In message , at 05:11:03
on Sun, 31 Jul 2011, remarked:
I'm assuming that the Thameslink trains will take over the London Bridge
to Horsham stoppers. What about the other end? If they form what is now
the King's Cross to Cambridge stopper then Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton
platforms will need to be extended to eight car length.

The Horsham Cambridge trains are to be 12-car. Only for half the semi-fast
off-peak service calls at stations between Cambridge and Royston. I expect
the hourly Horsham-Cambridge service will take over the semi-fast services
that currently depart KGX at xx.53 (was xx.52 until May) and CBG at xx.26.

That's only 1tph, and the Horsham line needs 2tph. Where's that other
one going to come from.

I presume the xx.06 ex KGX and xx.55 ex CBG will remain 4 cars and
continue to call at all stations to Hatfield.

Terminating at Kings Cross?

What they will do in the peaks and evenings when all trains call between
Cambridge and Royston I don't know.

All trains, including the fasts?

Of course, another possible pattern would be the Cambridge-KX fasts to
go to Horsham, with only the hourly Kings Lynn service being IEP (and
terminating at Kings Cross). Plus the stopper as you suggest above. But
then the stopper would be a strange animal, needing some 4-car legacy
stock.

Would extending the platforms at Shepreth be allowed these days on the curve?

The plans must be available somewhere - I posted what you might describe
as a list of them, earlier.
--
Roland Perry

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...


"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

"Paul Corfield" wrote

Are the plans to which you refer publicly available on the net? The
nearest I could dig out was an old post on the now defunct London
Connections blog from several years ago. The diagram doesn't have the
subtle detail to which you refer.

I haven't come across the plans on the net -- and my information could be
out of date, as it comes from the February 2000 MR.

I was thinking Feb 2007 MR, was that a typo Peter?

The drawings do however show a number of options for routeing trains
across the junction in question, as you mention...

Thanks. I was looking for the later (2007) version but only found the
earlier (2000) version. The later one seems to provide a little more
flexibility at Blackfriars Junction, but retains the ability for a
southbound Elephant train to wait for a path across the junction without
impeding a following down London Bridge train from accessing the spur to
Metropolitan Junction.

Now that the routeing of Thameslink trains is becoming clearer a further
conflict has been removed. Thameslink Elephant & Castle trains will all run
via the Catford Loop, so won't conflict with trains from the Blackfriars
terminal platforms running via Herne Hill.

Peter

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
05:11:03 on Sun, 31 Jul 2011, remarked:
I'm assuming that the Thameslink trains will take over the London
Bridge to Horsham stoppers. What about the other end? If they form
what is now the King's Cross to Cambridge stopper then Meldreth,
Shepreth and Foxton platforms will need to be extended to eight car
length.

The Horsham Cambridge trains are to be 12-car. Only for half the
semi-fast off-peak service calls at stations between Cambridge and
Royston. I expect the hourly Horsham-Cambridge service will take over the
semi-fast services that currently depart KGX at xx.53 (was xx.52 until
May) and CBG at xx.26.

That's only 1tph, and the Horsham line needs 2tph. Where's that other
one going to come from.

The list posted by the OP only had one.

I presume the xx.06 ex KGX and xx.55 ex CBG will remain 4 cars and
continue to call at all stations to Hatfield.

Terminating at Kings Cross?

Yes.

What they will do in the peaks and evenings when all trains call between
Cambridge and Royston I don't know.

All trains, including the fasts?

No, just the semi-fasts. There are two an hour but only one calls at
stations between Royston and Cambridge off-peak. In the peaks and much of
the evening they all call.

Of course, another possible pattern would be the Cambridge-KX fasts
to go to Horsham, with only the hourly Kings Lynn service being IEP
(and terminating at Kings Cross). Plus the stopper as you suggest
above. But then the stopper would be a strange animal, needing some
4-car legacy stock.

Why not?

Would extending the platforms at Shepreth be allowed these days on
the curve?

The plans must be available somewhere - I posted what you might
describe as a list of them, earlier.

Yes, I guess they found a way round any restrictions.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 07:34:56
on Sun, 31 Jul 2011, remarked:

The Horsham Cambridge trains are to be 12-car. Only for half the
semi-fast off-peak service calls at stations between Cambridge and
Royston. I expect the hourly Horsham-Cambridge service will take over the
semi-fast services that currently depart KGX at xx.53 (was xx.52 until
May) and CBG at xx.26.

That's only 1tph, and the Horsham line needs 2tph. Where's that other
one going to come from.

The list posted by the OP only had one.

"each pairing is 2 tph; except Brighton - Bedford which is 4tph"

I presume the xx.06 ex KGX and xx.55 ex CBG will remain 4 cars and
continue to call at all stations to Hatfield.

Terminating at Kings Cross?

Yes.

What they will do in the peaks and evenings when all trains call between
Cambridge and Royston I don't know.

All trains, including the fasts?

No, just the semi-fasts. There are two an hour but only one calls at
stations between Royston and Cambridge off-peak. In the peaks and much of
the evening they all call.

So there will have to be a scheme for stopping the 12-car trains at
these stations. Therefore they can do it all day.

