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I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. On a Victoria Line
train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then sat for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of air bleeding the train pulls a few hudred yards into the tunnel then comes to a very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more sounds of bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This happens several more times. Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train wasn't withdrawn so think ok. A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the doors still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors, well people needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors open. The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half out of the tunnel. Eventually get turfed off. Nearly have a punch up on the escalator with the **** who thinks it is fine to barge in ahead of everybody else. Then have the privilege of having to swipe out to get out of the now closed station. So all in all nearly killed on the train, involved in a fight with an ignorant ****, half an hour late home and paid a full zone 2 to zone 1 station and having to walk to Euston.Well done London Underground. I take it that it was a technical fault. I would hate to think there will be more strikes because a driver was sacked for overiding safety protocols. Now when are those Olympics. Kevin |
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On Jul 11, 6:47*pm, "Zen83237" wrote:
I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. On a Victoria Line train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then sat for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of air bleeding the train pulls *a few hudred yards into the tunnel then comes to a very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more sounds of bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This happens several more times. Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train wasn't withdrawn so think ok. A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the doors still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors, well people needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors open. The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half out of the tunnel. Eventually get turfed off. Nearly have a punch up on the escalator with the **** who thinks it is fine to barge in ahead of everybody else. Then have the privilege of having to swipe out to get out of the now closed station. So all in all nearly killed on the train, involved in a fight with an ignorant ****, half an hour late home and paid a full zone 2 to zone 1 station and having to walk to Euston.Well done London Underground. I take it that it was a technical fault. I would hate to think there will be more strikes because a driver was sacked for overiding safety protocols. Now when are those Olympics. Kevin Nearly killed on a train? What by? An over active sense of the dramatic? |
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Jon Porter wrote:
On Jul 11, 6:47 pm, "Zen83237" wrote: I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. On a Victoria Line train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then sat for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of air bleeding the train pulls a few hudred yards into the tunnel then comes to a very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more sounds of bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This happens several more times. Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train wasn't withdrawn so think ok. A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the doors still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors, well people needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors open. The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half out of the tunnel. Eventually get turfed off. Nearly have a punch up on the escalator with the **** who thinks it is fine to barge in ahead of everybody else. Then have the privilege of having to swipe out to get out of the now closed station. So all in all nearly killed on the train, involved in a fight with an ignorant ****, half an hour late home and paid a full zone 2 to zone 1 station and having to walk to Euston.Well done London Underground. I take it that it was a technical fault. I would hate to think there will be more strikes because a driver was sacked for overiding safety protocols. Now when are those Olympics. Kevin Nearly killed on a train? What by? An over active sense of the dramatic? obviousThe train should not have been moving with the doors open under any circumstances/obvious - whilst an adult might have been OK, what if a little kid had bolted for the doors (etc etc)? -- Tim Watts |
