Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

Do the platforms at Baker St. which are used by Met trains heading to/
from Aldgate ever get used for trains which terminate at Baker St.?
Are all the Met platforms at Baker St. used fairly intensively or is
there capacity for a train to be stabled out of use when defective or
as a stand-by?
Do trains stick to Aldgate or "non-Aldgate" services for most of the
day or do they interwork between the two?
What determines which diagrams will be allocated "A Stock" and which
"S Stock"?
Does the Chesham branch work better as a "through" service or should
it have been left as a shuttle?

--
gordon

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

wrote in message
...
Do the platforms at Baker St. which are used by Met trains heading to/
from Aldgate ever get used for trains which terminate at Baker St.?
Are all the Met platforms at Baker St. used fairly intensively or is
there capacity for a train to be stabled out of use when defective or
as a stand-by?
Do trains stick to Aldgate or "non-Aldgate" services for most of the
day or do they interwork between the two?
What determines which diagrams will be allocated "A Stock" and which
"S Stock"?
Does the Chesham branch work better as a "through" service or should
it have been left as a shuttle?

--
gordon
When the Aldgate service was peak hours only in T stock days the through
platforms were certainly used for the off peak terrminators.The station
could not have coped otherwise.
Don Davis

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

Not sure of the exact proportion, or where from, but yes several Met
services every hour terminate at Baker Street - it may be close to a
third.

Incidentally, those that continue to the city, certainly in the peak,
do not always get as far as Aldgate some terminate at Moorgate as
well.

The Met is also unusual in that, unlike other lines, there is a
concept of fast and slow trains the longer distant Met services being
non-stop over certain sections.

That's maybe where the different types of stock come in useful.

My observations at Aldgate, last I was there, showed the full set of
Met destinations being served so presumably it's a proportion of each
service that terminates at Baker Street.

I always find Baker St to be a bit of a pain, changing and traveling
onwards eastbound, trying to second guess which platform is going to
have the next service.

I just follow the crowd which seems to work.

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

wrote in message
...
Do the platforms at Baker St. which are used by Met trains heading to/
from Aldgate ever get used for trains which terminate at Baker St.?
Are all the Met platforms at Baker St. used fairly intensively or is
there capacity for a train to be stabled out of use when defective or
as a stand-by?
Do trains stick to Aldgate or "non-Aldgate" services for most of the
day or do they interwork between the two?
What determines which diagrams will be allocated "A Stock" and which
"S Stock"?
Does the Chesham branch work better as a "through" service or should
it have been left as a shuttle?

--
gordon

The all-day through services to/from Chesham haven't made a big difference.
Four cars were sufficient and the change at Chalfont isn't (wasn't!)
complicated. One unfortunate outcome might be that it may now be more
difficult to make a refund claim!

It is ironic that a passenger survey was held over the "proposed" changeover
from the shuttle to through services when, once the decision to acquire the
S stock had been made, the decision was surely a fait acconpli.

PA

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

Four cars were sufficient and the change at Chalfont isn't (wasn't!)
complicated. *

You could probably have made the same argument for the through trains
to Amersham by the time they had emptied out along the way.

Presumably, Chesham is as big a target as Amersham so the split
service makes sense to me if it really is going where enough of the
PAX wan't to go.

I always hate otherwise and the concept so often found in the sate -
the idea that operating convenience should be allowed to trump what
the customer's actually want, often for no very good reason.

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

"allantracy" wrote in message
...
Not sure of the exact proportion, or where from, but yes several Met
services every hour terminate at Baker Street - it may be close to a
third.

But I think the question was whether or not any trains terminate in the
through roads, rather than in the bays. I suspect the through roads can be
used, but it only happens when there are problems, or planned closures
beyond Baker St.

Paul S

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

On Oct 15, 5:07*pm, allantracy wrote:
Not sure of the exact proportion, or where from, but yes several Met
services every hour terminate at Baker Street - it may be close to a
third.

Sure, but I'm presuming that they terminate in the dead-end platforms.
What I'm wondering is whether the two "through" platforms *can* be
used for terminating trains (e.g. if services were temporarily
suspended between Baker St. and Aldgate).

I always find Baker St to be a bit of a pain, changing and traveling
onwards eastbound, trying to second guess which platform is going to
have the next service.

