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(Recliner) wrote:

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In article , d
() wrote:

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 04:26:22 -0700 (PDT)
CJB wrote:
The fact that these conditions exist are due to the apparent
callous disregard that Transport for London has for its customers
in not putting into service 8-car units and extra trains during
the rush-hour.

Or it might have something to do with the platforms not being long
enough. I don't know about the clapham line but the trains on the
ELL were only 4 car when LU ran it.

Actually, they ran some 5-car CO/CP trains on the ELL in the 1970s.
That was before the elfin safety brigade, mind.

And also before Canada Water station opened. I think that's the
main constraint on the ELL, and the short platforms would be hard
to lengthen (as with Cutty Sark on the DLR).

I thought one of the stations by the tunnel (Rotherhithe?) was the
long standing constraint on the length of trains. It was the height of
short-sightedness to build Canada Water so constrained too, though.

I think Wapping is the one you mean, but don't think the platforms are
quite as short as Canada Water.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 04:26:22AM -0700, CJB wrote:

As witnessed everyday - but thank fully not experienced - at
Kensington Olympia (and numerous other stations on TfL's new
Overground routes) - at rush-hour - these trains largely devoid of
seating - are so grossly over-crowded ...

You make a valid point - southbound trains are absurdly overcrowded
everywhere south of Shepherds Bush in the evening peak, and it's
nigh-on impossible for anyone to get on. There's even more fun and
games when the trains go to the very narrow platform 17 at Clapham
Junction, which also has very narrow staircases at the ends.

The fact that these conditions exist are due to the apparent callous
disregard that Transport for London has for its customers in not
putting into service 8-car units and extra trains during the rush-
hour.

Indeed. There's no good reason for not having longer trains and for not
having built longer platforms. Platform 2 at Clapham Junction was
already long enough, as would platform 1 be if the bridge was repaired
(splitting platform 2 into 2a and 2b like they're doing now will mean
that you can't fit two 8 carriage trains in though). The platforms at
Olympia are, of course, long enough. Shepherds Bush and Imperial Wharf
are brand new stations so could have been built long enough. Not sure
about West Brompton and Willesden Junction, but given that a large
proportion of the passengers are travelling between between Shepherds
Bush and Clapham Junction, having West Brompton and Willesden Junction
be a bit shorter wouldn't be a huge problem.

I don't understand why modern train companies seem to be so allergic to
selective door opening. It's very common on older routes for some
trains to be a lot longer than some platforms, and passengers cope just
fine provided that there are clear announcements.

Well, even though the trains still won't be long enough, at least we're
going to get a more frequent service once the works at Clapham Junction
are complete.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Computer Science is about lofty design goals and careful algorithmic
optimisation. Sysadminning is about cleaning up the resulting mess.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 02:58:55PM +0100, Mizter T wrote:

Whether there might be any serious peak-time capacity issues on the WLL once
the District line trains are withdrawn, and the WLL trains are expected to
handle that flow, I can't say. If I'm in the area or passing through at an
appropriate time I'll endeavour to go and have a look.

I would expect the ex-District passengers to walk to High Street
Kensington or Earls Court, or get a bus. The West London Line goes in a
completely different direction so would see very little extra traffic,
if any.

--
David Cantrell | Bourgeois reactionary pig

"There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza."
"WHAT MAKES YOU SAY THERE IS A HOLE IN YOUR BUCKET?"

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 01:20:15PM +0100, Mizter T wrote:

Secondly, there *are* already extra peak time London Overground trains on
the West London Line. Also, from May onwards, the regular service is
increasing from half-hourly to every 15 mins.

There are already four trains an hour when I travel, leaving Shepherds
Bush at 1809, 19, 29 and 49 (one Southern, three LO). If we assume that
that means there'll be five instead of four, this is only a very small
improvement.

Thirdly, the new class 378 trains are far far more suitable than the old
class 313 trains in terms of dealing with large passenger numbers.

They're still utterly rammed.

Fifthly, the improvements on this line and on the rest of the London
Overground network are basically more or less all down to TfL. It's hard to
see any of this happening under the custodianship of the former operator,
Silverlink Metro.

"The other guy was even worse" isn't really a very good response to "the
current service is **** and we can't see it getting much better". I
thought that that sort of childish nonsense was limited to Prime
Minster's Questions.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

Languages for which ISO-Latin-$n is not necessary, #1 in a series:

Latin

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:58:55 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Whether there might be any serious peak-time capacity issues on the WLL once
the District line trains are withdrawn, and the WLL trains are expected to
handle that flow, I can't say. If I'm in the area or passing through at an
appropriate time I'll endeavour to go and have a look.

So tube ridership is going up and LU are going to withdraw a service?
Theres logic for you. Whats next, Mill Hill East?

B2003

"David Cantrell" wrote:

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 02:58:55PM +0100, Mizter T wrote:

Whether there might be any serious peak-time capacity issues on the WLL
once
the District line trains are withdrawn, and the WLL trains are expected
to
handle that flow, I can't say. If I'm in the area or passing through at
an
appropriate time I'll endeavour to go and have a look.

I would expect the ex-District passengers to walk to High Street
Kensington or Earls Court, or get a bus. The West London Line goes in a
completely different direction so would see very little extra traffic,
if any.


West Ken's closest to Olympia actually - half a mile up North End road.

However, people like to get a train (of some description) right to venues
such as this, so I disagree with your notion - indeed, I don't think the
(weekday) District line Olympia service would be being withdrawn were it not
for the upcoming increase in the London Overground WLL service to an every
15 min frequency. Those coming from central London can change at West
Brompton or (a bit less conveniently at) Shepherd's Bush. Though yes, I'd
walk!

wrote:

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:58:55 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Whether there might be any serious peak-time capacity issues on the WLL
once
the District line trains are withdrawn, and the WLL trains are expected to
handle that flow, I can't say. If I'm in the area or passing through at an
appropriate time I'll endeavour to go and have a look.

So tube ridership is going up and LU are going to withdraw a service?
Theres logic for you. Whats next, Mill Hill East?


Eh? Ridership on the WLL has gone up greatly - well the service didn't even
exist twenty years ago - but ridership on the District line Olympia trains
is generally very low.

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:11:57 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Eh? Ridership on the WLL has gone up greatly - well the service didn't even
exist twenty years ago - but ridership on the District line Olympia trains
is generally very low.

So not many people change from the WLL to the district line to go to work then?
I find that very ... odd. And what about exhibitions?

If ridership is really that low why are they cutting the service now after a
century? The WLL doesn't cover the same route so thats irrelevant. Cost
cutting again no doubt.

B2003

In article , d ()
wrote:

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:11:57 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Eh? Ridership on the WLL has gone up greatly - well the service didn't
even exist twenty years ago - but ridership on the District line
Olympia trains is generally very low.

So not many people change from the WLL to the district line to go to
work then? I find that very ... odd. And what about exhibitions?

If ridership is really that low why are they cutting the service
now after a century? The WLL doesn't cover the same route so thats
irrelevant. Cost cutting again no doubt.

Olympia had an exhibition-only service until not so long ago. 10 or 20
years?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:11:57 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Eh? Ridership on the WLL has gone up greatly - well the service
didn't even exist twenty years ago - but ridership on the District
line Olympia trains is generally very low.

So not many people change from the WLL to the district line to go to
work then? I find that very ... odd. And what about exhibitions?

If ridership is really that low why are they cutting the service now
after a century? The WLL doesn't cover the same route so thats
irrelevant. Cost cutting again no doubt.

Probably more a case of making better use of limited platform capacity
at Earl's Court.