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Overground SLL link
SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he
http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk includes newsletters and photos of the work so far, which may be of interest. Paul S |
Overground SLL link
On Jul 19, 2:00*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote: SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk includes newsletters and photos of the work so far, which may be of interest. Excellent, thank you for posting. Do you have any idea of the timeline for this one? |
Overground SLL link
Do you have any idea of the timeline for this one? There's a broad one at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...mes/15401.aspx (near bottom of the page) -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com |
Overground SLL link
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
... Excellent find - thanks for providing the link. Some of the work seems to be moving along at a cracking pace. I am surprised that some track laying will start in November !! I wonder if they might deliver rails and sleepers via a newly laid Old Kent Rd junction; on the basis that it is the more straightforward route. It needn't be signalled initially as it could be done in a full possession. If they used that Balfour Beatty 'New Track machine' (as seen on Airdrie to Bathgate) they'd get the track laid in a few days... That would also be the least disruptive to the ELL overall, as an approach from the north would mean engineering trains shunting via Surrey Quays? Paul S |
Overground SLL link
On Jul 19, 6:29*pm, "Robin" wrote:
Do you have any idea of the timeline for this one? There's a broad one athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15401.aspx(near bottom of the page) -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com Thank you. In eighteen months we can look forward to circumnavigating the Capital by train. |
Overground SLL link
On Jul 19, 7:22*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:00:52 +0100, "Paul Scott" wrote: SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk includes newsletters and photos of the work so far, which may be of interest. Excellent find - thanks for providing the link. *Some of the work seems to be moving along at a cracking pace. I am surprised that some track laying will start in November !! Great isn't it. Perhaps, like DLR, the Overground will continue to grow. |
Overground SLL link
On 19/07/2011 18:17, 1506 wrote:
On Jul 19, 2:00 pm, "Paul wrote: SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk includes newsletters and photos of the work so far, which may be of interest. Excellent, thank you for posting. Do you have any idea of the timeline for this one? I thought that it was due around mid-2012. |
Overground SLL link
1506 wrote: On Jul 19, 6:29*pm, "Robin" wrote: Do you have any idea of the timeline for this one? There's a broad one athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15401.aspx(near bottom of the page) -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com Thank you. In eighteen months we can look forward to circumnavigating the Capital by train. We can _already_ circumnavigate the capital by train. The only difference is, in eighteen months we'll be able to do it sitting sideways the whole way. Whether or not you look forward to that depends on your personal tastes in the matter. |
Overground SLL link
On 19/07/2011 21:33, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 19:46:52 +0100, "Paul Scott" wrote: "Paul wrote in message ... Excellent find - thanks for providing the link. Some of the work seems to be moving along at a cracking pace. I am surprised that some track laying will start in November !! I wonder if they might deliver rails and sleepers via a newly laid Old Kent Rd junction; on the basis that it is the more straightforward route. It needn't be signalled initially as it could be done in a full possession. If they used that Balfour Beatty 'New Track machine' (as seen on Airdrie to Bathgate) they'd get the track laid in a few days... I was quite surprised to see that Old Kent Rd junction had already been attended to although more work is planned for October. I'm not sure which end they will use - I suspect they might use both. We'll have to wait and see what approach they're taking and I'm not familiar with the machine you mention. The only downside might the fact they've got to get the track through several old viaducts which may restrict the use of clever track laying machines. That would also be the least disruptive to the ELL overall, as an approach from the north would mean engineering trains shunting via Surrey Quays? Well one of the newsletters says that in (IIRC) September the junction at the Surrey Quays end will be put in place. It says there will be some possessions needed to make that happen. While I doubt great big engineering trains will trundle through the Brunel Tunnel I'd not be surprised if there was access via NXG at certain times. I'm almost wondering if there is a secret "target" to see if the line can be up and running for the Olympics rather than the December 2012 timetable change. I thought that this section was to be up and running by the Olympics. |