Agreed. Paddington can also be a bit irksome. If you're not heading to/
from the mainline station but travelling from say King's Cross you've
the option of changing trains at Edgware Road and getting a convenient
exit at Pad or travelling on a through train which decants you at the
back of beyond in the main station.

--
gordon

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

On Oct 15, 7:21*pm, " wrote:
On Oct 15, 5:07*pm, allantracy wrote:

Not sure of the exact proportion, or where from, but yes several Met
services every hour terminate at Baker Street - it may be close to a
third.

Sure, but I'm presuming that they terminate in the dead-end platforms.
What I'm wondering is whether the two "through" platforms *can* be
used for terminating trains (e.g. if services were temporarily
suspended between Baker St. and Aldgate).


Yes, seen that done, it may still happen when the service thins out in
the evening hours.

However, during the normal daytime timetable the through platforms
can't be left occupied long enough for a terminating train and the
bays are used instead.

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

On Oct 15, 5:54*pm, allantracy wrote:
Presumably, Chesham is as big a target as Amersham so the split
service makes sense to me if it really is going where enough of the
PAX wan't to go.

True. I just wondered whether there had been any perceived diminution
of reliability by Cheshamites used to a self-contained yo-yo-like
operation not subject to the potential for delay which would be more
prone to afflict the odd "through" journey and where the frequency is
low enough to make reference to a timetable a more likely thing than
many other parts of the LU network.

--
gordon

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

The last I read there were 10 S Stocks available for daily use on the
Met. One of the early units has been temporarily converted to a S7
for testing purposes - it was out and about last weekend between
Barking and Aldgate East.

The latest on District Dave is that from next week the S8s will be randomly
used on any Met service, because they can go anywhere, and enough of the
drivers are fully trained.

Paul S

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

"Don Davis" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Do the platforms at Baker St. which are used by Met trains heading to/
from Aldgate ever get used for trains which terminate at Baker St.?
Are all the Met platforms at Baker St. used fairly intensively or is
there capacity for a train to be stabled out of use when defective or
as a stand-by?
Do trains stick to Aldgate or "non-Aldgate" services for most of the
day or do they interwork between the two?
What determines which diagrams will be allocated "A Stock" and which
"S Stock"?
Does the Chesham branch work better as a "through" service or should
it have been left as a shuttle?

When the Aldgate service was peak hours only in T stock days the through
platforms were certainly used for the off peak terrminators.The station
could not have coped otherwise.

Not just T stock days. At least into the 1970s the entire Met Main Line
service (Uxbridge, Watford and Amersham) terminated at Baker Street off-peak
and weekends, using all four main line platforms at Baker Street.

The decision has been taken that the Met stock will all be S8 when it's all
been delivered. As this is too long for the Chalfont bay it will no longer
be possible to run the Chesham service as a shuttle. If the Croxley Link
gets built there may be a case for operating say a Chesham to Watford
Junction service.

Peter

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

On Oct 15, 8:04*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 07:26:35 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Do the platforms at Baker St. which are used by Met trains heading to/
from Aldgate ever get used for trains which terminate at Baker St.?

They can be used but I am not aware that they are routinely used. It
is possible that an early morning or late evening working does reverse
in those roads but it is not routine during the normal peak / off peak
times of the day.
Since the platforms were lengthened for S-stock last year, it is no
longer possible to reverse in platform 3. Platform 2 remains available
for reversing, but in practice is only so used in emergency.

Stuart J

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

wrote

True. I just wondered whether there had been any perceived diminution
of reliability by Cheshamites used to a self-contained yo-yo-like
operation not subject to the potential for delay which would be more
prone to afflict the odd "through" journey and where the frequency is
low enough to make reference to a timetable a more likely thing than
many other parts of the LU network.

I suspect that delays on through trains now have to be balanced against
times when connections were broken at Chalfont to/from the shuttle.

Peter

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

On Oct 15, 8:36*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
The decision has been taken that the Met stock will all be S8 when it's all
been delivered. As this is too long for the Chalfont bay it will no longer
be possible to run the Chesham service as a shuttle. If the Croxley Link
gets built there may be a case for operating say a Chesham to Watford
Junction service.

I completely understand and agree with the decision to have a uniform
S8 fleet...but I still don't buy the reasoning that it's more cost
effective to complicate the service pattern, reduce the service to
Amersham, pay for decommissioning the bay platform, and remove the 3-
track section than to move the set of points closest to the bay and
extend a concrete platform.

....here's hoping for the Croxley Link though...

