On Oct 6, 10:49*am, BumYoghurt
wrote:
The circular route that is planned is a joke, as people mentioned, you
need to change at Clapham Junction (the LO platform is a joke there too,
covered in weeds, even after they closed it for 4 weeks for
maintenance). You'll probably be dropped from Crystal Palace/Surrey
Quays at Clapham on platform 17, leaving a 1-2 minutes walk to platform
2 for the LO interchange.

I think some are missing the (potential) bigger picture.

Extending the (outer SLL) Crystal Palace service to Clapham Junction
would use platforms 16 & 17, which could then be extended up the WLL
to Willesden Junction. The SLL service would then have platforms 2a &
2b all to itself. As has been mooted elsewhere, they could conceivably
then extend these to Wimbledon via East Putney if they rebuilt the
flyover at the very least...though they'd probably have to reinstate
platform 1 for that as well, depending on whether 2b is obtained by
building out the platform to make a bay or by dividing the platform
and using a crossover.

On Wed, Oct 05, 2011 at 11:16:49AM +0100, BumYoghurt wrote:

Just a bit furious as to why they won't extend the London Overground to
Streatham- especially when no new track needs to be built. Crystal
Palace to Clapham Junction would join up Balham, Wandsworth and
Streatham Hill/Common and all would be well with the world.

You can't just extend it to Streatham Hill/Common, because there's no
facilities for turning trains around - no bay platform, and not enough
capacity to let them tie up a through line for a few minutes without
seriously screwing up all the other routes. Instead of terminating at
Streatham Common, they'd have to go through Norbury and Thornton Heath
to Selhurst and then reverse in the depot, or go through to West Croydon
(but the bay platform is already in use there for other services) or to
East Croydon (which also already has trains being reversed there.
Similar for Streatham Hill.

Not to mention that those trains would have to cross several more
junctions, and share track with several more services, all of which
serves to make a service less reliable.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

comparative and superlative explained:

Huhn worse, worser, worsest, worsted, wasted

On Wed, Oct 05, 2011 at 03:53:52PM +0000, d wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 11:16:49 +0100
BumYoghurt wrote:
Just a bit furious as to why they won't extend the London Overground to
Streatham- especially when no new track needs to be built. Crystal
Palace to Clapham Junction would join up Balham, Wandsworth and
Streatham Hill/Common and all would be well with the world.
I think they are planning on making it circular at some point no?

Sort of. There will be no Overground services going *through* Clapham
Junction, and no services starting at Clapham Junction, going all the
way round the circle, and ending at Clapham Junction.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

You can't spell AWESOME without ME!

On Thu, Oct 06, 2011 at 04:57:58PM +0100, Paul Scott wrote:

I'd expect that resurfacing of the whole
platform, and reopening the second set of stairs, will be done once the work
actually starts at the station....

One has to wonder why that wasn't done at the same time as they laid the
extra track just north of the platform. Presumably platform 2 will have
to be closed *again* while those works are going on.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

23.5 degrees of axial tilt is the reason for the season

Does anyone know why not? I distinctly remember hearing Ken Livingstone in his day saying that the London Overground would provide London for the first time ever with a circular service through the suburbs. He quite obviously saw the London Overground as a kind of Outer Circle Line.

Currently we have services from New Cross etc terminating at Highbury And Islington while other services from Stratford go through Highbury And Islington to Clapham Junction. Why is this arrangement better than a straightforward Outer Circle system?

On Oct 7, 7:41*pm, Robin9 wrote:
David Cantrell;123554 Wrote:



There will be no Overground services going *through* Clapham
Junction, and no services starting at Clapham Junction, going all the
way round the circle, and ending at Clapham Junction.

Does anyone know why not? I distinctly remember hearing Ken Livingstone
in his day saying that the London Overground would provide London for
the first time ever with a circular service through the suburbs. He
quite obviously saw the London Overground as a kind of Outer Circle
Line.

Currently we have services from New Cross etc terminating at Highbury
And Islington while other services from Stratford go through Highbury
And Islington to Clapham Junction. Why is this arrangement better than a
straightforward Outer Circle system?

--
Robin9

Because it provides terminating points where the service can recover
as well as provide isolation from disruptions on the other half.

Think about what happens on the inner Circle Line when a train breaks
down. Nothing can pass it, so services back up, and until you get to a
point where you can reverse trains, everything grinds to a halt.

In an ideal world, you'd perhaps have two semi-circular services
operating on the Circle instead: Something like Kings Cross to South
Kensington via Liverpool St., and Kings Cross to South Kensington via
Notting Hill Gate. Problem is that some will want to get from one half
to the other without changing. Notting Hill to Liverpool St is easy -
use the Central Line, but something like Paddington to Aldgate is a
bit more problematic. Have another pair of overlapping services
perhaps, maybe between Tower Hill & Paddington...but space for the
terminating platforms needed is hard to find, so the ideal locations
aren't always possible.

"Jamie Thompson" wrote in message

On Oct 7, 7:41 pm, Robin9 wrote:
David Cantrell;123554 Wrote:



There will be no Overground services going *through* Clapham
Junction, and no services starting at Clapham Junction, going all
the way round the circle, and ending at Clapham Junction.

Does anyone know why not? I distinctly remember hearing Ken
Livingstone in his day saying that the London Overground would
provide London for the first time ever with a circular service
through the suburbs. He quite obviously saw the London Overground as
a kind of Outer Circle Line.

Currently we have services from New Cross etc terminating at Highbury
And Islington while other services from Stratford go through Highbury
And Islington to Clapham Junction. Why is this arrangement better
than a straightforward Outer Circle system?

--
Robin9

Because it provides terminating points where the service can recover
as well as provide isolation from disruptions on the other half.

Think about what happens on the inner Circle Line when a train breaks
down. Nothing can pass it, so services back up, and until you get to a
point where you can reverse trains, everything grinds to a halt.

In an ideal world, you'd perhaps have two semi-circular services
operating on the Circle instead: Something like Kings Cross to South
Kensington via Liverpool St., and Kings Cross to South Kensington via
Notting Hill Gate. Problem is that some will want to get from one half
to the other without changing. Notting Hill to Liverpool St is easy -
use the Central Line, but something like Paddington to Aldgate is a
bit more problematic. Have another pair of overlapping services
perhaps, maybe between Tower Hill & Paddington...but space for the
terminating platforms needed is hard to find, so the ideal locations
aren't always possible.

Well, that's why the Circle line is no longer circular: it's two
services that meet at Edgware Road. If you want to go from Bayswater to
Baker St, you have to change trains (unless you choose to go the much
longer wrong way round).

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
...

One has to wonder why that wasn't done at the same time as they laid the
extra track just north of the platform. Presumably platform 2 will have
to be closed *again* while those works are going on.

I expect because the works just done were part of the NLR improvement
project for the enhanced WLL frequency, and the work yet to be done is part
of the SLL project. A different type of money probably...

Paul S

You may well be right but that's a very negative line of reasoning. First, how often do they have train break-downs? Second, why not have a contingency plan for that kind split system in the event of a train break-down but in normal circumstances operate a conventional circular service?

Incidentally if splitting the service to provide a safety margin is so advantageous, why not use the idea to incorporate some of the extensions to the London Overground that have been suggested in this forum over the past few months. For example, instead of the current Richmond to Stratford service, why not Richmond to Caledonian Road and Queens Park to Stratford?

Some lovely insight here chaps, thanks!