wonder whether TfL have latched onto one solution for many problems. These routes are very busy, carry people over long distances and I think artics will force more people to stand for far longer. This is a reduction in quality in my view and I think it will prove to be a mistake. I have similar criticisms of cashless boarding and changes to publicity provision that I think are half baked and badly executed. The concepts sound fine but the reality is a long way away from the original intent. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Buses Acceptable ?
Edward Cowling wrote:
Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? They stink - literally! I have health and mobility problems and often have to visit the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel. If I use my car the journey time from home (on the Isle of Dogs) is an average of 7 minutes and, as a local resident with a parking permit, I can park in nearby residents' bays for free or use my Blue Badge on a yellow line. If I use the bus the journey time can increase to up to 2 hours (one way!). The average wait for a D7 to Mile End is about half an hour (scheduled every ten minutes). I cannot use the underground as I can't manage the stairs at Mile End or Whitechapel stations so I have to use the 25 bus. The buses are so crowded (NOT rush hours) that several go by before I can get on one and even then the wait can be up to an hour between buses - only the one route between Bow and Aldgate on the main A11 into the City! When I do get on one there are no seats available and I get crushed with people swearing at me because my walking stick's in their way! The other week a seat (reserved for disabled) became available next to where I was standing. As I went to sit I was shoved out of the way and nearly pushed over by a healthy young woman who pretended not to speak English - until she forgot herself and started talking to her standing friend in loud Cockney English. While waiting at stops (and sometimes on the bus itself) I get accosted by (usually Scottish) gentlemen ? saying "Gi'ussa quid mister" or similar, accompanied by the wafting stench of stale booze and dirt. The journey itself (Mile End to Whitechapel) is only between a mile and a mile and a half yet, because of traffic, can take half an hour. Like I said previously, I can do it in 5-7 minutes driving using faster alternative roads to the bus routes. While this impossible situation exists there is NO WAY I'm going to stop using my car. -- Phil ,,,^.".^,,, --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.553 / Virus Database: 345 - Release Date: 18/12/2003 |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:17:21 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote: My final concern is whether we've moved from innovation into gimmicks. Artics have a place but the recent announcements about them replacing routemasters (normal double decks on the 25) on the 12, 25 and 73 make me wonder whether TfL have latched onto one solution for many problems. These routes are very busy, carry people over long distances and I think artics will force more people to stand for far longer. This is a reduction in quality in my view and I think it will prove to be a mistake. I have similar criticisms of cashless boarding and changes to publicity provision that I think are half baked and badly executed. The concepts sound fine but the reality is a long way away from the original intent. The 73 goes down Oxford Street, right? I think the bendies would be proposed for that route on that basis - load a lot of people very quickly for a short distance. This doesn't help those who will have to stand for long distances in the outer parts of the route, but I'm personally really surprised this route hasn't gone bendy *much* earlier - indeed, perhaps, as one of the first. Apart from the jumping on and off between stops, I find Routemasters perform quite poorly on *very* busy routes such as these, certainly now pay before you board has been implemented. They're cramped, do not permit standing for those who wish to unless the bus is full (and when it is, shoving past people is difficult) and have only one entrance/exit which will require flows in both directions from both sides. Two-doored deckers move people quicker at the stops, and bendies yet faster. I'm in two minds about totally cashless operation; it'd make more sense to have all-door boarding with payment at the driver allowed for those without tickets on the outer reaches of these routes. Oh, and those ticket machines are appallingly unintuitive[1], and need new software now. [1] They are similar to pay-and-display parking machines, with which people are familiar. *Why*, given that change is not given and multiple purchases not possible, do you select the ticket first and then pay? Most parking machines work the other way around. You should also be able to buy two bus singles for a gbp2 coin, which you ludicrously cannot at present. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Buses Acceptable ?
I live 15 minutes walk from the nearest tube station. If I get a bus for 15
minutes, I can be in the City, Westminster, or Covent Garden. Seems pretty acceptable to me... Jonn "Edward Cowling" wrote in message ... Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? -- Edward Cowling - London - UK |
Buses Acceptable ?
|
Buses Acceptable ?
Paul Corfield wrote in
: Artics have a place but the recent announcements about them replacing routemasters (normal double decks on the 25) on the 12, 25 and 73 make You you poing me to this announcment about 12's Thanks |
Buses Acceptable ?
"Edward Cowling" wrote in message ... Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. Dirty, smelly, noisy. And that's just the people who use them !!!!!! |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:25:26 -0000, "Redonda"
wrote: I cannot use the underground as I can't manage the stairs at Mile End or Whitechapel stations so I have to use the 25 bus. The buses are so crowded (NOT rush hours) that several go by before I can get on one and even then the wait can be up to an hour between buses - only the one route between Bow and Aldgate on the main A11 into the City! When I do get on one there are no seats available and I get crushed with people swearing at me because my walking stick's in their way! Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems.... Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Buses Acceptable ?