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On Jul 11, 6:47*pm, "Zen83237" wrote: I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. On a Victoria Line train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then sat for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of air bleeding the train pulls *a few hudred yards into the tunnel then comes to a very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more sounds of bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This happens several more times. Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train wasn't withdrawn so think ok. A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the doors still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors, well people needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors open. The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half out of the tunnel. Eventually get turfed off. Nearly have a punch up on the escalator with the **** who thinks it is fine to barge in ahead of everybody else. Then have the privilege of having to swipe out to get out of the now closed station. So all in all nearly killed on the train, involved in a fight with an ignorant ****, half an hour late home and paid a full zone 2 to zone 1 station and having to walk to Euston.Well done London Underground. I take it that it was a technical fault. I would hate to think there will be more strikes because a driver was sacked for overiding safety protocols. Now when are those Olympics. How were your nearly killed on the train? How is the ignorant so-and-so LU's responsibility? Warren Street to Euston isn't very far to walk. Cue a response calling me an apologist - I'm not, I'm just taking issue with aspects of your rant which don't dispose me to look favourably on your complaints. I was expecting a proper tale of real woe. This ain't one. Get over yourself. |
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On Jul 11, 7:34*pm, Tim Watts wrote: Jon Porter wrote: On Jul 11, 6:47 pm, "Zen83237" wrote: I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. On a Victoria Line train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then sat for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of air bleeding the train pulls *a few hudred yards into the tunnel then comes to a very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more sounds of bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This happens several more times. Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train wasn't withdrawn so think ok. A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the doors still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors, well people needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors open. The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half out of the tunnel. Eventually get turfed off. Nearly have a punch up on the escalator with the **** who thinks it is fine to barge in ahead of everybody else. Then have the privilege of having to swipe out to get out of the now closed station. So all in all nearly killed on the train, involved in a fight with an ignorant ****, half an hour late home and paid a full zone 2 to zone 1 station and having to walk to Euston.Well done London Underground. I take it that it was a technical fault. I would hate to think there will be more strikes because a driver was sacked for overiding safety protocols. Now when are those Olympics. Nearly killed on a train? What by? An over active sense of the dramatic? obviousThe train should not have been moving with the doors open under any circumstances/obvious - whilst an adult might have been OK, what if a little kid had bolted for the doors (etc etc)? OK, missed that on my first reading of his rant - mea culpa. |
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"Mizter T" wrote in message ... On Jul 11, 6:47 pm, "Zen83237" wrote: I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. On a Victoria Line train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then sat for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of air bleeding the train pulls a few hudred yards into the tunnel then comes to a very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more sounds of bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This happens several more times. Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train wasn't withdrawn so think ok. A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the doors still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors, well people needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors open. The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half out of the tunnel. Eventually get turfed off. Nearly have a punch up on the escalator with the **** who thinks it is fine to barge in ahead of everybody else. Then have the privilege of having to swipe out to get out of the now closed station. So all in all nearly killed on the train, involved in a fight with an ignorant ****, half an hour late home and paid a full zone 2 to zone 1 station and having to walk to Euston.Well done London Underground. I take it that it was a technical fault. I would hate to think there will be more strikes because a driver was sacked for overiding safety protocols. Now when are those Olympics. How were your nearly killed on the train? How is the ignorant so-and-so LU's responsibility? Warren Street to Euston isn't very far to walk. Cue a response calling me an apologist - I'm not, I'm just taking issue with aspects of your rant which don't dispose me to look favourably on your complaints. I was expecting a proper tale of real woe. This ain't one. Get over yourself. Well lets think about this. It is ok for tube trains to be in motion with the doors open. This is in the rush hour. The trains are crowded people are standing next to an open door, they can be accidently pushed or jolted out of the train. Had the incident not happened there would have been a mass exidus from the station. So what if Warren Street is close to Euston, I have paid for Hammersmith to Euston, not Warren Street. Lets say somebody had been killed as a result. No doubt we would have heard blah blah blah, lessons learnt blah blah blah. This kind of lethagy caused the Kings Cross fire, blah blah lessons learnt blah blah. Surley isn't too much to ****ing ask to have a safety cut, doors open, train can't go. Even I could design that. You must work for LUL to support them for a safety failure. |
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Zen83237 wrote on 11 July 2011 20:38:18 ...
