On 09/12/2011 16:18, Peter Masson wrote:

[I said]

I don't know about 1890, but in the 1960s when I lived in
Wimbledon there certainly was a service to Holborn Viaduct
which called at London Bridge and Blackfriars - this was before
the 'Thameslink' service was developed, of course.



I doubt it.
After the July 1967 SR timetable revision there
certainly was a service that connected Wimbledon with London
Bridge, Blackfriars and Holborn Viaduct, but the routing was
London Bridge - Forest Hill - West Croydon - Sutton - Wimbledon -
Tooting - Tulse Hill - Herne Hill - Blackfriars - Holborn
Viaduct. This would not have been possible in 1890, as the
Wimbledon - Sutton line didn't open until 1930.

So one could travel direct from London Bridge but not to it? I'm
not clear what you're doubting, although I'm sure you are right
as I'm working from distant memory. You are of course right about
the Wimbledon - Sutton line being of late date.

I arrived in Wimbledon in September 1967, I didn't realise that I
was seeing a new service pattern, although I did discover I'd
missed the last steam trains by just a few months.

Charlie



Charlie

"Charlie Hulme" wrote in message
...
On 09/12/2011 16:18, Peter Masson wrote:

[I said]

I don't know about 1890, but in the 1960s when I lived in
Wimbledon there certainly was a service to Holborn Viaduct
which called at London Bridge and Blackfriars - this was before
the 'Thameslink' service was developed, of course.



I doubt it.
After the July 1967 SR timetable revision there
certainly was a service that connected Wimbledon with London
Bridge, Blackfriars and Holborn Viaduct, but the routing was
London Bridge - Forest Hill - West Croydon - Sutton - Wimbledon -
Tooting - Tulse Hill - Herne Hill - Blackfriars - Holborn
Viaduct. This would not have been possible in 1890, as the
Wimbledon - Sutton line didn't open until 1930.

So one could travel direct from London Bridge but not to it? I'm not clear
what you're doubting, although I'm sure you are right as I'm working from
distant memory. You are of course right about the Wimbledon - Sutton line
being of late date.

I arrived in Wimbledon in September 1967, I didn't realise that I was
seeing a new service pattern, although I did discover I'd missed the last
steam trains by just a few months.

Charlie



Charlie


I'm sure I worked London Bridge to London Bridge via Tulse Hill, Wimbledon,
Sutton and Forest Hill in 1980, seems a long time ago now.

On Dec 9, 11:02*am, David Cantrell wrote:
I'm reading the new Sherlock Holmes story "The House of Silk" by Anthony
Horowitz, and I'm very much afraid that he hasn't done his homework
properly. *He mentions a train service from Wimbledon to London Bridge
in November 1890. *I very much doubt that such a service existed, am I
right? *I'd like to check my facts before mentioning it in my book
review!

Certainly there is no such service now, and while the route was
*possible* (Wimbledon to Clapham Junction then onto the inner South
London Line and thence to London Bridge via Peckham Rye) I can't see
why it would exist, given that Wimbledon to Waterloo is so much shorter
and quicker, and Waterloo is so close to London Bridge anyway.

Certainly there is a Wimbledon to London Bridge service now, via Tulse
Hill.
Not many though, the ones I've found a

Southbound: 0600, 0630, 0658, 0729, 0806, 1706, 1737, 1808
Northbound: 0632, 0702, 0731, 0802

Doesn't seem to be any northbounds in the evening, and the southbound
takes an hour compared to the northbound's half hour because it goes
around the Sutton loop. (They start / terminate at Wimbledon)

Half an hour isn't probably much different to train to Waterloo and
tube or
walk to London Bridge.

On Dec 9, 12:30*pm, Charlie Hulme
wrote:
On 09/12/2011 12:17, Mizter T wrote:

[Cross-posted to uk.railway, where answers may lie...]

"David Cantrell" wrote:
I'm reading the new Sherlock Holmes story "The House of Silk"
by Anthony
Horowitz, and I'm very much afraid that he hasn't done his
homework
properly. He mentions a train service from Wimbledon to London
Bridge
in November 1890. I very much doubt that such a service
existed, am I
right? I'd like to check my facts before mentioning it in my book
review!

I don't know about 1890, but in the 1960s when I lived in
Wimbledon there certainly was a service to Holborn Viaduct which
called at London Bridge and Blackfriars - this was before the
'Thameslink' service was developed, of course.

Charlie

I have a facsimile LSWR timetable from 1914; this shows a regular
service from Ludgate Hill/St Paul's (now Blackfriars) to Wimbledon
plus a frequent rail motor service between Streatham and Wimbledon;
did any of these run through to London Bridge? The Streatham -
Wimbledon line (including the Merton Abbey loop) was jointly owned by
the LSWR and LBSCR, opening in 1868, so in theory a train service
could have run from London Bridge to Wimbledon. I do not know if the
LSWR timetable shows all services over the line, so there may have
been additional LBSCR services outwith the joint running agreement
that are not shown.