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
... I have similar criticisms of cashless boarding and changes to publicity provision that I think are half baked and badly executed. The concepts sound fine but the reality is a long way away from the original intent. Could you please elaborate? Thanks. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Buses Acceptable ?
In message , Robert Woolley
writes Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems.... Do you mean the bendy-buses? Now that will be interesting when they come three in a row and stretch all the way to Bow.. BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? -- Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra, sticky bears is ninepence" |
Buses Acceptable ?
"Kat" wrote in message
... BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? A cruel part of me wonders if they were nicked... Jonn |
Buses Acceptable ?
In message , Jonn Elledge
writes "Kat" wrote in message ... BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? A cruel part of me wonders if they were nicked... Not much of a market for second hand bus count-downs I'd have thought... mobile phones and handbags are the usual targets. I did wonder if it had been vandalised but to be honest there's not much of that around the area. -- Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra, sticky bears is ninepence" |
Buses Acceptable ?
Kat wrote: BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? Cos the buses don't dare stop there any more? :-) |
Buses Acceptable ?
In message , Dave Newt
writes Kat wrote: BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? Cos the buses don't dare stop there any more? :-) They do appear to believe in safety in numbers... -- Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra, sticky bears is ninepence" |
Buses Acceptable ?
Kat wrote:
In message , Robert Woolley writes Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems.... Do you mean the bendy-buses? Now that will be interesting when they come three in a row and stretch all the way to Bow.. BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? According to the local paper they were removed because people were complaining about the times for the next bus actually going backwards because of delays on Bow Road. Like I said there can be up to an hour between buses and bendy-buses aren't going to fix that - a boot up the backside of the bus company might though! -- Phil ,,,^.".^,,, --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.554 / Virus Database: 346 - Release Date: 20/12/2003 |
Buses Acceptable ?
Kat wrote:
In message , Jonn Elledge writes "Kat" wrote in message ... BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? A cruel part of me wonders if they were nicked... Not much of a market for second hand bus count-downs I'd have thought... mobile phones and handbags are the usual targets. I did wonder if it had been vandalised but to be honest there's not much of that around the area. ROTFL - You jest! Mile End is one of the worst areas in the East End for vandalism - even the newly rebuilt Mile End Park (and its 'green bridge') has been the target for vandals with hundreds of newly planted trees and flower beds ripped up and torn to pieces. A few years ago a kid was killed trying to vandalise the electricity sub-station behind the Underground station when it blew up blacked out half the area. Then there's the muggings and other assaults in the area round the station - a few weeks ago a woman was attacked and a man trying to help her was stabbed to death. -- Phil ,,,^.".^,,, --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.554 / Virus Database: 346 - Release Date: 20/12/2003 |
Buses Acceptable ?
In message , Redonda
writes Kat wrote: In message , Robert Woolley writes Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems.... Do you mean the bendy-buses? Now that will be interesting when they come three in a row and stretch all the way to Bow.. BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? According to the local paper they were removed because people were complaining about the times for the next bus actually going backwards because of delays on Bow Road. Seems odd that people would rather have no information at all. Like I said there can be up to an hour between buses and bendy-buses aren't going to fix that - a boot up the backside of the bus company might though! The bit from Bow Flyover to Bow Road station is a real bottle neck; stopping people parking just before the bridge (and the turning into Southern Grove) might help too... -- Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra, sticky bears is ninepence" |
Buses Acceptable ?
"Jonn Elledge" typed
"Kat" wrote in message ... BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? A cruel part of me wonders if they were nicked... Jonn I think some around Burnt Oak were vandalised repeatedly (and then disappeared). I don't know if this was the case at Mile End. -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Buses Acceptable ?
Kat wrote: In message , Redonda writes Kat wrote: In message , Robert Woolley writes Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems.... Do you mean the bendy-buses? Now that will be interesting when they come three in a row and stretch all the way to Bow.. BTW, does anyone know why the count-down thing was removed from the bus-stop outside Mile End tube station? According to the local paper they were removed because people were complaining about the times for the next bus actually going backwards because of delays on Bow Road. Seems odd that people would rather have no information at all. Seems even odder that TfL/Bus companies would rather remove the provision of information than try to do something about the underlying problem... (Actually, that's not odd at all!) Like I said there can be up to an hour between buses and bendy-buses aren't going to fix that - a boot up the backside of the bus company might though! The bit from Bow Flyover to Bow Road station is a real bottle neck; stopping people parking just before the bridge (and the turning into Southern Grove) might help too... -- Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra, sticky bears is ninepence" |
Buses Acceptable ?