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...


wrote

True. I just wondered whether there had been any perceived diminution
of reliability by Cheshamites used to a self-contained yo-yo-like
operation not subject to the potential for delay which would be more
prone to afflict the odd "through" journey and where the frequency is
low enough to make reference to a timetable a more likely thing than
many other parts of the LU network.

I suspect that delays on through trains now have to be balanced against
times when connections were broken at Chalfont to/from the shuttle.

Peter

tshanazt: No particular problems. The dodgiest periods have always been the
rush-hours and they were through trains both sides of the change-over.

Peter: That is what I meant by the greater difficulty in making claims.
Miss the connection at Chalfont due to the late-running of the very tight
connection off one of the Amersham services (always a dash!) and £11.00 was
yours for the asking!

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

wrote in message
...
Do the platforms at Baker St. which are used by Met trains heading to/
from Aldgate ever get used for trains which terminate at Baker St.?
Are all the Met platforms at Baker St. used fairly intensively or is
there capacity for a train to be stabled out of use when defective or
as a stand-by?
Do trains stick to Aldgate or "non-Aldgate" services for most of the
day or do they interwork between the two?
What determines which diagrams will be allocated "A Stock" and which
"S Stock"?
Does the Chesham branch work better as a "through" service or should
it have been left as a shuttle?

--
gordon

At the moment the off peak services tend to be self contained.
Amersham/Chesham fast services (four per hour) tend to terminate in the
north bay at Baker St. The Watford services (six per hour) terminate in the
bay south of the through lines. The Uxbridge services (six per hour) run
through to Aldgate.

From December the off peak timetable is being rewritten. From memory there
will be eight trains per hour from Uxbridge and eight from Moor Park, the
latter split into four from Watford, two from Amersham and two from Chesham.
Some trains will run through to Aldgate (from all destinations) while others
will terminate at Baker Street. There will also be inter working between
routes.

John

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

On 15/10/11 19:21, wrote:
I always find Baker St to be a bit of a pain, changing and traveling
onwards eastbound, trying to second guess which platform is going to
have the next service.

Agreed. Paddington can also be a bit irksome. If you're not heading to/
from the mainline station but travelling from say King's Cross you've
the option of changing trains at Edgware Road and getting a convenient
exit at Pad or travelling on a through train which decants you at the
back of beyond in the main station.

Travelling between King's Cross/Euston and Paddington (and various other
routes too, especially since the introduction of the "teacup") would be
easier if District/Circle trains could terminate at Baker Street instead
of Edgware Road, which would enable connections with Metropolitan
trains. I guess the work needed at Baker Street to enable that would
never be worth it though. There's a similar situation at Aldgate/Tower Hill

Roger

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

On Oct 15, 9:17*pm, StuartJ wrote:
On Oct 15, 8:04*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 07:26:35 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Do the platforms at Baker St. which are used by Met trains heading to/
from Aldgate ever get used for trains which terminate at Baker St.?

They can be used but I am not aware that they are routinely used. It
is possible that an early morning or late evening working does reverse
in those roads but it is not routine during the normal peak / off peak
times of the day.

Since the platforms were lengthened for S-stock last year, it is no
longer possible to reverse in platform 3. Platform 2 remains available
for reversing, but in practice is only so used in emergency.


Although my understanding is that reversal in platform 3 will be
recommissioned in the future, as part of the Sub Surface Lines
resignalling. The relevant crossover will be moved to allow S-stock to
reverse in the platform.

Baker St.(Met) and Met operations
 

On Oct 16, 3:13*pm, Andy wrote:
On Oct 15, 9:17*pm, StuartJ wrote:

On Oct 15, 8:04*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 07:26:35 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
Do the platforms at Baker St. which are used by Met trains heading to/
from Aldgate ever get used for trains which terminate at Baker St.?

They can be used but I am not aware that they are routinely used. It
is possible that an early morning or late evening working does reverse
in those roads but it is not routine during the normal peak / off peak
times of the day.

Since the platforms were lengthened for S-stock last year, it is no
longer possible to reverse in platform 3. Platform 2 remains available
for reversing, but in practice is only so used in emergency.

Although my understanding is that reversal in platform 3 will be
recommissioned in the future, as part of the Sub Surface Lines
resignalling. The relevant crossover will be moved to allow S-stock to
reverse in the platform.

Glad to hear this- there must be a significant loss of flexibility at
the moment.

Stuart J