Surley isn't too much to ****ing ask to have a safety cut, doors open, train can't go. Even I could design that. You must work for LUL to support them for a safety failure. If you'd confined your post to the fact that the train departed with the doors open instead of ranting on and on about other things, you wouldn't have had that reaction. A train departing with open doors is serious, so perhaps you can tell us more about the incident. Was it just one door that stayed open or were they all open? Were they fully open or partly closed? Did you or anyone else in your car press the alarm button as soon as the train moved with doors open? Sounds to me like an incident that RAIB should take an interest in. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
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"Richard J." wrote in message ... Zen83237 wrote on 11 July 2011 20:38:18 ... Surley isn't too much to ****ing ask to have a safety cut, doors open, train can't go. Even I could design that. You must work for LUL to support them for a safety failure. If you'd confined your post to the fact that the train departed with the doors open instead of ranting on and on about other things, you wouldn't have had that reaction. A train departing with open doors is serious, so perhaps you can tell us more about the incident. Was it just one door that stayed open or were they all open? Were they fully open or partly closed? Did you or anyone else in your car press the alarm button as soon as the train moved with doors open? Sounds to me like an incident that RAIB should take an interest in. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) RAIB would be very interested |
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On Jul 11, 9:18*pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Zen83237 wrote on 11 July 2011 20:38:18 ... If you'd confined your post to the fact that the train departed with the doors open instead of ranting on and on about other things, you wouldn't have had that reaction. A train departing with open doors is serious, so perhaps you can tell us more about the incident. * I'd have to agree, The ARE all sorts of protections about trains with doors **** etc. If OP had confined rant to this aspect, or made this the headline, instead of all the other rants I suspect it would be taken more seriously. AFAIK train moving off with doors open is RAIB, the recent FCC 377 incident near Kentish Town is with RAIB, they are less interested in the cause of the train failure, more in why it subsequently moved with open doors. -- Nick |
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On Jul 11, 10:16*pm, D7666 wrote:
The ARE all sorts of protections about trains with doors **** etc. Or even shut :o) -- Nick |
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"Pat O'Neill" wrote RAIB would be very interested Indeed. They have previously issued a bulletin with regard to a similar incident. http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources...%2005-2010.pdf It would make more sense for the OP to report the incident to them, in case LUL have failed to do so, rather than rant here However. much of the rest is pure rant. How is the platform attendant (not dispatcher - Victoria Line trains are dispatched by the driver/train operator) to know that there is a problem which means that the train is not actually about to depart? Was Warren Street station actually closed as a result of this incident - I can't see how it would immediately affect the southbound Victoria Line, or the Northern Line. And if the gateline was still in operation, it will at least mean that PAYG passengers have evidence of leaving at Warren Street, so can no doubt get their fare refunded or compensation for the disrupted journey. Peter |
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"Zen83237" wrote: "Mizter T" wrote: How were your nearly killed on the train? How is the ignorant so-and-so LU's responsibility? Warren Street to Euston isn't very far to walk. Cue a response calling me an apologist - I'm not, I'm just taking issue with aspects of your rant which don't dispose me to look favourably on your complaints. I was expecting a proper tale of real woe. This ain't one. Get over yourself. Well lets think about this. It is ok for tube trains to be in motion with the doors open. This is in the rush hour. The trains are crowded people are standing next to an open door, they can be accidently pushed or jolted out of the train. Had the incident not happened there would have been a mass exidus from the station. So what if Warren Street is close to Euston, I have paid for Hammersmith to Euston, not Warren Street. Lets say somebody had been killed as a result. No doubt we would have heard blah blah blah, lessons learnt blah blah blah. This kind of lethagy caused the Kings Cross fire, blah blah lessons learnt blah blah. Surley isn't too much to ****ing ask to have a safety cut, doors open, train can't go. Even I could design that. You must work for LUL to support them for a safety failure. I missed the crucial fact about the doors being open whilst the train was in motion as it was buried in amongst the rest of your particularly un-Zen-like rant - it would have been preferable if you had structured your post rather differently and made the door issue your primary focus, because that is indeed the overwhelming issue at hand - some guy barging into you on the escalator, or having to walk from Warren St to Euston, are but tertiary issues compared to that happening. A door of a train being open whilst it's in motion is indeed a major safety issue and a serious concern. And no, I don't work for LUL (or Bombardier etc). |
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On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:20:00PM +0100, Peter Masson wrote:
And if the gateline was still in operation, it will at least mean that PAYG passengers have evidence of leaving at Warren Street, so can no doubt get their fare refunded or compensation for the disrupted journey. Assuming that they jump through TfL's expensive and inconvenient hoops to do so. -- David Cantrell | semi-evolved ape-thing There's no problem so complex that it can't be solved by killing everyone even remotely associated with it |
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"David Cantrell" wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:20:00PM +0100, Peter Masson wrote: And if the gateline was still in operation, it will at least mean that PAYG passengers have evidence of leaving at Warren Street, so can no doubt get their fare refunded or compensation for the disrupted journey. Assuming that they jump through TfL's expensive and inconvenient hoops to do so. You mean filling out a secure online web form? http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/refunds/tuberefund/ |
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On Jul 11, 6:47*pm, "Zen83237" wrote:
I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. On a Victoria Line train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then sat for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of air bleeding the train pulls *a few hudred yards into the tunnel then comes to a very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more sounds of bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This happens several more times. Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train wasn't withdrawn so think ok. A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the doors still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors, well people needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors open. The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half out of the tunnel. Eventually get turfed off. Nearly have a punch up on the escalator with the **** who thinks it is fine to barge in ahead of everybody else. Then have the privilege of having to swipe out to get out of the now closed station. So all in all nearly killed on the train, involved in a fight with an ignorant ****, half an hour late home and paid a full zone 2 to zone 1 station and having to walk to Euston.Well done London Underground. I take it that it was a technical fault. I would hate to think there will be more strikes because a driver was sacked for overiding safety protocols. Now when are those Olympics. Kevin I have to say that I found your post difficult to get to the heart of. Until I got past the first half of the post all I seemed seemed to hear about was the train failure.- so what, these things happen. Then, halfway through the post, you told us in two successive sentences that (1) the train couldn't move because the doors were open and then (2) that the train moved even with the doors open. The latter should never happen, though it would have helped our understanding if you'd told us whether or not it affected all the doors or just one set, and whether the doors were completely open or just a centimetre or two. On top of this you do seem a bit prone to exaggeration; you can't say on the one hand that you *nearly* had a punch-up on the escalator and on the other that you were involved in a fight - one or other can't be true. Furthermore, you were affronted by your fellow passenger barging in and remonstrated with him, so one might wonder whether it was you picking a fight with him instead of him with you. You say that "So what if Warren Street is close to Euston, I have paid for Hammersmith to Euston, not Warren Street." To be pedantic, you didn't, you paid for a journey to Zone 1. In fact, you paid the same as for a journey to Finsbury Park but you didn't complain about 'wasting' part of that by getting off at Euston. Read a well-written article in a good newspaper - you will see that the core of the matter is dealt with in the very first paragraph, not mentioned in passing in a whole load of other ranting. You might get more support if you learned this skill. And I trust that you have contacted RAIB, not just vented your anger here. |
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wrote in message
In article , (Mizter T) wrote: "David Cantrell" wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:20:00PM +0100, Peter Masson wrote: And if the gateline was still in operation, it will at least mean that PAYG passengers have evidence of leaving at Warren Street, so can no doubt get their fare refunded orcompensation for the disrupted journey. Assuming that they jump through TfL's expensive and inconvenient hoops to do so. You mean filling out a secure online web form? http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/refunds/tuberefund/ I really hate online web forms because you don't get a copy of what you wrote for your own records. Or is this one unlike all the others? I wasn't aware of the form and used the phone last time. I've used that form, and as you say, it doesn't give you a copy of the complaint's details, just a complaint number. You only discover that your complaint has been successful when an envelope arrives in the post some weeks later with a standard apology letter and the voucher you have to give to an LU ticket office, if you can find one that's open. I would have thought they should send an email to say that the refund was in the post, and perhaps provide an option to get it credited automatically to your Oyster pre-pay balance. It also only allows you to claim back the fare of a journey delayed by 15+ minutes, but doesn't provide a way to deal with Oyster overcharges (for example, if the delay is long, you'll probably also get charged for two incomplete journeys) which I think can only be dealt with on the phone. |
