Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

All trains were been cancelled in and out of Paddington for the best
part of this afternoon. Trains only started going through H&H about an
hour ago (18,00). We arrived at H&H just now and they were still
scrubbing the surface and surrounds of platform 3. All was roped off
there. The smell was over-powering. No further details. We're getting
about one suicide every three weeks on this line - usually at Southall
and now H&H. Appalling. And nothing seems to be getting done about
this situation.

And of course thousands of passengers for Heathrow missed their
flights, with consequent missed flight connections, hotel reservations
and appointments. HCon and HEX (aka BAA) failed to provide alternative
transportation.

And there did not seem to be any contingency plans at Paddington
despite this being a regular occurrence.

CJB.

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

wrote in message
...

All trains were been cancelled in and out of Paddington for the best
part of this afternoon. Trains only started going through H&H about an
hour ago (18,00). We arrived at H&H just now and they were still
scrubbing the surface and surrounds of platform 3. All was roped off
there. The smell was over-powering. No further details. We're getting
about one suicide every three weeks on this line - usually at Southall
and now H&H. Appalling. And nothing seems to be getting done about
this situation.

And of course thousands of passengers for Heathrow missed their
flights, with consequent missed flight connections, hotel reservations
and appointments. HCon and HEX (aka BAA) failed to provide alternative
transportation.

And there did not seem to be any contingency plans at Paddington
despite this being a regular occurrence.

CJB.

What would you suggest: snowploughs fitted on front of trains? permanent
max. 10mph limit through area? build diversionary route?

Bloody (literally) annoying but not a lot you can do about these selfish
buggers!

MaxB

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

In message , at 20:07:44 on
Tue, 19 Jul 2011, MaxB remarked:

What would you suggest: snowploughs fitted on front of trains?
permanent max. 10mph limit through area? build diversionary route?

As there are more than two tracks through the area, why can't they carry
on running trains on the remaining clear ones?

And as a more general point, indicate how people might take an alternate
route themselves (eg tube to Heathrow, from Waterloo to Reading etc).

Given that people are supposed to check in at Heathrow two or three
hours in advance, and it's only 55 mins by tube from Paddington to
Heathrow [change at Gloucester Rd or Earls Court depending on which
train arrives first], it shouldn't really cause anyone to miss a flight,
if they are given the information quickly enough.
--
Roland Perry

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

Please tell me how on earth any railway operator is able to
*prevent* people committing suicide?

That isn't the point, Paul. It happens, as you say, and regularly. So
there should be properly organised contingency plans in place by now so
the whole route between Paddington and Heathrow is not shut down for hours
at a time. It has been a regular criticism of the railways that their
plans for handling disruption are not good enough.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

On Jul 19, 10:39*pm, wrote:
In article ,

(Paul Corfield) wrote:
Please tell me how on earth any railway operator is able to
*prevent* people committing suicide?

That isn't the point, Paul. It happens, as you say, and regularly. So
there should be properly organised contingency plans in place by now so
the whole route between Paddington and Heathrow is not shut down for hours
at a time. It has been a regular criticism of the railways that their
plans for handling disruption are not good enough.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

More at:

http://www.uxbridgegazette.co.uk/wes...3046-29083644/

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

Please tell me how on earth any railway operator is able to *prevent*
people committing suicide?

I understand Southern have had some success with the measures they have
taken at the more notorious spots in their territory. Maybe they employ
people who are prepared to think about the problem rather than just
accepting it?

--
DAS

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

In message , at 02:31:32 on Wed, 20 Jul
2011, Tim Roll-Pickering remarked:
And there did not seem to be any contingency plans at Paddington
despite this being a regular occurrence.

Is there some especial reason for it happening regularly at Paddington - an
open home in the area for instance?

Paddington is where the effects are felt, and where people think not
enough is done to alert passengers to alternative routes (or indeed
where not enough is done to arrange temporary transport - perhaps a bus
shuttle to Heathrow).

The hot spots for the suicides themselves are in the suburbs.
--
Roland Perry

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:39:44 -0600, Robert Neville
wrote:

wrote:

And nothing seems to be getting done about this situation.

What would you propose? A certificate of mental stability from all passengers
checked at the turnstyle?

That would help ensure everone got a seat!
--
Cheers

Peter

(Reply to address is a spam trap - pse reply to the group)

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

On 20 July, 09:37, Peter wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:39:44 -0600, Robert Neville
wrote:

wrote:

And nothing seems to be getting done about this situation.

What would you propose? A certificate of mental stability from all passengers
checked at the turnstyle? *

That would help ensure everone got a seat!
--
Cheers

Peter

(Reply to address is a spam trap - pse reply to the group)

One area that needs to be addressed is the police and fire brigade
approach to such incidents. It's usually the them that require a
complete shutdown. NR and the railway companies need to get together
with the emergency services to examine more efficient ways of
recovering the train service. It's difficult but it can be done.

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

"Tubeprune" wrote in message
...

