South Eastern avoids this by not announcing them at all. The train
will disappear from the monitor and run unannounced through a
different platform.

I've also known last minute changes happening repeatedly at Finsbury
Park.

I think the winner was at Stratford where the displays showed a train
due in a platform where the line was blocked by one of those red light
things.

I was astounded once to watch a train at Luton Airport Parkway announced as
approaching and then standing at Platform 1 with complete synchronicity.
The only problem? The train was actually approaching and then standing at
platform 3.

Off it went on it's merry way with the CIS still under the impression it
had been at platform 1.

On Aug 24, 5:54*pm, CJB wrote:
You couldn't make this up. The new c.i.s. has been up and misinforming
passengers for over two weeks - and nothing is being done to correct
the system.

This is a classic case worthy of Private Eye - who have been sent
copies of the photos. It is of two adjacent and supposedly identical
c.i.s. displays in the foyer by the ticket office. Spot the deliberate
mistakes.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisjb...7627384806727/

When asked why the ticket office staff don't switch the b&w display
off they claimed that they are unable to, like there isn't an on-off
switch on the monitor? Pathetic.

But the new system is one that displays the next three trains on each
platform. So they are having a field day in the evenings when trains
start to use the fast lines AND the local lines for stopping services.
Trains are now being announced in advance as arriving and departing at
fast platforms 2 (to Paddington) and 1 (to Reading / Oxford). However
AT THE LAST MINUTE platforms are being switched resulting in a mad
dash over various bridges to the other platforms. This is kind of OK
from 3 to 4 but the pedestrian route from 1 to 2 involves going
outside the station, over the road bridge and back inside - passengers
with luggage haven't a chance of making it.

This situation has been going on for years. FGW say they know nothing
about it, but that its Network Rail's fault.

Just recently we had this typical - i.e. every night - situation:

On platform 1 these trains were displayed:

* 23.45 Oxford - five passengers were waiting on platform 1. At the
*last* minute this train was suddenly switched to platform 3. I was
there and held the train doors open for customers to run from platform
1 to 3 over the road bridge - not easy for them. One Japanese tourist
with luggage didn't make it. He missed his train - the LAST train to
Oxford. The driver couldn't give a damn and was going to depart on
time regardless.

* 00.10 Reading - there were 7 passengers waiting on platform 1. At my
advice the Japanese tourist with luggage waited at the top of the
stairs in Station Road. The train arrived at platform 1. He ran down
the stairs with his luggage and caught it. I said to him that if the
train arrived on platform 3 I would hold the doors open for him. If I
see this appalling situation again - I WILL *ALWAYS* HOLD THE DOORS
OPEN - THAT IS A PROMISE.

* 00.51 Reading - this train apparently arrived at platform 1 as
announced

====

On platform 2 (& 3) these trains were displayed:

* 23.43 - Paddington (FGW) - about 4 passengers were waiting on
platform 2 /3. Again at the *last* minute this train was suddenly
switched to platform 4. They had to run over the footbridge to catch
this.

* 23.57 - Paddington (FGW) - arrived at platform 2

* 00.13 - Paddington (HC) - this train suddenly was displayed on the
new c.i.s. system on platform 2 but only a few minutes before it was
due. It normally calls at platform 4. Again passengers had to run over
the footbridge from 4 to 2 to catch it.

====

And next week when they close the station foyer at H&H the chaos is
going to get far worse because the only way of getting from the new
entrance on platform 4 is to go outside, along Station Parade, past
Tescos, past innumerable taxi cab offices, up Station Road, then down
the stairs onto platform 1. This will be impossible to achieve if they
suddenly switch platforms - which they will do. It take 10 minutes to
negotiate that street route as a normal pedestrian; with luggage or if
infirm, passengers can forget it - even if I hold the doors open for
them.

CJB.

These systems are programmed with the Network Rail working timetable
that shows which platform the train is scheduled to use. If that
timetable is wrong then the system is going to give out incorrect
information.

The system has to assume that the train is going to use the timetabled
platform until it passes a junction and occupies a track circuit berth
from which it cannot run into the timetabled platform. In many cases
that is just off the platform end in which case the system will
trigger a last minute change of platform announcement.