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In article ,
(Recliner) wrote: wrote in message In article , (Mizter T) wrote: "David Cantrell" wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:20:00PM +0100, Peter Masson wrote: And if the gateline was still in operation, it will at least mean that PAYG passengers have evidence of leaving at Warren Street, so can no doubt get their fare refunded orcompensation for the disrupted journey. Assuming that they jump through TfL's expensive and inconvenient hoops to do so. You mean filling out a secure online web form? http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/refunds/tuberefund/ I really hate online web forms because you don't get a copy of what you wrote for your own records. Or is this one unlike all the others? I wasn't aware of the form and used the phone last time. I've used that form, and as you say, it doesn't give you a copy of the complaint's details, just a complaint number. You only discover that your complaint has been successful when an envelope arrives in the post some weeks later with a standard apology letter and the voucher you have to give to an LU ticket office, if you can find one that's open. I would have thought they should send an email to say that the refund was in the post, and perhaps provide an option to get it credited automatically to your Oyster pre-pay balance. It also only allows you to claim back the fare of a journey delayed by 15+ minutes, but doesn't provide a way to deal with Oyster overcharges (for example, if the delay is long, you'll probably also get charged for two incomplete journeys) which I think can only be dealt with on the phone. Oh, right. Total waste of time then. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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"It might be a bit off topic but if you wanted to go from Hammersmith to Euston why didn't you use the Hammersmith and City Line to Euston Square? Just a thought |
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"Richard J." wrote in message ... Zen83237 wrote on 11 July 2011 20:38:18 ... Surley isn't too much to ****ing ask to have a safety cut, doors open, train can't go. Even I could design that. You must work for LUL to support them for a safety failure. If you'd confined your post to the fact that the train departed with the doors open instead of ranting on and on about other things, you wouldn't have had that reaction. A train departing with open doors is serious, so perhaps you can tell us more about the incident. Was it just one door that stayed open or were they all open? Were they fully open or partly closed? Did you or anyone else in your car press the alarm button as soon as the train moved with doors open? Sounds to me like an incident that RAIB should take an interest in. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) Read about it and see the train in the Evening News. Very annoyed that LUL lied about the incident to play it down. |
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"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in message ... On Jul 11, 6:47 pm, "Zen83237" wrote: I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. On a Victoria Line train at about 5.20 pm that after the doors closed at Oxford Circus then sat for a couple of minutes unable to start. After a lot of sounds of air bleeding the train pulls a few hudred yards into the tunnel then comes to a very abrupt stop. Waits for 5 minutes, no announcements. more sounds of bleeding air then sets off and again abruptly stops. This happens several more times. Get to Warren St and I was in two mids whether to get off. But the train wasn't withdrawn so think ok. A lot of very abrupt announcements from the dispatcher not to join the train, the doors are closing but the train still didn't move with the doors still open. More announcements to beware of the closing doors, well people needn't have worried because the train pulled out with doors open. The doors finally closed as we abruptly stopped half in and half out of the tunnel. Eventually get turfed off. Nearly have a punch up on the escalator with the **** who thinks it is fine to barge in ahead of everybody else. Then have the privilege of having to swipe out to get out of the now closed station. So all in all nearly killed on the train, involved in a fight with an ignorant ****, half an hour late home and paid a full zone 2 to zone 1 station and having to walk to Euston.Well done London Underground. I take it that it was a technical fault. I would hate to think there will be more strikes because a driver was sacked for overiding safety protocols. Now when are those Olympics. Kevin I have to say that I found your post difficult to get to the heart of. Until I got past the first half of the post all I seemed seemed to hear about was the train failure.- so what, these things happen. Then, halfway through the post, you told us in two successive sentences that (1) the train couldn't move because the doors were open and then (2) that the train moved even with the doors open. The latter should never happen, though it would have helped our understanding if you'd told us whether or not it affected all the doors or just one set, and whether the doors were completely open or just a centimetre or two. On top of this you do seem a bit prone to exaggeration; you can't say on the one hand that you *nearly* had a punch-up on the escalator and on the other that you were involved in a fight - one or other can't be true. Furthermore, you were affronted by your fellow passenger barging in and remonstrated with him, so one might wonder whether it was you picking a fight with him instead of him with you. You say that "So what if Warren Street is close to Euston, I have paid for Hammersmith to Euston, not Warren Street." To be pedantic, you didn't, you