On 20 July, 09:37, Peter wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:39:44 -0600, Robert Neville
wrote:

wrote:

And nothing seems to be getting done about this situation.

What would you propose? A certificate of mental stability from all
passengers
checked at the turnstyle?

That would help ensure everone got a seat!
--
Cheers

Peter

(Reply to address is a spam trap - pse reply to the group)

One area that needs to be addressed is the police and fire brigade
approach to such incidents. It's usually the them that require a
complete shutdown. NR and the railway companies need to get together
with the emergency services to examine more efficient ways of
recovering the train service. It's difficult but it can be done.

There was a report a few days ago about a new 3D laser device the police are
to use on road accidents to allow the site to be cleared more quickly and
the details then recreated on a computer for detailed study. It would be
nice to think this could be adopted by Network Rail, and not just for
suicides.

Although there has been some levity about the most recent incident, we have
to remember that the police are dealing with an unexplained death and need
to tread cautiously :).

MaxB

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

"Roland Perry" wrote:

In message , at 02:31:32 on Wed, 20 Jul
2011, Tim Roll-Pickering remarked:

And there did not seem to be any contingency plans at Paddington
despite this being a regular occurrence.

Is there some especial reason for it happening regularly at Paddington -
an
open home in the area for instance?

Paddington is where the effects are felt, and where people think not
enough is done to alert passengers to alternative routes (or indeed where
not enough is done to arrange temporary transport - perhaps a bus shuttle
to Heathrow).

The hot spots for the suicides themselves are in the suburbs.

I'd think that directing people towards the Underground would be the best
alternative route to Heathrow - I'd guess that's what already happens at
Paddington on such occasions?

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

In message , at 10:57:12 on
Wed, 20 Jul 2011, MaxB remarked:
Although there has been some levity about the most recent incident, we
have to remember that the police are dealing with an unexplained death
and need to tread cautiously :)

Better CCTV would allow an explanation to be forthcoming very quickly
for many of the suicides. And they wouldn't even need to get their feet
wet.
--
Roland Perry

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

In message , at 11:34:39 on Wed, 20 Jul
2011, Mizter T remarked:

I'd think that directing people towards the Underground would be the
best alternative route to Heathrow

That or shared taxis.

- I'd guess that's what already happens at Paddington on such
occasions?

I'm not sure it is. Perhaps someone who has been caught up could
comment. Observations about large numbers of people missing planes
would suggest not.
--
Roland Perry

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

On Jul 19, 7:35*pm, wrote:

And there did not seem to be any contingency plans at Paddington
despite this being a regular *occurrence.

Do you remember once when some top johnny decided to keep trains
running at normal speed over the top of a covered-up corpse?
I thought that was an extremely sensible idea but the outcry in the
newspapers (which included a picture of a mound-like blanket) was
massively negative.

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

On 2011\07\20 12:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:57:12 on
Wed, 20 Jul 2011, MaxB remarked:
Although there has been some levity about the most recent incident, we
have to remember that the police are dealing with an unexplained death
and need to tread cautiously :)

Better CCTV would allow an explanation to be forthcoming very quickly
for many of the suicides. And they wouldn't even need to get their feet
wet.

Replacing the sleepers with a smooth tray would allow a form of car wash
to be fitted to the affected stations.

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

"Roland Perry" wrote:

In message , at 11:34:39 on Wed, 20 Jul 2011,
Mizter T remarked:

I'd think that directing people towards the Underground would be the best
alternative route to Heathrow

That or shared taxis.

- I'd guess that's what already happens at Paddington on such occasions?

I'm not sure it is. Perhaps someone who has been caught up could comment.
Observations about large numbers of people missing planes
would suggest not.

Whose observations are those? Whilst the OP, CJB, likes to present his posts
in a 'reportage' style, his comments on the matter of missed flights are
little more that his own conjecture.

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

In message , at 13:25:23 on Wed, 20 Jul
2011, Mizter T remarked:
Observations about large numbers of people missing planes
would suggest not.

Whose observations are those? Whilst the OP, CJB, likes to present his
posts in a 'reportage' style, his comments on the matter of missed
flights are little more that his own conjecture.

On this occasion he seems to have been travelling on the line, says
there weren't any alternatives on offer at Paddington, and maybe saw
lots of fliers sat around waiting.
--
Roland Perry

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 02:57:38AM +0100, D A Stocks wrote:

I understand Southern have had some success with the measures they have
taken at the more notorious spots in their territory.

What have they done, and what are those spots?

--
David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
-- attributed by Plato to Socrates

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

In message , David
Cantrell writes

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 02:57:38AM +0100, D A Stocks wrote:

I understand Southern have had some success with the measures they have
taken at the more notorious spots in their territory.

What have they done, and what are those spots?

I don't know if it is related to actions by Southern, but there was a
controlled experiment by the Forestry Commission in the New Forest, that
involved placing posters advertising the help that can be given by the
Samaritans at car parks that had a record of suicides by car-exhaust
poisoning.