The only way around this is for Network Rail to feed the CIS with
either the train's planned route when this is set up or the junction
setting but for some reason NR will not do this. They seem to think
that it will compromise the integrity of the signalling system.

On Aug 25, 1:25*pm, W14_Fishbourne
wrote:
On Aug 24, 5:54*pm, CJB wrote:





You couldn't make this up. The new c.i.s. has been up and misinforming
passengers for over two weeks - and nothing is being done to correct
the system.

This is a classic case worthy of Private Eye - who have been sent
copies of the photos. It is of two adjacent and supposedly identical
c.i.s. displays in the foyer by the ticket office. Spot the deliberate
mistakes.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisjb...7627384806727/

When asked why the ticket office staff don't switch the b&w display
off they claimed that they are unable to, like there isn't an on-off
switch on the monitor? Pathetic.

But the new system is one that displays the next three trains on each
platform. So they are having a field day in the evenings when trains
start to use the fast lines AND the local lines for stopping services.
Trains are now being announced in advance as arriving and departing at
fast platforms 2 (to Paddington) and 1 (to Reading / Oxford). However
AT THE LAST MINUTE platforms are being switched resulting in a mad
dash over various bridges to the other platforms. This is kind of OK
from 3 to 4 but the pedestrian route from 1 to 2 involves going
outside the station, over the road bridge and back inside - passengers
with luggage haven't a chance of making it.

This situation has been going on for years. FGW say they know nothing
about it, but that its Network Rail's fault.

Just recently we had this typical - i.e. every night - situation:

On platform 1 these trains were displayed:

* 23.45 Oxford - five passengers were waiting on platform 1. At the
*last* minute this train was suddenly switched to platform 3. I was
there and held the train doors open for customers to run from platform
1 to 3 over the road bridge - not easy for them. One Japanese tourist
with luggage didn't make it. He missed his train - the LAST train to
Oxford. The driver couldn't give a damn and was going to depart on
time regardless.

* 00.10 Reading - there were 7 passengers waiting on platform 1. At my
advice the Japanese tourist with luggage waited at the top of the
stairs in Station Road. The train arrived at platform 1. He ran down
the stairs with his luggage and caught it. I said to him that if the
train arrived on platform 3 I would hold the doors open for him. If I
see this appalling situation again - I WILL *ALWAYS* HOLD THE DOORS
OPEN - THAT IS A PROMISE.

* 00.51 Reading - this train apparently arrived at platform 1 as
announced

====

On platform 2 (& 3) these trains were displayed:

* 23.43 - Paddington (FGW) - about 4 passengers were waiting on
platform 2 /3. Again at the *last* minute this train was suddenly
switched to platform 4. They had to run over the footbridge to catch
this.

* 23.57 - Paddington (FGW) - arrived at platform 2

* 00.13 - Paddington (HC) - this train suddenly was displayed on the
new c.i.s. system on platform 2 but only a few minutes before it was
due. It normally calls at platform 4. Again passengers had to run over
the footbridge from 4 to 2 to catch it.

====

And next week when they close the station foyer at H&H the chaos is
going to get far worse because the only way of getting from the new
entrance on platform 4 is to go outside, along Station Parade, past
Tescos, past innumerable taxi cab offices, up Station Road, then down
the stairs onto platform 1. This will be impossible to achieve if they
suddenly switch platforms - which they will do. It take 10 minutes to
negotiate that street route as a normal pedestrian; with luggage or if
infirm, passengers can forget it - even if I hold the doors open for
them.

CJB.

These systems are programmed with the Network Rail working timetable
that shows which platform the train is scheduled to use. If that
timetable is wrong then the system is going to give out incorrect
information.

The system has to assume that the train is going to use the timetabled
platform until it passes a junction and occupies a track circuit berth
from which it cannot run into the timetabled platform. In many cases
that is just off the platform end in which case the system will
trigger a last minute change of platform announcement.