"Charlie Hulme" wrote

So one could travel direct from London Bridge but not to it? I'm not clear
what you're doubting, although I'm sure you are right as I'm working from
distant memory. You are of course right about the Wimbledon - Sutton line
being of late date.

You could get a through train in either direction between London Bridge and
Wimbledon in 1967, but it would go via West Croydon and Sutton. Currently
there are a few contra-peak direct trains between London Bridge and
Wimbledon via Peckham Rye, Tulse Hill and Tooting.

Peter

"Pat O'Neill" wrote in message
...


I'm sure I worked London Bridge to London Bridge via Tulse Hill,
Wimbledon, Sutton and Forest Hill in 1980, seems a long time ago now.

I'm sure that's right, but I'm not sure about the Forest Hill bit. I lived
in Tooting from 1980 to 1982. The standard off-peak service was London
Bridge-Peckham Rye-Tulse Hill-Streatham-Tooting-Wimbledon-Sutton-Mitcham
Junction-Streatham, then London Bridge via Peckham Rye again. In practice
they were advertised to Sutton IIRC. Stock was 4-SUB.

However, in the peaks they dived off down the 1 in 66 from Tulse Hill to
Herne Hill for Blackfriars and Holborn Viaduct. Herne Hill was always
entertaining because you had to cross the Boat Train Route on the level,
which meant fancy footwork by the signaller. With luck you'd get a 12-car +
MLV coming through. Those MLVs always seemed to pack quite a punch.

Regards

Jonathan

"Jonathan Morton" wrote in
message ...
"Pat O'Neill" wrote in message
...


I'm sure I worked London Bridge to London Bridge via Tulse Hill,
Wimbledon, Sutton and Forest Hill in 1980, seems a long time ago now.

I'm sure that's right, but I'm not sure about the Forest Hill bit. I lived
in Tooting from 1980 to 1982. The standard off-peak service was London
Bridge-Peckham Rye-Tulse Hill-Streatham-Tooting-Wimbledon-Sutton-Mitcham
Junction-Streatham, then London Bridge via Peckham Rye again. In practice
they were advertised to Sutton IIRC. Stock was 4-SUB.

However, in the peaks they dived off down the 1 in 66 from Tulse Hill to
Herne Hill for Blackfriars and Holborn Viaduct. Herne Hill was always
entertaining because you had to cross the Boat Train Route on the level,
which meant fancy footwork by the signaller. With luck you'd get a 12-car
+ MLV coming through. Those MLVs always seemed to pack quite a punch.

Regards

Jonathan

Quite a few scenarios for LB to LB rounders I had to learn quite a few.

Once upon a time, Pat O'Neill wrote:

I'm sure I worked London Bridge to London Bridge via Tulse Hill,
Wimbledon, Sutton and Forest Hill in 1980, seems a long time ago now.

I managed to read that as that you'd worked that way in 1890, which was
indeed a very long time ago! Vampires of uk.railway?

--
- The Iron Jelloid

"The Iron Jelloid" wrote in message
...
Once upon a time, Pat O'Neill wrote:

I'm sure I worked London Bridge to London Bridge via Tulse Hill,
Wimbledon, Sutton and Forest Hill in 1980, seems a long time ago now.

I managed to read that as that you'd worked that way in 1890, which was
indeed a very long time ago! Vampires of uk.railway?

--
- The Iron Jelloid

That's just a rumour I've been at Purley Loco since it was built in 1898.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011, Ian F. wrote:

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
k...

I'm reading the new Sherlock Holmes story "The House of Silk" by
Anthony Horowitz, and I'm very much afraid that he hasn't done his
homework properly. He mentions a train service from Wimbledon to
London Bridge in November 1890. I very much doubt that such a service
existed, am I right? I'd like to check my facts before mentioning it
in my book review!

National newspaper reviews of the book have been excellent, including
The Guardian, which said "So, all of the elements are the the data,
the data, the data. Nothing of consequence overlooked. And yet can
Horowitz, like Holmes, make from these drops of water the possibilities
of an Atlantic or a Niagara? Can he astonish us? Can he thrill us? Are
there "the rapid deductions, as swift as intuitions, and yet always
founded on a logical basis" that we yearn for? Emphatically, yes."

Not sure in which publication(s) your review will appear, David, but I
share, in the context of the entire novel, the nationals' lack of
concern for the minutiae of 1890s rail travel!

You have only to glance at a page of any of the newspapers in this country
to see their utter contempt for facts. It almost seems to be a matter of
pride. Mr Cantrell does not share this vice.

tom

--
I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years
before I was born. -- Mark Twain