paid for a journey to Zone 1. In fact, you paid the same as for a journey to Finsbury Park but you didn't complain about 'wasting' part of that by getting off at Euston. Read a well-written article in a good newspaper - you will see that the core of the matter is dealt with in the very first paragraph, not mentioned in passing in a whole load of other ranting. You might get more support if you learned this skill. And I trust that you have contacted RAIB, not just vented your anger here. How would I know if the doors in other carriages were open or not. I assumed the whole train but that was only my assumption. Sorry but I think for a **** up on that scale a rant is deserved. No it should happen so why did it The Evening Standard said, the train travelled a carriage length, incorrect. The driver performed an emergeny stop, rebooted the computer and closed the doors. In correct. A Tfl spokes woman said A NB Vic Line train at Warren St moved a short distance along the platform with the platform doors(??????) of one carriage not properly shut. No, they were fully open. Nice of TfL to lie. They also failed to mention the problems the train had on its way from Oxford Circus. |
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"Paul Rigg" wrote in message ... "It might be a bit off topic but if you wanted to go from Hammersmith to Euston why didn't you use the Hammersmith and City Line to Euston Square? Just a thought UMMMM because it is quicker? |
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"Mizter T" wrote in message ... "Zen83237" wrote: "Mizter T" wrote: How were your nearly killed on the train? How is the ignorant so-and-so LU's responsibility? Warren Street to Euston isn't very far to walk. Cue a response calling me an apologist - I'm not, I'm just taking issue with aspects of your rant which don't dispose me to look favourably on your complaints. I was expecting a proper tale of real woe. This ain't one. Get over yourself. Well lets think about this. It is ok for tube trains to be in motion with the doors open. This is in the rush hour. The trains are crowded people are standing next to an open door, they can be accidently pushed or jolted out of the train. Had the incident not happened there would have been a mass exidus from the station. So what if Warren Street is close to Euston, I have paid for Hammersmith to Euston, not Warren Street. Lets say somebody had been killed as a result. No doubt we would have heard blah blah blah, lessons learnt blah blah blah. This kind of lethagy caused the Kings Cross fire, blah blah lessons learnt blah blah. Surley isn't too much to ****ing ask to have a safety cut, doors open, train can't go. Even I could design that. You must work for LUL to support them for a safety failure. I missed the crucial fact about the doors being open whilst the train was in motion as it was buried in amongst the rest of your particularly un-Zen-like rant - it would have been preferable if you had structured your post rather differently and made the door issue your primary focus, because that is indeed the overwhelming issue at hand - some guy barging into you on the escalator, or having to walk from Warren St to Euston, are but tertiary issues compared to that happening. A door of a train being open whilst it's in motion is indeed a major safety issue and a serious concern. And no, I don't work for LUL (or Bombardier etc). Not my problem if you can't read and digest a post. You did read about the bit about the problems from Oxford Circus to Warren Street or did you miss that as well. |
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Zen83237 wrote:
Not my problem if you can't read and digest a post. I think you'll find it is your problem... If you wish to communicate with other English speakers, it pays to write clearly. Although I did get to the botom of what you were saying, it was hard work and some facts remain unclear. -- Tim Watts |
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On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 18:07:38 +0100 [UTC], Zen83237 wrote:
[big snip] Sorry but I think for a **** up on that scale a rant is deserved. If you're only concerned with ranting you may as well go and stand on a street corner shouting at passers-by. If, on the other hand, you want some sensible reactions and possibly advice about the best ways to get something done about what is indeed a serious issue, it might help if you calm down, stop ranting at people who don't respond the way you want - and post messages that are actually readable. Otherwise people won't even bother reading your messages and you'll be wasting your time. (Before you ask, no, I don't work for LU or any bit of TfL or have anything to do with LU trains) -- Ross Speaking for me, myself and I. Nobody else - unless I make it clear that I am... |
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"Ross" wrote in message ... On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 18:07:38 +0100 [UTC], Zen83237 wrote: [big snip] Sorry but I think for a **** up on that scale a rant is deserved. If you're only concerned with ranting you may as well go and stand on a street corner shouting at passers-by. If, on the other hand, you want some sensible reactions and possibly advice about the best ways to get something done about what is indeed a serious issue, it might help if you calm down, stop ranting at people who don't respond the way you want - and post messages that are actually readable. Otherwise people won't even bother reading your messages and you'll be wasting your time. (Before you ask, no, I don't work for LU or any bit of TfL or have anything to do with LU trains) -- Ross Speaking for me, myself and I. Nobody else - unless I make it clear that I am... Well had it been left to people reading the TfL report they would have successfully swept the problem under the carpet. I assume you would rather believe the TfL version. Rant or not enough people read it. You can read a more coherent report in the Evening Standard but the only correct facts in the report were that it was a Victoria Line Train and it did happen at Warren Street. |
