On Jul 12, 6:07*pm, "Zen83237" wrote:
"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in message

...
On Jul 11, 6:47 pm, "Zen83237" wrote:





I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. On a Victoria Line
train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then
sat
for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of air
bleeding the train pulls a few hudred yards into the tunnel then comes to
a
very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more sounds of
bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This happens several
more times.
Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train
wasn't withdrawn so think ok.
A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the
train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the
doors
still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors, well people
needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors open.
The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half out of
the
tunnel. Eventually get turfed off. Nearly have a punch up on the escalator
with the **** who thinks it is fine to barge in ahead of everybody else..
Then have the privilege of having to swipe out to get out of the now
closed
station.
So all in all nearly killed on the train, involved in a fight with an
ignorant ****, half an hour late home and paid a full zone 2 to zone 1
station and having to walk to Euston.Well done London Underground. I take
it
that it was a technical fault. I would hate to think there will be more
strikes because a driver was sacked for overiding safety protocols.
Now when are those Olympics.

Kevin

I have to say that I found your post difficult to get to the heart of.
Until I got past the first half of the post all I seemed seemed to
hear about was the train failure.- so what, these things happen. Then,
halfway through the post, you told us in two successive sentences that
(1) the train couldn't move because the doors were open and then (2)
that the train moved even with the doors open. The latter should never
happen, though it would have helped our understanding if you'd told us
whether or not it affected all the doors or just one set, and whether
the doors were completely open or just a centimetre or two. On top of
this you do seem a bit prone to exaggeration; you can't say on the one
hand that you *nearly* had a punch-up on the escalator and on the
other that you were involved in a fight - one or other can't be true.
Furthermore, you were affronted by your fellow passenger barging in
and remonstrated with him, so one might wonder whether it was you
picking a fight with him instead of him with you.

You say that "So what if Warren Street is close to Euston, I have paid
for Hammersmith to Euston, not Warren Street." To be pedantic, you
didn't, you paid for a journey to Zone 1. In fact, you paid the same
as for a journey to Finsbury Park but you didn't complain about
'wasting' part of that by getting off at Euston.

Read a well-written article in a good newspaper - you will see that
the core of the matter is dealt with in the very first paragraph, not
mentioned in passing in a whole load of other ranting. You might get
more support if you learned this skill.

And I trust that you have contacted RAIB, not just vented your anger
here.

How would I know if the doors in other carriages were open or not. I assumed
the whole train but that was only my assumption.
Sorry but I think for a **** up on that scale a rant is deserved. No it
should happen so why did it
The Evening Standard said, the train travelled a carriage length, incorrect.
The driver performed an emergeny stop, rebooted the computer and closed the
doors. In correct.
A Tfl spokes woman said A NB Vic Line train at Warren St moved a short
distance along the platform with the platform doors(??????) of one carriage
not properly shut. No, they were fully open. Nice of TfL to lie. They also
failed to mention the problems the train had on its way from Oxford Circus.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you ask any police officer they will tell you that the number of
different and contradictory accounts of any event will be the same as
the number of witnesses there are to it. And none of them will be
completely borne out by CCTV evidence.

In message
, at
05:46:35 on Wed, 13 Jul 2011, W14_Fishbourne
remarked:

The Evening Standard said, the train travelled a carriage length, incorrect.

If you ask any police officer they will tell you that the number of
different and contradictory accounts of any event will be the same as
the number of witnesses there are to it. And none of them will be
completely borne out by CCTV evidence.

Some things are easier to corroborate than others. The number of coaches
inside the tunnel can be worked out pretty easily, if necessary by
counting the number still in the platform.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:47:59 +0100, Zen83237 wrote:

On a Victoria Line
train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then
sat for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of
air bleeding the train pulls a few hudred yards into the tunnel then
comes to a very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more
sounds of bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This
happens several more times.

Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train
wasn't withdrawn so think ok.

A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the
train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the
doors still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors,
well people needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors
open. The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half
out of the tunnel. Eventually get turfed off.

There's two news reports on the web:

url:http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...9134-mind-the-
doors-then-tube-train-leaves-station-with-them-still-open.do

url:http://www.tntmagazine.com/tnt-today...2/tube-leaves-
station-with-doors-open.aspx

In the evening standard (thisislondon) report a TfL spokesman said "No
one was hurt. London Underground is immediately investigating why this
may have occurred and the train has been taken out of service. We
apologise to any passengers who were concerned by the incident."