Overground SLL link
On 19/07/2011 21:17, solar penguin wrote:
1506 wrote: On Jul 19, 6:29 pm, wrote: Do you have any idea of the timeline for this one? There's a broad one athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15401.aspx(near bottom of the page) -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com Thank you. In eighteen months we can look forward to circumnavigating the Capital by train. We can _already_ circumnavigate the capital by train. The only difference is, in eighteen months we'll be able to do it sitting sideways the whole way. Whether or not you look forward to that depends on your personal tastes in the matter. What is the route? |
Overground SLL link
"Paul Corfield" wrote
Well one of the newsletters says that in (IIRC) September the junction at the Surrey Quays end will be put in place. It says there will be some possessions needed to make that happen. It does indeed say that in the second newsletter, but I'm sure the pointwork was already in place before the East London line reopened. |
Overground SLL link
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:53:01 +0100, "
wrote: On 19/07/2011 21:17, solar penguin wrote: 1506 wrote: On Jul 19, 6:29 pm, wrote: Do you have any idea of the timeline for this one? There's a broad one athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15401.aspx(near bottom of the page) -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com Thank you. In eighteen months we can look forward to circumnavigating the Capital by train. We can _already_ circumnavigate the capital by train. The only difference is, in eighteen months we'll be able to do it sitting sideways the whole way. Whether or not you look forward to that depends on your personal tastes in the matter. What is the route? How many do you want ? |
Overground SLL link
"John Salmon" wrote in message
... "Paul Corfield" wrote Well one of the newsletters says that in (IIRC) September the junction at the Surrey Quays end will be put in place. It says there will be some possessions needed to make that happen. It does indeed say that in the second newsletter, but I'm sure the pointwork was already in place before the East London line reopened. It is - the points and short lengths of track are clearly visible from trains (and on the latest Google aerial view). Connection at that end shouldn't be too intrusive assuming work beyond the limits of the existing track (such as in the underpass) is in the green zone. It should only be additions to signalling and subsequent testing that will interrupt normal traffic. Paul S |
Overground SLL link
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:00:52 +0100, "Paul Scott"
SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk Is it reasonable to call it a "frequent" service if there are only 4 trains/hour? -- Clive Page |
Overground SLL link
In message , at 11:58:31 on Wed, 20 Jul
2011, Clive Page remarked: SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk Is it reasonable to call it a "frequent" service if there are only 4 trains/hour? Many people would kill for 4tph. My own view (coloured in some part by being a past user of the outer fringes of the Met line) is that something magic happens between 3tph and 4tph - despite it only reducing the interval by 5 minutes. Such that 4tph is a frequent enough service it's turn-up-and-go for most users. -- Roland Perry |
Overground SLL link
On Jul 20, 11:58*am, Clive Page wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:00:52 +0100, "Paul Scott" SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk Is it reasonable to call it a "frequent" service if there are only 4 trains/hour? In broad terms I'd say yes. It is certainly a decent service level to begin a new rail service with. We're not talking about a tube line nor a tram line in an urban area where the UK expectation would be a service every few minutes. As Roland says many people would kill to have such a service level on their train or bus route. Talking a relevant Overground example - when the GOBLIN was every 20 or 30 minutes I would have to know the departure times as just missing a train would impose too long a wait and it would be worthwhile considering going another way. With the GOBLIN now every 15 minutes I am much more relaxed about "just turning up" although I do know the times anyway! The same applies for the Chingford Line - it's every 15 mins and it's not "the end of the world" if you just miss one. I guess it's all a bit psychological really in terms of people's tolerance of being delayed. -- Paul C via Google |
Overground SLL link
On 20/07/2011 12:32, Roland Perry wrote:
Many people would kill for 4tph. My own view (coloured in some part by being a past user of the outer fringes of the Met line) is that something magic happens between 3tph and 4tph - despite it only reducing the interval by 5 minutes. Such that 4tph is a frequent enough service it's turn-up-and-go for most users. Only if the 4 trains per hour are evenly spaced... The core Shipley to Leeds service has 4 trains per hour. But the trains have departure trains of xx:09, xx:14, xx:39, xx:44. This isn't really turn-up-and-go. -- Jeremy Double {real address, include nospam} Rail and transport photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdoubl...7603834894248/ |