Of course, another possible pattern would be the Cambridge-KX fasts
to go to Horsham, with only the hourly Kings Lynn service being IEP
(and terminating at Kings Cross). Plus the stopper as you suggest
above. But then the stopper would be a strange animal, needing some
4-car legacy stock.

Why not?

Because they try to keep fleets as homogeneous as possible, and having a
few odd sets like that just doesn't fit their thinking.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
07:34:56 on Sun, 31 Jul 2011, remarked:

The Horsham Cambridge trains are to be 12-car. Only for half the
semi-fast off-peak service calls at stations between Cambridge and
Royston. I expect the hourly Horsham-Cambridge service will take over
the semi-fast services that currently depart KGX at xx.53 (was xx.52
until May) and CBG at xx.26.

That's only 1tph, and the Horsham line needs 2tph. Where's that other
one going to come from.

The list posted by the OP only had one.

"each pairing is 2 tph; except Brighton - Bedford which is 4tph"

Ah, missed that bit.

I presume the xx.06 ex KGX and xx.55 ex CBG will remain 4 cars and
continue to call at all stations to Hatfield.

Terminating at Kings Cross?

Yes.

What they will do in the peaks and evenings when all trains call
between Cambridge and Royston I don't know.

All trains, including the fasts?

No, just the semi-fasts. There are two an hour but only one calls at
stations between Royston and Cambridge off-peak. In the peaks and much
of the evening they all call.

So there will have to be a scheme for stopping the 12-car trains at
these stations. Therefore they can do it all day.

Of course, another possible pattern would be the Cambridge-KX fasts
to go to Horsham, with only the hourly Kings Lynn service being IEP
(and terminating at Kings Cross). Plus the stopper as you suggest
above. But then the stopper would be a strange animal, needing some
4-car legacy stock.

Why not?

Because they try to keep fleets as homogeneous as possible, and
having a few odd sets like that just doesn't fit their thinking.

Like the 317s and 321s now, you mean?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"John C" wrote in message
...

I'm assuming that the Thameslink trains will take over the London Bridge
to Horsham
stoppers. What about the other end? If they form what is now the King's
Cross to Cambridge
stopper then Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton platforms will need to be
extended to eight car
length.

The relevant section of the table explains the Cambridge and Peterborough
services will run 'semi-fast' on the northern part of the route.

As I said in the first post there is more info in the original, but a number
of routes are stopping one side of the Thames and semi fast the other, and
vice versa...

Paul S

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...



"John C" wrote in message
...

I'm assuming that the Thameslink trains will take over the London Bridge
to Horsham
stoppers. What about the other end? If they form what is now the King's
Cross to Cambridge
stopper then Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton platforms will need to be
extended to eight car
length.

The relevant section of the table explains the Cambridge and Peterborough
services will run 'semi-fast' on the northern part of the route.

As I said in the first post there is more info in the original, but a
number of routes are stopping one side of the Thames and semi fast the
other, and vice versa...

"semi-fast" is a relative term though. It might just mean that they will not
be stopping at the inner suburban stations.

Peter Smyth

In article ,
(Peter Smyth) wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

"John C" wrote in message
...

I'm assuming that the Thameslink trains will take over the London
Bridge to Horsham stoppers. What about the other end? If they form what
is now the King's Cross to Cambridge stopper then Meldreth, Shepreth
and Foxton platforms will need to be extended to eight car length.

The relevant section of the table explains the Cambridge and Peterborough
services will run 'semi-fast' on the northern part of the route.

As I said in the first post there is more info in the original, but a
number of routes are stopping one side of the Thames and semi fast the
other, and vice versa...

"semi-fast" is a relative term though. It might just mean that they
will not be stopping at the inner suburban stations.

The Cambridge-King's Cross trains I am calling semi-fast are actually all
stations (some miss Ashwell & Morden) from Royston to Stevenage and then
Finsbury Park and King's Cross. The slows also call at stations to Royston
and from Stevenage to Hatfield plus Potters Bar.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 11:05:37
on Sun, 31 Jul 2011, remarked:

Because they try to keep fleets as homogeneous as possible, and
having a few odd sets like that just doesn't fit their thinking.

Like the 317s and 321s now, you mean?

Three sorts of 317, and 325's. It's that sort of mixture they trying to
avoid in future.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 19:33:37 on Sun, 31 Jul
2011, Peter Smyth remarked:
I'm assuming that the Thameslink trains will take over the London
Bridge to Horsham stoppers. What about the other end? If they form
what is now the King's Cross to Cambridge stopper then Meldreth,
Shepreth and Foxton platforms will need to be extended to eight car length.

The relevant section of the table explains the Cambridge and
Peterborough services will run 'semi-fast' on the northern part of
the route.

As I said in the first post there is more info in the original, but a
number of routes are stopping one side of the Thames and semi fast the
other, and vice versa...

"semi-fast" is a relative term though. It might just mean that they
will not be stopping at the inner suburban stations.

And if that's not what it means, will (as Colin suggests) the "stoppers
at everywhere north of Welwyn Garden City" run into KX not Thameslink?
--
Roland Perry