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WCML classic service after HS2
On Sep 17, 2:44*am, Ken Wheatley wrote:
On 2011-09-16 22:23:00 +0000, Railwayman said: There wont be any need for trains once cheap electric vehicles become more widely used. Especially if we have nuclear-brewed electricity that's 'too cheap to meter'. Cars have been the future of transportation for quite some time, and probably will be for a while! What is the range of a battery only car? |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sep 17, 4:44*am, Andy Breen wrote:
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:32:22 +0100, Robert Cox wrote: On 2011-09-17 12:11:41 +0100, 77002 said: On Sep 17, 2:44*am, Ken Wheatley wrote: On 2011-09-16 22:23:00 +0000, Railwayman said: There wont be any need for trains once cheap electric vehicles become more widely used. Especially if we have nuclear-brewed electricity that's 'too cheap to meter'. Cars have been the future of transportation for quite some time, and probably will be for a while! *What is the range of a battery only car? How long is a piece of string...? About 100 miles for the first tranche of large-production mainstream designs, seems to be the consensus. At the top end 200-odd miles seems to be do-able - if you've got the money to pay for the vehicle. Charge times are still the major issue, though. It's unlikely that the battery-only car could be viable other than as an urban or local hopabout without investment in a supporting infrastructure of battery-change stations (which, after all, is slightly less daft than a supporting infrastructure of places storing and dispensing highly flammable fluid.. ;-) Then there's the potential bottleneck of raw material for battery production. It's not for nothing that many of those minerals are referred to as "rare earths". Thank you. |
WCML classic service after HS2
Cars have been the future of transportation for quite some time, and probably will be for a while! Hmm.. transport came in this order first the roads then the canals then the railways then air. Railways are a new technology and it's only the f**ked up transport economics we have in this country, denying a fair playing field for railways, that has stopped them reigning supreme the way they do elsewhere. Railways are indeed a nineteenth century technology but proper roads were invented by the Romans, which makes roads an outdated BC technology. The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Mind you, if we turned our cities over to cycles, affording them similar priority, that would probably be the finish for cars. I personally would far prefer to do my numerous short car journeys on a bike and it's only the lack of a death wish that has stopped me from doing so. |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sep 17, 6:04*am, allantracy wrote:
Cars have been the future of transportation for quite some time, and probably will be for a while! Hmm.. transport came in this order first the roads then the canals then the railways then air. Railways are a new technology and it's only the f**ked up transport economics we have in this country, denying a fair playing field for railways, that has stopped them reigning supreme the way they do elsewhere. Railways are indeed a nineteenth century technology but proper roads were invented by the Romans, which makes roads an outdated BC technology. The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Mind you, if we turned our cities over to cycles, affording them similar priority, that would probably be the finish for cars. I personally would far prefer to do my numerous short car journeys on a bike and it's only the lack of a death wish that has stopped me from doing so. Should have typed "Electic Cars have been the future of transportation for quite some time". At one point there were electic charging points in some parking lots in California. They have all gone now. |
WCML classic service after HS2
"allantracy" wrote The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Battery technology can never be made efficient, so even with nuclear or other renewable generation of electricity, battery cars can never be made efficient. One possibility is a means of transmitting electricity direct to vehicles. The railways have solved this with OHLE or 3rd rail supply. It has been done with road vehicles (trolleybuses). The other possibility is an efficient means of storing energy in road vehicles without reliance on carbon emissions. In principle this can be done by using electricity from renewables to electrolyse water, using the hydrogen as the energy store, and regenerating the electricity on board in a fuel cell. Peter |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:21:58 +0100, Peter Masson wrote:
"allantracy" wrote The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Battery technology can never be made efficient, Define the meaning you are picking for "efficient" in this context.. so even with nuclear or other renewable generation of electricity, battery cars can never be made efficient. See above. What do you mean by this? Cost? Energy density? Charge cycling efficiency? Lifespan? Charging time? The other possibility is an efficient means of storing energy in road vehicles without reliance on carbon emissions. In principle this can be done by using electricity from renewables to electrolyse water, using the hydrogen as the energy store, and regenerating the electricity on board in a fuel cell. In other words, an energy storage medium with output converted to electricity.. Last I heard (about a year ago, and from someone involved heavily in hydrogen cell development), H2 cells and batteries were technologies advancing at comparable rates, and although he was backing H2 cells, it was too early to call which would win out. -- Speaking for myself, and no-one but myself |
WCML classic service after HS2