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On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:29:03 +0100 [UTC], Zen83237 wrote:
"Ross" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 18:07:38 +0100 [UTC], Zen83237 wrote: [big snip] Sorry but I think for a **** up on that scale a rant is deserved. If you're only concerned with ranting you may as well go and stand on a street corner shouting at passers-by. If, on the other hand, you want some sensible reactions and possibly advice about the best ways to get something done about what is indeed a serious issue, it might help if you calm down, stop ranting at people who don't respond the way you want - and post messages that are actually readable. Otherwise people won't even bother reading your messages and you'll be wasting your time. (Before you ask, no, I don't work for LU or any bit of TfL or have anything to do with LU trains) [...] Well had it been left to people reading the TfL report they would have successfully swept the problem under the carpet. I assume you would rather believe the TfL version. You do make some rather huge assumptions, starting with assuming that we know any more than what you've told us. So: What TfL version? What TfL report? Note - in railway language a report is a formal document, not (for example) the bull some spokescritter comes out with when a journalist phones up. If there is a TfL Report, that means there has been an investigation. From experience investigations take time - as in weeks, not days or hours. So: When did this incident happen? Your original posting implied it had only just happened (i.e. sometime today), but if there's a TfL Report then it happened some time ago. If it did happen today, then not only has there not yet been a report, there hasn't been time for an investigation either. Rant or not enough people read it. Only until they get bored of it, as I for one am now doing. Have you noticed how fewer and fewer people are replying to you? That should tell you something: it suggests that people are beginning to ignore you. It's simple, really; you can either post reasonably and get both understanding of the issue (and how it's affected you), and advice of what you need to do and how to escalate beyond TfL to the important people, or you can carry on ranting at everyone, carry on asserting that we're opposed to you - and carry on being ignored by more and more people. -- Ross Speaking for me, myself and I. Nobody else - unless I make it clear that I am... |
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On 12/07/2011 21:23, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:55:04 +0100, wrote: So: What TfL version? What TfL report? Note - in railway language a report is a formal document, not (for example) the bull some spokescritter comes out with when a journalist phones up. If there is a TfL Report, that means there has been an investigation. From experience investigations take time - as in weeks, not days or hours. So: When did this incident happen? Your original posting implied it had only just happened (i.e. sometime today), but if there's a TfL Report then it happened some time ago. If it did happen today, then not only has there not yet been a report, there hasn't been time for an investigation either. I am sure the OP will respond for himself but I think he is referring to the TfL response in the Evening Standard article. This is available on line on the ES site but I believe it is from a "spokescritter" as you so eloquently put it ;-) Loved how that article lead off by describing passengers as "terrified." |
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On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:29:03 +0100, Zen83237 wrote:
Well had it been left to people reading the TfL report they would have successfully swept the problem under the carpet. I assume you would rather believe the TfL version. Rant or not enough people read it. You can read a more coherent report in the Evening Standard but the only correct facts in the report were that it was a Victoria Line Train and it did happen at Warren Street. The RAIB website is at: http://www.raib.gov.uk/ There are phone numbers, on line contact forms and downloadable and post- in able forms that you can use to contact them and inform them about such issues. Unfortunately, the people that answer their phones seem to have trouble comprehending anything other than "a blog". However, I did convey the facts you presented here last night to their 24/7 reporting number yesterday evening when I read your post, and followed the report up with a link to your post on google groups. However, I had to stress that I had no direct knowledge of the incident, but was instead reporting what I had seen posted on the internet by another person whose identity and thus veracity I had no means of verifying. You may thus wish to contact them yourself. They are interested in witness statements following such events. Rgds Denis McMahon |
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On Jul 11, 6:47*pm, "Zen83237" wrote:
I think thanks is in order for completely ****ing up. No! In this country the opposite reaction is usual. |