The only way around this is for Network Rail to feed the CIS with
either the train's planned route when this is set up or the junction
setting but for some reason NR will not do this. They seem to think
that it will compromise the integrity of the signalling system.-

A train that has been diverted via Sidcup on leaving Dartford is, from
that moment, incapable of running into platform 3 at Lewisham. But
having been on the Sidcup line for half an hour before its scheduled
arrival time doesn't stop it being displayed as expected at platform 3
at Lewisham until it just disappears and an unscheduled train shows up
at platform 1.

But, as I said before, they'll avoid the safety implications of having
people rushing through the subways by not announcing the platform
change at all.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:54:41 -0700, CJB wrote:

You couldn't make this up. The new c.i.s. has been up and misinforming
passengers for over two weeks - and nothing is being done to correct the
system.

Could the problem here be being caused by users who don't understand the
difference between "Arrivals" and "Departures".

11:23 arrival from London Paddington on P3, departs at 11:23 for Heathrow
Airport

11:25 arrival from Reading on P4, departs at 11:26 for London Paddington

11:31 arrival from London Paddington on P3, departs at 11:32 for Reading

etc etc etc

Looks to me as if the two displays are pretty much in total agreement
about what trains are arriving from where, on which platform, and then
departing to where.

Rgds

Denis McMahon

On 25/08/2011 12:59, Lew 1 wrote:
I was astounded once to watch a train at Luton Airport Parkway announced as
approaching and then standing at Platform 1 with complete synchronicity.
The only problem? The train was actually approaching and then standing at
platform 3.

I've seen this happen quite often there, and sometimes held doors open
for those with luggage who are still struggling down the steps (being
near an airport, this is often the case at this station). I have, of
course, complained to FCC who always say that it's an isolated incident.
However many isolated incidents there are, they don't see any need to
get it fixed (and for all I know, it may be Network Rail's fault, but
they seem to be completely insulated from complaints). Some drivers
are equally obnoxious, sometimes shouting at those who helpfully hold
the doors open.

All you can do, as far as I know, is complain to the train company, and
when you don't get a sensible answer (as you won't) take it up with
London Travelwatch (or the appropriate consumer body). They won't do
anything useful either, but if enough people did the same, eventually
someone might get the message. It must cost the train companies a
small amount to answer every complaint, and I'm sure they monitor that,
so they have a very tiny incentive to fix things that are easy to fix.
This ought to be easy for them to fix, they just have to pass the buck
to Network Rail, after all.


--
Clive Page

On 25/08/2011 13:25, W14_Fishbourne wrote:
On Aug 24, 5:54 pm, wrote:
You couldn't make this up. The new c.i.s. has been up and misinforming
passengers for over two weeks - and nothing is being done to correct
the system.

This is a classic case worthy of Private Eye - who have been sent
copies of the photos. It is of two adjacent and supposedly identical
c.i.s. displays in the foyer by the ticket office. Spot the deliberate
mistakes.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisjb...7627384806727/

When asked why the ticket office staff don't switch the b&w display
off they claimed that they are unable to, like there isn't an on-off
switch on the monitor? Pathetic.

But the new system is one that displays the next three trains on each
platform. So they are having a field day in the evenings when trains
start to use the fast lines AND the local lines for stopping services.
Trains are now being announced in advance as arriving and departing at
fast platforms 2 (to Paddington) and 1 (to Reading / Oxford). However
AT THE LAST MINUTE platforms are being switched resulting in a mad
dash over various bridges to the other platforms. This is kind of OK
from 3 to 4 but the pedestrian route from 1 to 2 involves going
outside the station, over the road bridge and back inside - passengers
with luggage haven't a chance of making it.

This situation has been going on for years. FGW say they know nothing
about it, but that its Network Rail's fault.

Just recently we had this typical - i.e. every night - situation:

On platform 1 these trains were displayed:

* 23.45 Oxford - five passengers were waiting on platform 1. At the
*last* minute this train was suddenly switched to platform 3. I was
there and held the train doors open for customers to run from platform
1 to 3 over the road bridge - not easy for them. One Japanese tourist
with luggage didn't make it. He missed his train - the LAST train to
Oxford. The driver couldn't give a damn and was going to depart on
time regardless.