"Andy Breen" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:21:58 +0100, Peter Masson wrote: "allantracy" wrote The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Battery technology can never be made efficient, Define the meaning you are picking for "efficient" in this context.. so even with nuclear or other renewable generation of electricity, battery cars can never be made efficient. See above. What do you mean by this? Cost? Energy density? Charge cycling efficiency? Lifespan? Charging time? charge cycle efficiency. The other issues can in principle be overcome, but the laws of physics will not let you charge and discharge a battery without significant energy losses. Peter |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sep 17, 7:39*am, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Andy Breen" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:21:58 +0100, Peter Masson wrote: "allantracy" wrote The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Battery technology can never be made efficient, Define the meaning you are picking for "efficient" in this context.. so even with nuclear or other renewable generation of electricity, battery cars can never be made efficient. See above. What do you mean by this? Cost? Energy density? Charge cycling efficiency? Lifespan? Charging time? charge cycle efficiency. The other issues can in principle be overcome, but the laws of physics will not let you charge and discharge a battery without significant energy losses. Are there not also weight, and size issues with batteries. Gasoline/ petrolium is fairly light and very efficient. A trunk full of batteries is heavy, even if we are talking about the recent battery developments. There is clearly something to be said for Electric/trolley buses. They are still very much in use in Boston, MA and San Francisco, CA. |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:39:20 +0100, Peter Masson wrote:
"Andy Breen" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:21:58 +0100, Peter Masson wrote: "allantracy" wrote The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Battery technology can never be made efficient, Define the meaning you are picking for "efficient" in this context.. so even with nuclear or other renewable generation of electricity, battery cars can never be made efficient. See above. What do you mean by this? Cost? Energy density? Charge cycling efficiency? Lifespan? Charging time? charge cycle efficiency. The other issues can in principle be overcome, but the laws of physics will not let you charge and discharge a battery without significant energy losses. More chemistry than physics in a battery, surely. The physical limitations apply equally to any stored-energy medium (and thus as much to H2 tankage as power stations as batteries..) - you always get less out than you put in. OK, I'll grant you that heat dissipation can be an issue in charging batteries, but the degree to which it's an issue depends on the type of battery (thinking back, here, to discussions of heat issues in spacecraft that couldn't depend on constant solar charging..). The real question is - is charge cycle efficiency enough of a restrictive factor. It's not like the alternatives don't have serious issues of their own. Inductive charging or power supply is lossy, H2 is /really/ good at leaking out of storage (and producing the stuff and compressing or liquifying it are all monsterously lossy processes). Given that we (as a planet) are not short of renewable electricity production potential, but that most of it is inconveniently placed for current - and even more so for likely - population concentrations, any "good enough" means of energy storage is likely to be, well, "good enough". -- Speaking for myself, and no-one but myself |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sep 17, 8:22*am, Andy Breen wrote:
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:44:04 -0700, 77002 wrote: On Sep 17, 7:39*am, "Peter Masson" wrote: "Andy Breen" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:21:58 +0100, Peter Masson wrote: "allantracy" wrote The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Battery technology can never be made efficient, Define the meaning you are picking for "efficient" in this context.. so even with nuclear or other renewable generation of electricity, battery cars can never be made efficient. See above. What do you mean by this? Cost? Energy density? Charge cycling efficiency? Lifespan? Charging time? charge cycle efficiency. The other issues can in principle be overcome, but the laws of physics will not let you charge and discharge a battery without significant energy losses. Are there not also weight, and size issues with batteries. *Gasoline/ petrolium is fairly light and very efficient. *A trunk full of batteries is heavy, even if we are talking about the recent battery developments. But the break point between the two is a moving thing, not least because IC engines have been getting more complex as additional pollution control gear has been added. Example, from the bottom end of the power range I'll admit. Small electric outboard motors for boats are now getting very competitive with small petrol outboards. They cost more, but they are much lighter and easier to handle and much cheaper to run. In fact, a local builder offers them as their preferred option on boats up to 23'... http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/home.html Five years ago none of that would have been true - electric outboards back then were very much what they'd been for the previous 90-odd years. These things really are a different world (and yes, I've seen one in use, and they do seem to have run-times comparable with a small petrol engine with integral tank. When I need to replace the 6bhp o/b I have then I'll be seriously considering one). That's a low-power example, but it's not going to stop there. Often wondered if there is an application for a streetcar/tram or electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. An electro diesel tram train might be another possibility. |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:31:22 -0700, 77002 wrote:
Often wondered if there is an application for a streetcar/tram or electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. I think that's been done.. Actually, weren't the BR(S) Motor Luggage Vans an application of this principle? 3rd rail for most jobs, batteries for light work off the juice? -- Speaking for myself, and no-one but myself |
WCML classic service after HS2
In message
, 77002 writes Often wondered if there is an application for a streetcar/tram or electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. Trollybus route 90 in Rome has been operating on such a system for the last 6 years (more recently joined by route 90D). Batteries are recharged while running on the wired sections, and the changeover is fairly well automated: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTJYsIdZlTg -- Paul Terry |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:44:04 -0700 (PDT), 77002
wrote: On Sep 17, 7:39*am, "Peter Masson" wrote: "Andy Breen" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:21:58 +0100, Peter Masson wrote: "allantracy" wrote The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Battery technology can never be made efficient, Define the meaning you are picking for "efficient" in this context.. so even with nuclear or other renewable generation of electricity, battery cars can never be made efficient. See above. What do you mean by this? Cost? Energy density? Charge cycling efficiency? Lifespan? Charging time? charge cycle efficiency. The other issues can in principle be overcome, but the laws of physics will not let you charge and discharge a battery without significant energy losses. Are there not also weight, and size issues with batteries. Gasoline/ petrolium is fairly light and very efficient. A trunk full of batteries is heavy, even if we are talking about the recent battery developments. There is clearly something to be said for Electric/trolley buses. They are still very much in use in Boston, MA and San Francisco, CA. And Seattle, WA and Metro Vancouver, BC. |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 04:11:41 -0700 (PDT), 77002
wrote: On Sep 17, 2:44*am, Ken Wheatley wrote: On 2011-09-16 22:23:00 +0000, Railwayman said: There wont be any need for trains once cheap electric vehicles become more widely used. Especially if we have nuclear-brewed electricity that's 'too cheap to meter'. Cars have been the future of transportation for quite some time, Don't they sink rather soon after departing for Botany Bay ? |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:31:22 -0700 (PDT), 77002
wrote: On Sep 17, 8:22*am, Andy Breen wrote: On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:44:04 -0700, 77002 wrote: On Sep 17, 7:39*am, "Peter Masson" wrote: "Andy Breen" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:21:58 +0100, Peter Masson wrote: "allantracy" wrote The future for cars looks very bleak unless they can be persuaded to run on electricity. Though there was a steam car around a while ago how ironic would that be? Battery technology can never be made efficient, Define the meaning you are picking for "efficient" in this context.. so even with nuclear or other renewable generation of electricity, battery cars can never be made efficient. See above. What do you mean by this? Cost? Energy density? Charge cycling efficiency? Lifespan? Charging time? charge cycle efficiency. The other issues can in principle be overcome, but the laws of physics will not let you charge and discharge a battery without significant energy losses. Are there not also weight, and size issues with batteries. *Gasoline/ petrolium is fairly light and very efficient. *A trunk full of batteries is heavy, even if we are talking about the recent battery developments. But the break point between the two is a moving thing, not least because IC engines have been getting more complex as additional pollution control gear has been added. Example, from the bottom end of the power range I'll admit. Small electric outboard motors for boats are now getting very competitive with small petrol outboards. They cost more, but they are much lighter and easier to handle and much cheaper to run. In fact, a local builder offers them as their preferred option on boats up to 23'... http://www.torqeedo.com/en/hn/home.html Five years ago none of that would have been true - electric outboards back then were very much what they'd been for the previous 90-odd years. These things really are a different world (and yes, I've seen one in use, and they do seem to have run-times comparable with a small petrol engine with integral tank. When I need to replace the 6bhp o/b I have then I'll be seriously considering one). That's a low-power example, but it's not going to stop there. Often wondered if there is an application for a streetcar/tram or electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. Somewhere in France IIRC where they did not want overhead wires strung up across a historic square, distinct from systems with no OHLE at all. Not forgetting shunting batteries as found with some trolleybuses (or at least one system which also has part-time diesel generators on the trolleybuses). An electro diesel tram train might be another possibility. |
WCML classic service after HS2
On 18/09/2011 00:41, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:31:22 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Sep 17, 8:22 am, Andy wrote: Often wondered if there is an application for a streetcar/tram or electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. Somewhere in France IIRC where they did not want overhead wires strung up across a historic square, distinct from systems with no OHLE at all. Nice I believe (well they certainly have that system there - just not sure of the exact reason) |
WCML classic service after HS2
Then there's the potential bottleneck of raw material for battery
production. It's not for nothing that many of those minerals are referred to as "rare earths". Actually, rare earths are about as common as tin, tungsten, lead, or nickel. They're all far more common than silver. They're only "rare" to 19th century chemical techniques. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
WCML classic service after HS2
Someone Somewhere wrote on 18 September 2011 09:16:16 ...