Overground SLL link
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 04:44:44 -0700 (PDT)
plcd1 wrote: In broad terms I'd say yes. It is certainly a decent service level to begin a new rail service with. We're not talking about a tube line nor a tram line in an urban area where the UK expectation would be a But the ELL is essentially being marketed as an almost-tube line so they should back it up with a tube like service. B2003 |
Overground SLL link
In message , at 12:53:11 on
Wed, 20 Jul 2011, Jeremy Double remarked: Many people would kill for 4tph. My own view (coloured in some part by being a past user of the outer fringes of the Met line) is that something magic happens between 3tph and 4tph - despite it only reducing the interval by 5 minutes. Such that 4tph is a frequent enough service it's turn-up-and-go for most users. Only if the 4 trains per hour are evenly spaced... Agreed. I've often said how East Midlands Parkway's 2tph is really two trains once an hour. The core Shipley to Leeds service has 4 trains per hour. But the trains have departure trains of xx:09, xx:14, xx:39, xx:44. This isn't really turn-up-and-go. The airport services at both Amsterdam and Geneva are numerous, but quite poorly spaced, which catches some people out. -- Roland Perry |
Overground SLL link
In message
, plcd1 writes We're not talking about a tube line nor a tram line in an urban area where the UK expectation would be a service every few minutes. Where I live, the maximum frequency (rush hour) for our bus service is 2 busses per hour. -- Clive |
Overground SLL link
On Jul 20, 1:44*pm, plcd1 wrote:
Talking a relevant Overground example - when the GOBLIN was every 20 or 30 minutes I would have to know the departure times as just missing a train would impose too long a wait and it would be worthwhile considering going another way. With the GOBLIN now every 15 minutes I am much more relaxed about "just turning up" although I do know the times anyway! * The same applies for the Chingford Line - it's every 15 mins and it's not "the end of the world" if you just miss one. *I guess it's all a bit psychological really in terms of people's tolerance of being delayed. When the Tyneside metro switched from 6tph to 5tph I started looking at the timetable before leaving the house and stopped thinking of it as a turn up and go service. I don't think 4tph is really good enough within inner London. |
Overground SLL link
On Jul 20, 8:49*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:02:20 -0700 (PDT), brixtonite wrote: On Jul 20, 1:44 pm, plcd1 wrote: Talking a relevant Overground example - when the GOBLIN was every 20 or 30 minutes I would have to know the departure times as just missing a train would impose too long a wait and it would be worthwhile considering going another way. With the GOBLIN now every 15 minutes I am much more relaxed about "just turning up" although I do know the times anyway! The same applies for the Chingford Line - it's every 15 mins and it's not "the end of the world" if you just miss one. I guess it's all a bit psychological really in terms of people's tolerance of being delayed. When the Tyneside metro switched from 6tph to 5tph I started looking at the timetable before leaving the house and stopped thinking of it as a turn up and go service. *I don't think 4tph is really good enough within inner London. Goodness me - give 'em a chance. The SLL service hasn't even started yet and people are saying it's no good. I expect it to be popular when it does start running but every time I make a suggestion or comment about a train service proposal I get metaphorically "slapped round the chops" and told I'm deluded / misinformed / stupid. Many TOC services in Greater London run half hourly at best on certain routes. Granted others are much more frequent on a core section but then fan out to terminal stations at much lower frequencies. As a local to me example the Hertford East - Stratford service is only hourly (!) off peak and at best half hourly in the peaks. OK it is not crush loaded but it is not exactly unpopular either. *I'd love a x15 minute as, I suspect, would many other people who would suddently flock to use the line once it was a convenient option for them. You see exactly the same thing with bus services in London. Bolster frequencies to "turn up and go" levels and guess what - people turn up to go. -- Paul C Didn't mean to complain exactly - the ELL extension to Clapham Junction will be a huge improvement on what's currently available on the SLL and I am sure it will be very popular. I just think it's a shame it can't run to tube or DLR frequencies, and likewise for other national rail routes in areas not served by the tube. |
Overground SLL link
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Overground SLL link