Although seemingly very simple, suicides in the area were reduced from
10 a year to 3.3, while no significant changes were found in comparable
forest districts.

There's also a joint ATOC-Samaritans leaflet on the problem ...
http://www.samaritans.org/about_sama...s/reducing_sui
cide_railways.aspx

.... that, in addition to placing posters at notorious spots, suggests
that the staff training offered by the Samaritans can help rail staff in
feeling more confident to intervene when a situation arises.
--
Paul Terry

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

In article
,
() wrote:

*From:*
*Date:* Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:35:30 -0700 (PDT)

All trains were been cancelled in and out of Paddington for the best
part of this afternoon. Trains only started going through H&H about
an
hour ago (18,00). We arrived at H&H just now and they were still
scrubbing the surface and surrounds of platform 3. All was roped off
there. The smell was over-powering. No further details. We're
getting
about one suicide every three weeks on this line - usually at
Southall
and now H&H. Appalling. And nothing seems to be getting done about
this situation.

And of course thousands of passengers for Heathrow missed their
flights, with consequent missed flight connections, hotel
reservations
and appointments. HCon and HEX (aka BAA) failed to provide
alternative
transportation.

And there did not seem to be any contingency plans at Paddington
despite this being a regular occurrence.

CJB.

There's a news report from 2007 he
http://tinyurl.com/ycy8lx9
apparently, in 2006, one third of all one-unders on NR were in this area.

Roger

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

*From:* Tubeprune
*Date:* Wed, 20 Jul 2011 01:50:29 -0700 (PDT)


One area that needs to be addressed is the police and fire brigade
approach to such incidents. It's usually the them that require a
complete shutdown. NR and the railway companies need to get
together
with the emergency services to examine more efficient ways of
recovering the train service. It's difficult but it can be done.

Apart from any forensic work, I think the amount of time taken depends a
lot on whether the person is still alive or not. Every effort will be made
to get out a person that's alive without any additional damage, even if
this means cutting off a limb when they're trapped. It may be possible to
remove an inaccessible dead person quicker if the train is moved past the
body, as long as the person has obviously been certified dead and suitable
evidence taken for the coroner and any subsequent damage has no impact for
the autopsy - i.e. a leg being chopped off if the train is moved probably
won't make much difference to the overall result as far as the coroner is
concerned. I know this sort of thing has been done in the past.

Each one under is different. On the Underground, in the deep level
stations with the suicide pits, acess to the person or body is generally
easier. However, it can still take time to actually get the person or body
out. Some of the time spent may be waiting for the "heavy gang" to arrive
if, for example, the train needs jacking up. In many cases, the subsequent
police action is very short by comparison, unless foul play is suspected,
in which case the station (and track) may be shut for hours.

Another delay can be the state of the body. A body that is visibly in one
piece is much easier to deal with than one that has been chopped up into
various pieces and may be scattered over a wide area (especially when hit
by a fast train) or stuck to the underside of the train. In these
circumstances, the police will normally want to do a thorough track search
before giving the track back for use. For some reason, perhaps because of
it's shape, the head is sometimes some distance away from the rest of the
body and may take a while to find, depending on how far it's rolled and
the state of the trackside.

Roger

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...
On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 02:57:38AM +0100, D A Stocks wrote:

I understand Southern have had some success with the measures they have
taken at the more notorious spots in their territory.

What have they done, and what are those spots?

The most obvious is that platforms on the fast lines that are not in normal
use are fenced off at most stations. The platforms are still useable (via
gates that are usually locked) and the fencing used is fairly unobtrusive -
it's there to make it just a bit harder for someone to make a spontaneous
leap, rather than to stop them altogether. The following reports an example:

http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/Platform-fences-installed-Croydon-stations-stop-suicide-bids/story-11370684-detail/story.html

--
DAS

Massive Disruption at Paddington - Suicide at Hayes & Harlington
 

Here is an ancient suicide, probably from around 1876. I think the
real location may have been Willesden Jct:

"...Tenway Junction is so big a place, and so scattered, that it is
impossible that all the pundits should by any combined activity
maintain to the letter the order of which our special pundit had
spoken. Lopez, departing from the platform which he had hitherto
occupied, was soon to be seen on another, walking up and down, and
again waiting. But the old pundit had his eye on him, and had followed
him round. At that moment there came a shriek louder than all the
other shrieks, and the morning express down from Euston to Inverness
was seen coming round the curve at a thousand miles an hour. Lopez
turned round and looked at it, and again walked towards the edge of
the platform but now it was not exactly the edge that he neared, but a
descent to a pathway, --an inclined plane leading down to the level of
the rails, and made there for certain purposes of traffic. As he did
so the pundit called to him, and then made a rush at him,--for our
friend's back was turned to the coming train. But Lopez heeded not the
call, and the rush was too late. With quick, but still with gentle and
apparently unhurried steps, he walked down before the flying engine--
and in a moment had been knocked into bloody atoms."

That is from The Pallisers by Anthony Trollope