On 18/09/2011 00:41, Charles Ellson wrote: On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:31:22 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Sep 17, 8:22 am, Andy wrote: Often wondered if there is an application for a streetcar/tram or electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. Somewhere in France IIRC where they did not want overhead wires strung up across a historic square, distinct from systems with no OHLE at all. Nice I believe (well they certainly have that system there - just not sure of the exact reason) Yes, in 2007 Alstom supplied Citadis trams to Nice which can run on batteries in streets where overhead wires would spoil the view of historic buildings or interfere with carnival processions. Alstom have an alternative technology for 'heritage' streets which they use in Bordeaux and elsewhere. This is APS ('alimentation par le sol' or 'ground-supply') which is effectively a third rail set into the road surface. It is made up of short sections, each of which is only energised when the tram is over it. This allows longer sections of route without overhead wires, but is more expensive than the battery option, which can cope with sections up to 1 km long. More details at http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/nice-trams/ -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
WCML classic service after HS2
In message , at 16:23:49 on
Sat, 17 Sep 2011, Nobody remarked: There is clearly something to be said for Electric/trolley buses. They are still very much in use in Boston, MA and San Francisco, CA. And Seattle, WA and Metro Vancouver, BC. And much of Eastern Europe. -- Roland Perry |
WCML classic service after HS2
On 19/09/2011 07:42, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:23:49 on Sat, 17 Sep 2011, Nobody remarked: There is clearly something to be said for Electric/trolley buses. They are still very much in use in Boston, MA and San Francisco, CA. And Seattle, WA and Metro Vancouver, BC. And much of Eastern Europe. And Mendoza in Argentina. May be unique in Southern South America. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
WCML classic service after HS2
"77002" wrote in message ... Often wondered if there is an application for a streetcar/tram or electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. Route number 3 in Gent is a trolley bus. I've seen them run short stretches away from the wires when going to or from the depot so they must have batteries. John |
WCML classic service after HS2
On 19/09/2011 08:43, John C wrote:
"77002" wrote in message ... Often wondered if there is an application for a streetcar/tram or electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. Route number 3 in Gent is a trolley bus. I've seen them run short stretches away from the wires when going to or from the depot so they must have batteries. John The Silver Line services in Boston are operated by dual mode vehicles - they run as trolley buses through the in-town tunnels, but then use a diesel engine to drive a generator that powers the motors when above ground. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_%28MBTA%29 HTH Kevin |
WCML classic service after HS2
On 17/09/2011 16:14, Andy Breen wrote:
The real question is - is charge cycle efficiency enough of a restrictive factor. It's not like the alternatives don't have serious issues of their own. Inductive charging or power supply is lossy, H2 is /really/ good at leaking out of storage (and producing the stuff and compressing or liquifying it are all monsterously lossy processes). I went on a tour of Diamond a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking about recent work to zap their small particles at some molecular structures which Nottingham university is developing to store hydrogen. My brain was at risk of starting to hurt, but it sounded convincing at the time. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:07:13 +0100, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 17/09/2011 16:14, Andy Breen wrote: The real question is - is charge cycle efficiency enough of a restrictive factor. It's not like the alternatives don't have serious issues of their own. Inductive charging or power supply is lossy, H2 is /really/ good at leaking out of storage (and producing the stuff and compressing or liquifying it are all monsterously lossy processes). I went on a tour of Diamond a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking about recent work to zap their small particles at some molecular structures which Nottingham university is developing to store hydrogen. My brain was at risk of starting to hurt, but it sounded convincing at the time. Interesting.. I've got some colleagues who use Diamond. I must remember to ask them if they've heard anything about this. Ta for that. -- Speaking for myself, and no-one but myself |
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Richard J.:
Alstom have an alternative technology for 'heritage' streets which they use in Bordeaux and elsewhere. This is APS ('alimentation par le sol' or 'ground-supply') which is effectively a third rail set into the road surface. It is made up of short sections, each of which is only energised when the tram is over it. This is the "stud" system that was tried in London and a number of other places about 100 years ago. And the reason you've probably never heard of it is that all too often the studs remained live when the tram had moved on. One hopes that things are more reliable now. -- Mark Brader "I like to think of [this] as self-explanatory." Toronto "I hope *I* think of [it] that way." -- Donald Westlake: "Trust Me On This" My text in this article is in the public domain. |
WCML classic service after HS2
In article ,
Arthur Figgis wrote: On 17/09/2011 16:14, Andy Breen wrote: The real question is - is charge cycle efficiency enough of a restrictive factor. It's not like the alternatives don't have serious issues of their own. Inductive charging or power supply is lossy, H2 is /really/ good at leaking out of storage (and producing the stuff and compressing or liquifying it are all monsterously lossy processes). I went on a tour of Diamond a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking about recent work to zap their small particles at some molecular structures which Nottingham university is developing to store hydrogen. My brain was at risk of starting to hurt, but it sounded convincing at the time. People have been talking about that for years. ISTR (but it was a long time ago so I could be very, very wrong) reading of tests where bullets were fired through hydrogen adsorption tanks, the kind that were intended for motor vehicle use, to prove that they wouldn't explode. Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal-organic_framework. Sam |
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On 20/09/2011 17:22, Sam Wilson wrote:
In , Arthur wrote: On 17/09/2011 16:14, Andy Breen wrote: The real question is - is charge cycle efficiency enough of a restrictive factor. It's not like the alternatives don't have serious issues of their own. Inductive charging or power supply is lossy, H2 is /really/ good at leaking out of storage (and producing the stuff and compressing or liquifying it are all monsterously lossy processes). I went on a tour of Diamond a couple of weeks ago, and they were talking about recent work to zap their small particles at some molecular structures which Nottingham university is developing to store hydrogen. My brain was at risk of starting to hurt, but it sounded convincing at the time. People have been talking about that for years. ISTR (but it was a long time ago so I could be very, very wrong) reading of tests where bullets were fired through hydrogen adsorption tanks, the kind that were intended for motor vehicle use, to prove that they wouldn't explode. I remember seeing film of just such a test on Tomorrow's World about 40 years ago. What they don't show is that you can do the same through a petrol tank. Tryhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal-organic_framework. Sam -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
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In article ,
Graeme Wall wrote: On 20/09/2011 17:22, Sam Wilson wrote: ... ISTR (but it was a long time ago so I could be very, very wrong) reading of tests where bullets were fired through hydrogen adsorption tanks, the kind that were intended for motor vehicle use, to prove that they wouldn't explode. I remember seeing film of just such a test on Tomorrow's World about 40 years ago. What they don't show is that you can do the same through a petrol tank. Don't be silly! Everyone knows that if you fire a gun in the rough direction of a car it will explode in a huge cloud of flame and black smoke. I've seen it on TV. And at the cinema. Same thing happens if you fire a shotgun at a domestic gas tank, even though there's nothing that burns with smoke in one of those. That was in The Bourne Identity and that's gritty and realistic so that must be true as well. Sam |
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On 20/09/2011 18:07, Sam Wilson wrote:
In , Graeme wrote: On 20/09/2011 17:22, Sam Wilson wrote: ... ISTR (but it was a long time ago so I could be very, very wrong) reading of tests where bullets were fired through hydrogen adsorption tanks, the kind that were intended for motor vehicle use, to prove that they wouldn't explode. I remember seeing film of just such a test on Tomorrow's World about 40 years ago. What they don't show is that you can do the same through a petrol tank. Don't be silly! Everyone knows that if you fire a gun in the rough direction of a car it will explode in a huge cloud of flame and black smoke. I've seen it on TV. And at the cinema. Same thing happens if you fire a shotgun at a domestic gas tank, even though there's nothing that burns with smoke in one of those. That was in The Bourne Identity and that's gritty and realistic so that must be true as well. Ah well, must be true then :-) -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 08:02:56 +0100, Graeme Wall