On 19/07/2011 23:59, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:53:01 +0100, " wrote: On 19/07/2011 21:17, solar penguin wrote: 1506 wrote: On Jul 19, 6:29 pm, wrote: Do you have any idea of the timeline for this one? There's a broad one athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15401.aspx(near bottom of the page) -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com Thank you. In eighteen months we can look forward to circumnavigating the Capital by train. We can _already_ circumnavigate the capital by train. The only difference is, in eighteen months we'll be able to do it sitting sideways the whole way. Whether or not you look forward to that depends on your personal tastes in the matter. What is the route? How many do you want ? Just one. |
Overground SLL link
"Paul Scott" wrote in message ... SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk includes newsletters and photos of the work so far, which may be of interest. The last time there was a passenger service from the ELL to the SLL was in 1911. Are there any other railways which have been reopened after closure for more than 100 years? Peter |
Overground SLL link
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:44:11 +0100, "
wrote: On 19/07/2011 23:59, Charles Ellson wrote: On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:53:01 +0100, " wrote: On 19/07/2011 21:17, solar penguin wrote: 1506 wrote: On Jul 19, 6:29 pm, wrote: Do you have any idea of the timeline for this one? There's a broad one athttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15401.aspx(near bottom of the page) -- Robin PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com Thank you. In eighteen months we can look forward to circumnavigating the Capital by train. We can _already_ circumnavigate the capital by train. The only difference is, in eighteen months we'll be able to do it sitting sideways the whole way. Whether or not you look forward to that depends on your personal tastes in the matter. What is the route? How many do you want ? Just one. The tightest or the slackest ? Staying within Greater London, London Overground probably provides a basic skeleton with inward or outward variation available at different places. The Circle Line doesn't count if you exclude any lines passing through the capital. |
Overground SLL link
On Jul 20, 10:44*pm, wrote:
My first thought would be the Laverstock loop outside Salisbury, ------and quickly flipping through Google I see this was suggested by one of the regulars on here in a similar discussion about *this in the group about 4 years ago. At the time he mentioned suggestions that the loop may have been reconnected for a time in WW2 but had seen no real evidence,anyway he'll be along himself shortly I'm sure. Wonder if the Luftwaffe took any aerial photos of the area? ;o) Its interesting you mention aerial photos. There were dummy sites before d-day where false railheads were set up - e.g. one just to the north of South Charford (between Breamore and Downton) level crossing where my gram was crossing keeper. It has occurred to me maybe Laverstock loop was such a dummy - this would explain why trains were /apparently/ on it yet no record of its connection at the north/east end at the period is known. -- Nick |
Overground SLL link
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:32:41 +0100 [UTC], Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:58:31 on Wed, 20 Jul 2011, Clive Page remarked: SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk Is it reasonable to call it a "frequent" service if there are only 4 trains/hour? Many people would kill for 4tph. My own view (coloured in some part by being a past user of the outer fringes of the Met line) is that something magic happens between 3tph and 4tph - despite it only reducing the interval by 5 minutes. Such that 4tph is a frequent enough service it's turn-up-and-go for most users. I'd go as far as to say between 2tph and 3th - when the Birmingham SH - Dorridge line went up from 2 to 3tph, we noticed that if you rolled into a station heading out of city 15 minutes before a city-bound train was due, people would be wandering onto that platform, so clearly were turning up on spec. We also noticed that people got a lot less forgiving of minor (3, 4, 5 minute) delays... -- Ross Speaking for me, myself and I. Nobody else - unless I make it clear that I am... |
Overground SLL link
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 04:44:44 -0700 (PDT), plcd1
wrote: On Jul 20, 11:58*am, Clive Page wrote: On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:00:52 +0100, "Paul Scott" SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk Is it reasonable to call it a "frequent" service if there are only 4 trains/hour? In broad terms I'd say yes. It is certainly a decent service level to begin a new rail service with. We're not talking about a tube line nor a tram line in an urban area where the UK expectation would be a service every few minutes. As Roland says many people would kill to have such a service level on their train or bus route. Talking a relevant Overground example - when the GOBLIN was every 20 or 30 minutes I would have to know the departure times as just missing a train would impose too long a wait and it would be worthwhile considering going another way. With the GOBLIN now every 15 minutes I am much more relaxed about "just turning up" although I do know the times anyway! The same applies for the Chingford Line - it's every 15 mins and it's not "the end of the world" if you just miss one. I guess it's all a bit psychological really in terms of people's tolerance of being delayed. Chingford is only 4 tph? When it 1st electrified, (Nov. '60, when I were but a young lad....) it was 6 tph off-peak & 9 tph in the peaks. Train were probably longer too, 6-car off-peak & 9-car peak. 'Twas before the Victoria line opened, so perhaps that stole some of the traffic? DC |