Kat wrote:
snip Like I said there can be up to an hour between buses and bendy-buses aren't going to fix that - a boot up the backside of the bus company might though! The bit from Bow Flyover to Bow Road station is a real bottle neck; stopping people parking just before the bridge (and the turning into Southern Grove) might help too... If they blocked off the Bow Rd end of Southern Grove (the other end already being blocked) the only way in would be from Burdett Rd in the middle of the market where cars and vans already double-park. Anyway, it's not in the council's interest to block it off as their Social Services offices are down there, including the haha Mobility Unit. As for bottle-necks - the whole route from Ilford to Aldgate is a bottle-neck :-( -- Phil ,,,^.".^,,, --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.555 / Virus Database: 347 - Release Date: 23/12/2003 |
Buses Acceptable ?
"Edward Cowling" wrote in message ...
Someone said to me the other day that if nothing else Ken Livingstone had made buses an acceptable way to travel. Everyone uses buses these days, they said. Do they ? I still consider the bus as drop in centres on wheels and would rather walk 5 miles in the rain than use one. What is the overall perception of them out there in Internet land ?? Well, Mr Cowling, we've got the test results back, and I'm afraid that the diagnosis is that you're a ****, with an underlying condition of snobbishness aggravting the existing symptoms. |
Buses Acceptable ?
Dave Newt wrote the
following in: Kat wrote: In message , Redonda writes According to the local paper they were removed because people were complaining about the times for the next bus actually going backwards because of delays on Bow Road. Seems odd that people would rather have no information at all. Seems even odder that TfL/Bus companies would rather remove the provision of information than try to do something about the underlying problem... What exactly do you suggest doing about the underlying problem? Banning cars from Bow Road? -- message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith. Enjoy the Routemaster while you still can. "Handlebar catch and nipple." |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:57:30 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message .. . I have similar criticisms of cashless boarding and changes to publicity provision that I think are half baked and badly executed. The concepts sound fine but the reality is a long way away from the original intent. Could you please elaborate? Thanks. As you asked so nicely :-) On cashless boarding I think the street machines are too cheap and of poor quality. From comments on various groups there are reliability issues with them, they are not intuitive to use and they are already being modified to reduce tampering with the coin slot. Their limited functionality and lack of change giving creates issues for the future, potentially imposes limitations on the fare levels that can be sensibly charged in future thus meaning larger than (strictly) necessary leaps in fares in the future. There is also the rather obvious problem of the machine staying at the normal stop which might be closed due to roadworks leaving people with a walk to and fro from a temporary stop. This was the case with the w/b stop at Warren St recently. The temporary stop was a least 1 min away from the machine - there was no notice at the temporary stop to advise people they HAD to go to the machine to buy a ticket in advance. That is not passenger friendly. The rules that the drivers have to operate to are also not very friendly. I understand that TfL have to have rules and that they have to try to apply them or else the concept will never stick but there are too many instances of people being kicked off buses to go to machines, people being abused by drivers for not complying with the rules, the opposite case of drivers bending the rules and there being no consistency. You also have the odd discrepancy of conductor buses having one set of rules, artics having another and other buses in the cashless zone operated to other rules. No wonder people are confused. I do understand the benefits that TfL are trying to deliver but the current position is a mess. I cannot see the existing concept working across London. I hope Oyster will unlock a lot of the problems when bus pre-pay starts as the fraud check is done by the card / reader interface and the transaction is simple. The boarding policy on artics is also encouraging fraud as I do not believe the level of revenue check is in place at levels that would act as deterrent. Again I understand there is a business case trade off between revenue lost and running time gained but I feel very uncomfortable with taxpayers effectively subsidising an increase in public transport fraud. On publicity provision I am concerned about a trend towards dumbing down information to passengers. I accept I am lucky in that I can read a timetable and a map. I know there are many people who struggle with these tasks although I cannot comprehend what it must be like. I will happily say at the outset that I am a traditionalist who links to be able to a) buy or obtain detailed timetables for a network b) buy or obtain a high quality network wide route map. TfL provide neither of those things. There are various local guides and the quadrant maps. These are often very hard to obtain without a fight although I accept the local one is usually posted through your letter box. Information on public services should be a right not a privilege and no one should have to go through fifty steps to try to get a bus timetable or guide. Although there are lots of shiny bus station offices apparently stuffed with booklets you try and find the man who has the key! And if you find him try to get a civil response to a request for a book or a map - it's rare that you get a decent response. TfL have closed down many travel information centres including recently opened ones in the suburbs as well as popular ones in Central London. This is a retrograde step. I dislike the Journey Planner and find it cumbersome to use. I believe there is too much emphasis on internet provided information and this