wrote: On 19/09/2011 07:42, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:23:49 on Sat, 17 Sep 2011, Nobody remarked: There is clearly something to be said for Electric/trolley buses. They are still very much in use in Boston, MA and San Francisco, CA. And Seattle, WA and Metro Vancouver, BC. And much of Eastern Europe. And Mendoza in Argentina. May be unique in Southern South America. With (at least some of their fleet) about 80 recycled Flyers from Vancouver, BC. They were shipped to a port in Chile, then over the Trans-Andean Highway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Mendoza |
WCML classic service after HS2
On 21/09/2011 01:34, Nobody wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 08:02:56 +0100, Graeme Wall wrote: On 19/09/2011 07:42, Roland Perry wrote: In , at 16:23:49 on Sat, 17 Sep 2011, remarked: There is clearly something to be said for Electric/trolley buses. They are still very much in use in Boston, MA and San Francisco, CA. And Seattle, WA and Metro Vancouver, BC. And much of Eastern Europe. And Mendoza in Argentina. May be unique in Southern South America. With (at least some of their fleet) about 80 recycled Flyers from Vancouver, BC. They were shipped to a port in Chile, then over the Trans-Andean Highway. Which is famed in cycling circles as having the longest downhill section in the world, something like 60 miles continuous downgrade travelling west to east. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Mendoza Interesting, they were still using the Solingen vehicles last time I was there. -- Graeme Wall This account not read, substitute trains for rail. Railway Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail |
WCML classic service after HS2
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In message , at 08:35:23
on Thu, 22 Sep 2011, remarked: There is clearly something to be said for Electric/trolley buses. They are still very much in use in Boston, MA and San Francisco, CA. And Seattle, WA and Metro Vancouver, BC. And much of Eastern Europe. Europe generally. Switzerland has quite a few systems. My picture of one in Geneva: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/25005195 Also in Lausanne. -- Roland Perry |
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:35:23 on Thu, 22 Sep 2011, remarked: There is clearly something to be said for Electric/trolley buses. They are still very much in use in Boston, MA and San Francisco, CA. And Seattle, WA and Metro Vancouver, BC. And much of Eastern Europe. Europe generally. Switzerland has quite a few systems. My picture of one in Geneva: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/25005195 Also in Lausanne. In more Swiss cities than I can immediately bring to mind. The 3-section buses in Zürich have a diesel that can power them off the wires at moderate speeds (I've stood next to one that got gapped at a tram/trolleybus crossing and fired up the donk to proceed). Robin |
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On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:21:50 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: Also in Lausanne. And the Riviera (Vevey to Villeneuve). Neil -- Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK |
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On 17/09/11 16:31, 77002 wrote:
Often wondered if there is an application for a streetcar/tram or electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. Who says it has to be a streetcar/tram. How about a regular private car? Battery & charge points in cities, but out on the motorway put a wire mesh over the road and extend a pickup pole to pick up the juice, kind of like what happens with dodgems or trolleybuses. Charge and power at the same time. Return current could go to a metal plate down the centre of the lane. |
WCML classic service after HS2
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:27:49 +0100
funkyoldcortina wrote: How about a regular private car? Battery & charge points in cities, but out on the motorway put a wire mesh over the road and extend a pickup pole to pick up the juice, kind of like what happens with dodgems or trolleybuses. Charge and power at the same time. It would have to be a bloody long pole if HGVs and double deckers are to fit under the mesh. B2003 |
WCML classic service after HS2
wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 08:43:07 +0100, "John C" wrote: electric/trolly bus that runs under wires where practical, but utilizes batteries for stretches where wires are not practical, or unsightly. Route number 3 in Gent is a trolley bus. I've seen them run short stretches away from the wires when going to or from the depot so they must have batteries. John That system closed in 2009 . G.Harman I didn't know that! Presume they now use normal buses. The trolley buses were ancient and I recall they were taken out of service for many months some years ago. I did note on a trip last year that they are digging up the town centre, the number 40 tram route was cut in two. John |
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