Overground SLL link
wrote When it 1st electrified, (Nov. '60, when I were but a young lad....) it was 6 tph off-peak & 9 tph in the peaks. Train were probably longer too, 6-car off-peak & 9-car peak. 'Twas before the Victoria line opened, so perhaps that stole some of the traffic? Indeed it did. When the Victoria Line opened Chingford went down to 6 tph peak, 3 tph off-peak (so the off-peak service is now more frequent than it was in the 1970s. Peter |
Overground SLL link
On 20/07/2011 23:22, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 04:44:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Jul 20, 11:58 am, Clive wrote: On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:00:52 +0100, "Paul Scott" SLL extension new works by Birse Metro. The contractor's site he http://www.overgroundextension.co.uk Is it reasonable to call it a "frequent" service if there are only 4 trains/hour? In broad terms I'd say yes. It is certainly a decent service level to begin a new rail service with. We're not talking about a tube line nor a tram line in an urban area where the UK expectation would be a service every few minutes. As Roland says many people would kill to have such a service level on their train or bus route. Talking a relevant Overground example - when the GOBLIN was every 20 or 30 minutes I would have to know the departure times as just missing a train would impose too long a wait and it would be worthwhile considering going another way. With the GOBLIN now every 15 minutes I am much more relaxed about "just turning up" although I do know the times anyway! The same applies for the Chingford Line - it's every 15 mins and it's not "the end of the world" if you just miss one. I guess it's all a bit psychological really in terms of people's tolerance of being delayed. Chingford is only 4 tph? When it 1st electrified, (Nov. '60, when I were but a young lad....) it was 6 tph off-peak& 9 tph in the peaks. Train were probably longer too, 6-car off-peak& 9-car peak. 'Twas before the Victoria line opened, so perhaps that stole some of the traffic? DC I commuted from Chingford to Liv St to go to school (at Blackfriars) from 65 to 72. My recollection is 9 per hour in the peaks - three groups of three, one group every 20 mins. The first two in each group ran fast between St. James' Street and Liverpool Street, while the third had stops at Clapton, Hackney Downs and Bethnal Green. My memory is of just one every 20 mins off-peak, but I could be wrong. Rush hour trains were 9 car (3x3), but off-peak I think were only 3 cars. That dind't change even with the opening of the Victoria Line at Hoe Street (or Walthamstow Central as it became) - well not before my family moved over to the SW side of London and I stopped doing that journey. Kevin |
Overground SLL link
"brixtonite" wrote Didn't mean to complain exactly - the ELL extension to Clapham Junction will be a huge improvement on what's currently available on the SLL and I am sure it will be very popular. I just think it's a shame it can't run to tube or DLR frequencies, and likewise for other national rail routes in areas not served by the tube. When the Clapham Junction service starts the core section of the ELL (Dalston Junction to Surrey Quays) will go up from 12 to 16 tph. On the new section, ELL LO trains will have to share tracks with Southern trains between Old Kent Road Junction and Peckham Rye, and with Southeastern and freight between Crofton Road Junction and Wandsworth Road. Peter |
Overground SLL link
"D7666" wrote There were dummy sites before d-day where false railheads were set up - e.g. one just to the north of South Charford (between Breamore and Downton) level crossing where my gram was crossing keeper. Lullingstone station was built (but not opened) before WW2. During teh War a dummy airfield was built near to it. After the War Green Belt legislation meant that the housing the station was meant to serve never happened, so the station never opened and was eventually demolished. I think the platform canopies went to Canterbury East. However, Bill Hayles, formerly of this parish, did manage to acquire a Lullingstone platform ticket. Peter |
Overground SLL link
"Peter Masson" wrote in message
... snip Lullingstone station was built (but not opened) before WW2. During teh War a dummy airfield was built near to it. After the War Green Belt legislation meant that the housing the station was meant to serve never happened, so the station never opened and was eventually demolished. I think the platform canopies went to Canterbury East. However, Bill Hayles, formerly of this parish, did manage to acquire a Lullingstone platform ticket. Peter Some of the platform and supports are still visible between Eynsford tunnel and the Darenth viaduct. MaxB |