has been at the cost of the more traditional "channels". While I am very happy to use the Internet the two sites I use the most to get at detailed London bus information are not run by TfL at all - ironic isn't it? www.busmap.co.uk www.londonbusroutes.net for those who may be interested! oh and www.firstlondontimetables.co.uk is good for First's services in London. I can actually get the proper time for every bus on my local service via this site - hooray. Bus stop information panels are being dumbed down to the extent that they are useless. They are also inaccurate - an example being route 34 where the stop specific panels say buses run every 6-12 mins Monday to Friday. This is quite wrong - there are about 2 intervals in the early morning when a couple of buses leave 6 mins apart because the running time increases to reflect traffic conditions and they arrive 8 mins apart at the terminus. Buses actually run every 8-9 mins for the better part of the day and then every 12 in the evening. To say every 6-12 could mean every 6 or every 12 or every 6 then 12 then 6 then 12. It is all very unclear and unhelpful - all because a computer trawled the base information and found the minimum and maximum headways. Why is it a state secret to know the exact time a bus is supposed to turn up at your stop? - they can do this for high frequency services in the Netherlands and Germany with no difficulty. All the base information exists - why can't the user have easy and convenient access to it? If you read Ken's Transport Strategy it promises much in the field of information and publicity. The result to date is very disappointing in that (IMO) the quality has gone down, it is harder to obtain, there is a "one size fits all" policy and I don't think it is really any easier for car owners or occasional users to feel comfortable with understanding what the transport network offers. There is a long, long way to go. Now I expect Mr Woolley to come running along shortly to defend London Buses so I'll give him a wave now :-))) -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:11:35 -0000, "Redonda"
wrote: [buses at Mile End] According to the local paper they were removed because people were complaining about the times for the next bus actually going backwards because of delays on Bow Road. Like I said there can be up to an hour between buses and bendy-buses aren't going to fix that - a boot up the backside of the bus company might though! Well First didn't bid to keep the route so you'll be getting super Stagecoach bendy buses on the 25 instead. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:55:16 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote: [route 25 and getting to Whitechapel easily] Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems.... Rob do you *really* believe that artics on the 25 will solve the crowding problems for someone who has clearly stated they have real problems with using the current low floor buses? The artics have fewer seats than a double decker and obviously a much greater standing capacity - all my anecdotal evidence suggests you just get a long single deck crush on artics on busy routes. I don't call that a solution to crowding problems for the mobility impaired. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Buses Acceptable ?
In message , Robin May
writes Dave Newt wrote the following in: Kat wrote: In message , Redonda writes According to the local paper they were removed because people were complaining about the times for the next bus actually going backwards because of delays on Bow Road. Seems odd that people would rather have no information at all. Seems even odder that TfL/Bus companies would rather remove the provision of information than try to do something about the underlying problem... What exactly do you suggest doing about the underlying problem? Banning cars from Bow Road? Yes please.... except mine of course (and I suppose emergency vehicles can be allowed too.) -- Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra, sticky bears is ninepence" |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 19:47:37 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 20:55:16 +0000, Robert Woolley wrote: [route 25 and getting to Whitechapel easily] Well, you'll be glad to hear that Route 25 will receive articulated buses in 2004 - which should help solve the crowding problems.... Rob do you *really* believe that artics on the 25 will solve the crowding problems for someone who has clearly stated they have real problems with using the current low floor buses? The 25 has ongoing problems with crowding. The artics have fewer seats than a double decker and obviously a much greater standing capacity - all my anecdotal evidence suggests you just get a long single deck crush on artics on busy routes. I don't call that a solution to crowding problems for the mobility impaired. unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out. Rob. (admits to working for TfL) -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Buses Acceptable ?
In message , Robert Woolley
writes unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out. I'd like to see how they tip out. I'd guess that the middle door will line up nicely with the railings outside the station... (Sorry to comment locally but I've seen how difficult it is for people to alight when two come at once) -- Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra, sticky bears is ninepence" |
Buses Acceptable ?
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:18:25 +0000, Kat
wrote: In message , Robert Woolley writes unless capacity goes up. I can't remember the headways on the 25 in the am peaks but I'd be interest to see how the artics pan out. I'd like to see how they tip out. I'd guess that the middle door will line up nicely with the railings outside the station... (Sorry to comment locally but I've seen how difficult it is for people to alight when two come at once) Let the passengers off the bus first please! Move right down inside the saloon! Stand clear of the closing doors! (Sounds familiar?!) Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 02:25 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2006 LondonBanter.co.uk