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wrote: In article , (Recliner) wrote: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/refunds/tuberefund/ I really hate online web forms because you don't get a copy of what you wrote for your own records. Or is this one unlike all the others? I wasn't aware of the form and used the phone last time. I've used that form, and as you say, it doesn't give you a copy of the complaint's details, just a complaint number. You only discover that your complaint has been successful when an envelope arrives in the post some weeks later with a standard apology letter and the voucher you have to give to an LU ticket office, if you can find one that's open. I would have thought they should send an email to say that the refund was in the post, and perhaps provide an option to get it credited automatically to your Oyster pre-pay balance. It also only allows you to claim back the fare of a journey delayed by 15+ minutes, but doesn't provide a way to deal with Oyster overcharges (for example, if the delay is long, you'll probably also get charged for two incomplete journeys) which I think can only be dealt with on the phone. Oh, right. Total waste of time then. Total waste of time for those people who've been delayed on a Tube journey for 15+ minutes and wish to claim a refund as per the customer charter - how do you figure that one out? P.S. Haven't people had success with getting refunds for timeout type situations by using the secure contact form here http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact ? (Yes, I know it's another web form!) |
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wrote in message
... Loved how that article lead off by describing passengers as "terrified." Their random hyperbole generator usually gets stuck on 'misery' - perhaps it has been fixed? Paul S |
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"Mizter T" wrote in message
wrote: In article , (Recliner) wrote: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/refunds/tuberefund/ I really hate online web forms because you don't get a copy of what you wrote for your own records. Or is this one unlike all the others? I wasn't aware of the form and used the phone last time. I've used that form, and as you say, it doesn't give you a copy of the complaint's details, just a complaint number. You only discover that your complaint has been successful when an envelope arrives in the post some weeks later with a standard apology letter and the voucher you have to give to an LU ticket office, if you can find one that's open. I would have thought they should send an email to say that the refund was in the post, and perhaps provide an option to get it credited automatically to your Oyster pre-pay balance. It also only allows you to claim back the fare of a journey delayed by 15+ minutes, but doesn't provide a way to deal with Oyster overcharges (for example, if the delay is long, you'll probably also get charged for two incomplete journeys) which I think can only be dealt with on the phone. Oh, right. Total waste of time then. Total waste of time for those people who've been delayed on a Tube journey for 15+ minutes and wish to claim a refund as per the customer charter - how do you figure that one out? P.S. Haven't people had success with getting refunds for timeout type situations by using the secure contact form here http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact ? (Yes, I know it's another web form!) I found you just get an email apology, but no action, when you complain about Oyster time-outs on-line. I had to call the helpline, which was decidedly unhelpful, but eventually coughed up after quite an argument (I had to remind the operator that the call was probably being recorded, so he'd better be more helpful). You can also try a ticket office, if you can find one open, and they seem to have some limited power to deal with it, as long as you do it within a week or so. |
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On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:56:07PM +0100, Mizter T wrote:
"David Cantrell" wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:20:00PM +0100, Peter Masson wrote: And if the gateline was still in operation, it will at least mean that PAYG passengers have evidence of leaving at Warren Street, so can no doubt get their fare refunded or compensation for the disrupted journey. Assuming that they jump through TfL's expensive and inconvenient hoops to do so. You mean filling out a secure online web form? http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/refunds/tuberefund/ Oh, I didn't know that existed. Thanks! Does something similar exist for other Oystery problems, and if so have they sorted out the bad design that requires people go to a TfL station to pick up their refunds? -- David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive I remember when computers were frustrating because they did exactly what you told them to. That seems kinda quaint now. -- JD Baldwin, in the Monastery |
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On Jul 13, 11:06*am, "Paul Scott"
wrote: wrote in message ... Loved how that article lead off by describing passengers as "terrified." Their random hyperbole generator usually gets stuck on 'misery' - perhaps it has been fixed? Paul S No, misery is only generated when delay or minor inconvenience is involved, though it is a totally inappropriate word since commuting is, almost by definition, a misearable affair. Terrified is for when something out of the ordinary happens. The average passenger not having a clue as to how the railway works, then becomes terrified. For example, when they see the train driver letting go of the steering wheel they will be terrified that the train will veer across the tracks and crash. Or the wrong colour train turns up and they are terrified that it might transport them to some far-flung and probably hostile part of the country. Oddly, the one circumstance in which very few passengers don't even bat an eye, let alone get terrified, is when the driver applies full emergency braking. |
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