No mention of RAIB, and when I spoke to the RAIB reporting point after
reading the first internet post about the incident, they weren't aware of
the occurrence. Could TfL may have "forgotten" to notify RAIB? Shouldn't
the train be quarantined in situ until RAIB either attend or agree it's
movement?

Rgds

Denis McMahon

wrote:

(David Cantrell) wrote:

Oh, I didn't know that existed. Thanks! Does something similar exist
for other Oystery problems, and if so have they sorted out the bad
design that requires people go to a TfL station to pick up their
refunds?

I got a refund (by phoning the helpline) paid into my bank account. The
payment came from "TRANSPORT TRADING". I did mention it here.

Transport Trading Ltd is a major subsidiary company of TfL:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/4510.aspx#ttl

On Jul 13, 2:27*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

Some things are easier to corroborate than others. The number of coaches
inside the tunnel can be worked out pretty easily, if necessary by
counting the number still in the platform.
--

Maybe so, and the CCTV on the platform should enable that to be worked
out, but I bet that eye-witness reports will vary from "the front of
the train had just entered the tunnel" to "almost the whole train was
in the tunnel".

On Jul 13, 5:31*pm, Denis McMahon wrote:

No mention of RAIB, and when I spoke to the RAIB reporting point after
reading the first internet post about the incident, they weren't aware of
the occurrence.

If they'd told you that they were aware of the incident you might have
assumed they knew all about it and not have been so forthcoming.

Shouldn't the train be quarantined in situ until RAIB either attend or agree it's
movement?


And create even more havoc? These days everything to do with the train
is recorded, what more will be discovered by examining it in situ?

"David Cantrell" wrote:

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:56:07PM +0100, Mizter T wrote:
[snip]
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/refunds/tuberefund/

Oh, I didn't know that existed. Thanks! Does something similar exist
for other Oystery problems, and if so have they sorted out the bad
design that requires people go to a TfL station to pick up their
refunds?

There is a variety of secure online contact forms regarding to Oyster issues
buried in the 'Help & contact' tree here - http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact -
how successful that is w.r.t. dealing with 'Oystery problems' I don't know
(e.g. see Recliner's problems in his post above).

Refunds can be picked up when travelling from or to any station in London
(including NR stations), it's not just TfL stations - though I think some
people have suggested there might be a few stations missing from the list?
One needs to be making a journey from or to that station, the refund can't
just be picked up from a ticket machine.

wrote:

In article , (Mizter T)
wrote:

wrote:
[snip]
Oh, right. Total waste of time then.

Total waste of time for those people who've been delayed on a Tube
journey for 15+ minutes and wish to claim a refund as per the
customer charter - how do you figure that one out?

Total waste of time to get refunds when people have been overcharged on
Oyster, even if it is a consequence of a 15+ minutes journey delay, I
meant.

The Oyster maximum journey time limits are fairly generous - I wouldn't
generally expect a 'normal' delay on the Tube (of say 20 mins or whatever)
to bust them.

I posted the link to the Tube refund webform in response to a comment
suggesting that the only way of claiming a refund / compensation for
disrupted Tube journey (i.e. under the Customer Charter) was by telephone -
I didn't claim it dealt with wider Oyster charging issues.

"Recliner" wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

P.S. Haven't people had success with getting refunds for timeout type
situations by using the secure contact form here
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact ? (Yes, I know it's another web form!)

I found you just get an email apology, but no action, when you complain
about Oyster time-outs on-line. I had to call the helpline, which was
decidedly unhelpful, but eventually coughed up after quite an argument (I
had to remind the operator that the call was probably being recorded, so
he'd better be more helpful). You can also try a ticket office, if you can
find one open, and they seem to have some limited power to deal with it,
as long as you do it within a week or so.

That's disappointing to hear.

I must work harder to try and get some unresolved journeys as a result of
OSI time-out issues so I can experience this first hand.

That said, the Oyster bods do seem to do some sort of trawl for likely
Oyster OSI time-out related double charges, which can then result in the
automated (and suitably vague) "Due to operational issues..." email
proffering a refund appearing few days later. I guess one suggestion is that
those people with registered Oyster cards could try waiting for a few days
to see if such an email arrives before initiating contact themselves.

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:

wrote

I really hate online web forms because you don't get a copy of what
you wrote for your own records. Or is this one unlike all the others?
I wasn't aware of the form and used the phone last time.

A very few let you have a copy by automatically or on request sending
one to the email address that you give or are registered with. Not
rocket science.

Copy/paste also (mostly) works.

Does the apology letter copy the details you gave ?


Print to a PDF file or equivalent?

Agree that having no record of what you said can be pretty unsatisfactory.