* 00.10 Reading - there were 7 passengers waiting on platform 1. At my
advice the Japanese tourist with luggage waited at the top of the
stairs in Station Road. The train arrived at platform 1. He ran down
the stairs with his luggage and caught it. I said to him that if the
train arrived on platform 3 I would hold the doors open for him. If I
see this appalling situation again - I WILL *ALWAYS* HOLD THE DOORS
OPEN - THAT IS A PROMISE.

* 00.51 Reading - this train apparently arrived at platform 1 as
announced

====

On platform 2 (& 3) these trains were displayed:

* 23.43 - Paddington (FGW) - about 4 passengers were waiting on
platform 2 /3. Again at the *last* minute this train was suddenly
switched to platform 4. They had to run over the footbridge to catch
this.

* 23.57 - Paddington (FGW) - arrived at platform 2

* 00.13 - Paddington (HC) - this train suddenly was displayed on the
new c.i.s. system on platform 2 but only a few minutes before it was
due. It normally calls at platform 4. Again passengers had to run over
the footbridge from 4 to 2 to catch it.

====

And next week when they close the station foyer at H&H the chaos is
going to get far worse because the only way of getting from the new
entrance on platform 4 is to go outside, along Station Parade, past
Tescos, past innumerable taxi cab offices, up Station Road, then down
the stairs onto platform 1. This will be impossible to achieve if they
suddenly switch platforms - which they will do. It take 10 minutes to
negotiate that street route as a normal pedestrian; with luggage or if
infirm, passengers can forget it - even if I hold the doors open for
them.

CJB.
These systems are programmed with the Network Rail working timetable
that shows which platform the train is scheduled to use. If that
timetable is wrong then the system is going to give out incorrect
information.

The system has to assume that the train is going to use the timetabled
platform until it passes a junction and occupies a track circuit berth
from which it cannot run into the timetabled platform. In many cases
that is just off the platform end in which case the system will
trigger a last minute change of platform announcement.

The only way around this is for Network Rail to feed the CIS with
either the train's planned route when this is set up or the junction
setting but for some reason NR will not do this. They seem to think
that it will compromise the integrity of the signalling system.

I think you've got it in one. Looking at the times of the trains
concerned, which are towards the ends of the day's service, I would
suggest the most likely cause is this.

There is a four-track railway at this location - but at this time of
night only two are required to run the service. So the engineers get
given two tracks for their overnight work and all the service runs on
the other two - fairly easy on the GW main line as the tracks are paired
by use ("Main" one side and "Relief" the other) not by direction ("Up"
one side and "Down" the other).

But these variations are not in the standard working timetable, they are
entered as "short term plan" workings - and it would seem that they are
not being entered in such a way that the CIS can pick it up. So what
happens is that when the approaching train finally enters the section
for the (wrong) platform, the CIS detects this and then does the
platform alteration.

There is probably nothing wrong with the CIS. As is all too often the
case, anyone who complains will get told about "computer errors" when
the truth of the matter is that the poor computer has been stitched up
by the humans who are too lazy or too incompetent to give it the
information it needs.

Does anyone here use Clapham Junction on a Sunday morning? The Sunday
morning timetable there is also set up for a "two line railway" so
engineering work has a minimal effect on services. Most of the morning
SWT service is given "dummy" platforms on the Slow lines - I know
because they go on the Departure posters there straight off the Train
Service Data Base. I never hear of any issues here, but this may be
because the platform number at Clapham Junction is now a required input
to TSDB so the departure displays should have the correct platform
numbers in if the engineering work alterations have been correctly input
to TSDB.

At many locations, however (and it was the case at Clapham Junction
until a few years ago) platform numbers are not shown in the working
timetables unless required for the signaller's information. Where
trains on a particular line must pass through a particular platform, the
train's route only appears at junction locations where the signaller
must switch it from one line to another. The latest CIS are supposed to
have the track geography in so they can use this information to
calculate the correct platform. But, at the end of the day, the CIS can
only tell you what someone else has told it.

--
- Yokel -

Yokel posts via a spam-trap account which is not read.