Overground SLL link
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:55:36 -0700 (PDT), 1506
uttered: Great isn't it. Perhaps, like DLR, the Overground will continue to grow. Is it! More lines with those crap trains and having to sit facing someone and not being able to get a decent view out of the windows. |
Overground SLL link
On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 09:41:02 GMT
(Dave) wrote: More lines with those crap trains and having to sit facing someone and not being able to get a decent view out of the windows. Not as bad as the DLR trains. They still haven't solved the bogie hunting issue even on the new stock it seems. How flippin hard can it be? B2003 |
Overground SLL link
On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 07:56:26PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
I'm not sure that Overground is being marketed as an almost tube line in terms of frequencies. Maybe not in terms of frequencies, but it is marketed as being a tube line. Consider the announcements at stations that these days often end "there is a good service on all other underground lines, including the DLR and London Overground". -- David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders" Human Rights left unattended may be removed, destroyed, or damaged by the security services. |
Overground SLL link
On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 01:13:40PM -0700, brixtonite wrote:
Didn't mean to complain exactly - the ELL extension to Clapham Junction will be a huge improvement on what's currently available on the SLL and I am sure it will be very popular. I just think it's a shame it can't run to tube or DLR frequencies, and likewise for other national rail routes in areas not served by the tube. The trouble is that all those NR routes have lots of junctions, much of the track is shared between several routes, and some of those routes are longer distance ones to places like Brighton. This makes scheduling lots of frequent services Challenging, and means that as soon as one route goes wrong (like, say, something running late and missing its turn at a junction) the problems rapidly cascade to lots of other routes. If you have lots of junctions, you need large gaps between trains so you can recover better from things like that. A reliable service is better than a very frequent but unreliable service. You will note that the Underground lines that have the most junctions are those that run at the lowest frequencies and have the most reliability problems, whereas those with few junctions run a much more frequent and reliable service. This is why when I grumble about the trains being packed between Shepherds Bush and Clapham Junction, I maintain that the solution is not a more frequent service, but longer trains. SOME of the route conflict problems could be solved by reducing the number of destinations served from each station, but many of them can't be because of a lack of good interchanges. Taking just one example and ignoring junctions further up the line, northbound trains from Thornton Heath go to Victoria or London Bridge, diverging at Streatham Common. You can't change that to a single route with a change of trains at Streatham Common because both routes use the same platforms at Streatham Common and there is no station at the right place on the line between Mitcham and Streatham. See he http://tinyurl.com/3ry5l2u Streatham Common station is at the bottom, trains to Victoria head north, trains to London Bridge take the curve from immediately north of the platforms up towards the top right, where they join the line from Mitcham (off screen on the left) and Streatham (off screen top right) stations. The *ideal* in this simplified example would be to move the station north a bit and make it easy to change between Streatham Common High Level and Streatham Common Low Level, getting rid of all the junctions. Unfortunately in the real world there are other junctions in the area and you won't get any benefit unless those are done away with too, and replacing eleventy squillion stations, re-laying track as necessary, buying and demolishing surrounding buildings - all thise would be ridiculously expensive and time-consuming. Much easier to just have longer trains to cope with the capacity problems in the peaks. -- David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club" The word "urgent" is the moral of the story "The boy who cried wolf". As a general rule I don't believe it until a manager comes to me almost in tears. I like to catch them in a cup and drink them later. -- Matt Holiab, in the Monastery |
Overground SLL link
In message , at 12:07:52
on Thu, 21 Jul 2011, David Cantrell remarked: Consider the announcements at stations that these days often end "there is a good service on all other underground lines, including the DLR and London Overground". Given that such announcements might just as likely be: "there is a good service on all your other underground lines, including your DLR and your London Overground" I wouldn't necessarily expect 100% grammatical integrity. -- Roland Perry |
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