On 9/27/2011 8:44 AM, Bruce wrote:
d wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:16:44 +0100
Basil wrote:
On 2011\09\26 10:11, d wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:02:23 +0100
Basil wrote:
On 2011\09\26 09:48, d wrote:
Heard on a centrali line train this morning at white city: "This train will
be
delayed while the relief driver turns up. I'm told he's on the train
behind."

What utter utter ****wit dreamed up that rostering?

Obviously the guy was late for work. You clearly find it easier to
complain than to think.

How could he be late for work , he was driving the ****ing train behind!

You didn't say he was driving it.

Well he was in the cab of it. Either way , someone else should have taken
the roster.


What, you didn't volunteer?


Maybe I'm seeing this wrong, but if the relief driver is on the train
behind the one delayed in the station waiting for him how does he get
from the second train to his job in the first train? Do they link the
trains up like orbiting capsules??

In message of Sun, 9
Oct 2011 09:23:56 in uk.transport.london, redcat
writes
Maybe I'm seeing this wrong, but if the relief driver is on the train
behind the one delayed in the station waiting for him how does he get
from the second train to his job in the first train? Do they link the
trains up like orbiting capsules??

White City, the station in question has 4 platforms on 2 islands.

I imagine the OP's train stopped on 3/4 and the second train on the
adjacent 3/4 platform.
--
Walter Briscoe

In article ,
(redcat) wrote:

Maybe I'm seeing this wrong, but if the relief driver is on the train
behind the one delayed in the station waiting for him how does he get
from the second train to his job in the first train? Do they link the
trains up like orbiting capsules??

Can't trains stop in adjacent platforms at White City?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 10/9/2011 11:42 AM, Walter Briscoe wrote:
In messagecMKdnXIGi_33PQzTnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@earthlink .com of Sun, 9
Oct 2011 09:23:56 in uk.transport.london,
writes
Maybe I'm seeing this wrong, but if the relief driver is on the train
behind the one delayed in the station waiting for him how does he get
from the second train to his job in the first train? Do they link the
trains up like orbiting capsules??

White City, the station in question has 4 platforms on 2 islands.

I imagine the OP's train stopped on 3/4 and the second train on the
adjacent 3/4 platform.

Oh, thanks. You can tell I never used the White City stop. :-)

On Oct 9, 8:09*pm, redcat wrote:
On 10/9/2011 11:42 AM, Walter Briscoe wrote:

In messagecMKdnXIGi_33PQzTnZ2dnUVZ_gWdn...@earthlink .com *of Sun, 9
Oct 2011 09:23:56 in uk.transport.london,
writes
Maybe I'm seeing this wrong, but if the relief driver is on the train
behind the one delayed in the station waiting for him how does he get
from the second train to his job in the first train? Do they link the
trains up like orbiting capsules??

White City, the station in question has 4 platforms on 2 islands.

I imagine the OP's train stopped on 3/4 and the second train on the
adjacent 3/4 platform.

Oh, thanks. You can tell I never used the White City stop. :-)

I have to admit I had a vision of him jumping on board and shouting
"Follow that train!"

Neill

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:40:27 -0700 (PDT)
Owain wrote:
On Sep 26, 9:00=A0pm, "Richard J." wrote:
Well he was in the cab of it. Either way , someone else should have tak=
en
the roster.
And where do you expect that someone else to be? =A0On the platform just
in case he's needed, in which case there'll be a lot of extra hours
worked "just in case", or in the canteen 5 minutes' walk away?

Or, quite likely, at his booking on point at another station waiting
to go where he is needed first.

The clue may be in the term *relief* driver.

At least he came on the following train. He might have been sent by
taxi which would probably have taken even longer.

Of course if booking on points were at the end of line termini like on
most sensible systems it wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure there is someone
in LU who knows why changing drivers part way along a metro line is a good
idea but I'm buggered if I can think of a good reason.

B2003

On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:54:40 -0700 (PDT)
Owain wrote:
On Oct 12, 9:51=A0am, wrote:
The clue may be in the term *relief* driver.
Of course if booking on points were at the end of line termini like on
most sensible systems it wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure there is someone
in LU who knows why changing drivers part way along a metro line is a goo=
d
idea but I'm buggered if I can think of a good reason.

The clue may still be in the term *relief* driver.

Perhaps the original driver had been taken ill mid-shift? Or otherwise
relieved of his duty for safety/disciplinary reasons?

********. White city is a changeover point. It has nothing to do with
whether they're ill.

B2003

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 08:51:47AM +0000, d wrote:

Of course if booking on points were at the end of line termini like on
most sensible systems it wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure there is someone
in LU who knows why changing drivers part way along a metro line is a good
idea but I'm buggered if I can think of a good reason.

There's a large depot at White City, underneath the Westfield Palace of
Mental Torture. A fair number of trains turn around at White City
because you need more trains on the busy central part of the line than
in the outskirts where there's not so much traffic.

The depot is at White City because the original terminus was at
Shepherd's Bush - the depot was just past the end of the
passenger-carrying section of the line.

--
David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

Wow, my first sigquoting! I feel so special now!
-- Dan Sugalski

Far from the characteristics which the OP suggests, the people who have
developed LU's manning and rostering arrangements are

[a] quite bright
[b] successfully deploy a useful toolkit
[c] recognised for that by their peers

As Owain pointed out, basing a relief driver in mid-route makes obvious
sense. It is a practice widely adopted in the transport world, not a
mad LU invention.

When I had to look into rostering arrangements some years ago it was
interesting to see just how many factors have to be taken into account.
You don't just wave 'em out at dawn and back at bedtime! Or say 'OK,
we're working 12 trains on Wednesday, so let's have 13 drivers and tell
them to book on at 15 minute intervals from 0500hrsÉ'

Try a little exercise. You might find a pad of graph paper and a pencil
helpful. Or even one of those wonderful machines called computers,
which you might be surprised to discover can work out all manner of
mathematical and logical problems.

Plot the timetable - in elapsed time as well as clock time
Count the trains required
Do the maths on hours and breaks
Plot booking on and off times
Arrive at first-level daily and weekly crewing figure
Deduct for lieu days, CPD etc etc
Deduct for holidays
Deduct for sickness - do you assume constant at previous year or are
you improving?

É continue hard thinking until you arrive at a net figure

Review all above, particularly assumptions
Revise and repeat
Issue for consultation and review
Revise / repeat as required Ð welcome to the world of multiple iterations

É and as if by magic [or should that be more hard work] your roster appears.
Or not, in which case return to step 1 and start again.

Ken

On 2011-09-26 08:48:35 +0000, d said:

Heard on a centrali line train this morning at white city: "This train will be
delayed while the relief driver turns up. I'm told he's on the train behind."

What utter utter ****wit dreamed up that rostering?

B2003