being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

Hi Guys,

Was travelling with a 7 day Z12 Oyster travelcard today.

I had just entered Leicester Sq tube this evening when, because of
announced delays, I decided I'd change my mind and walk up to
Tottenham Court Road station and catch the Central line instead.

However, when I tried to leave Leicester Sq station,
the barrier refused my Oystercard (I didn't notice the code), and
when I approached the barrier supervisor he just waved me out through
his gate, leaving my card with no exit record.

This left me worrying all the way up Charing X Road, that my
Oystercard was now going to be all out of sync somehow, and that I
might not be allowed back into the system at TCR.

Luckily the barriers let me in as normal at TCR, but this left me with
a couple of questions, which I wondered if any of you wouldn't mind
answering?

Q1)
When travelling with an Oyster Travelcard, how does the system handle
a situation where you somehow exit a journey without exit-validating
your card?
Is there a danger that you could be charged a full 6 zone single
ticket from your pre-pay balance like would happen on a pure pre-pay
journey, or does the system assume you made a legal journey if your
next entry is 'within your zone'?

Q2)
In the above scenario where you exit from your entry station without
travelling, what would have happened if I had been travelling on an
Oyster PRE-PAY ticket?
a) Would I have been let back out of the barrier at Leicester Square
and charged a zone1 single?
b) or, not let back out of the barrier at Leicester Square, and
therefore charged a full 6 zone single if the assistant waved me
through?
c) or could I have got back out of Leicester Square with no charge?

If I would have been charged on pre-pay , is there an official
mechanism to avoid this? In the past, when travelling with a single
ticket, I've changed stations like above, by simply explaining to the
ticket gate guys what Id like to do, and they've let me in/out.

Many thanks for your replies!

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

In message ,
writes
Hi Guys,

Was travelling with a 7 day Z12 Oyster travelcard today.

I had just entered Leicester Sq tube this evening when, because of
announced delays, I decided I'd change my mind and walk up to
Tottenham Court Road station and catch the Central line instead.

However, when I tried to leave Leicester Sq station,
the barrier refused my Oystercard (I didn't notice the code), and
when I approached the barrier supervisor he just waved me out through
his gate, leaving my card with no exit record.

This left me worrying all the way up Charing X Road, that my
Oystercard was now going to be all out of sync somehow, and that I
might not be allowed back into the system at TCR.

Luckily the barriers let me in as normal at TCR, but this left me with
a couple of questions, which I wondered if any of you wouldn't mind
answering?

Q1)
When travelling with an Oyster Travelcard, how does the system handle
a situation where you somehow exit a journey without exit-validating
your card?

But from your description of the journey you did validate your card when
trying to exit at Leicester Square. You said the barrier refused your
Oyster card. It didn't; it read it and would have recorded a 26 (Entry
and Exit at same station)

If you had exited at a different station without validating your card
then you would be charged the maximum fare and then need to have your
unresolved journey resolved and the correct fare taken.

Is there a danger that you could be charged a full 6 zone single
ticket from your pre-pay balance like would happen on a pure pre-pay
journey, or does the system assume you made a legal journey if your
next entry is 'within your zone'?
Q2)
In the above scenario where you exit from your entry station without
travelling, what would have happened if I had been travelling on an
Oyster PRE-PAY ticket?
a) Would I have been let back out of the barrier at Leicester Square
and charged a zone1 single?
b) or, not let back out of the barrier at Leicester Square, and
therefore charged a full 6 zone single if the assistant waved me
through?

No, 26 wouldn't take anything from your Pre Pay

c) or could I have got back out of Leicester Square with no charge?

Yes.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

Kat wrote in message ...
In message ,
writes

No, 26 wouldn't take anything from your Pre Pay

c) or could I have got back out of Leicester Square with no charge?

Yes.


Absolute rubbish at Greenford at least

Yesterday at Greenford went in to station, swiped card in a fit of
stupidity cause i really wanted a one day travelcard and came out
again
Barrier opened but said seek assistance
£1.00 was deducted from my pre pay Ticket office staff said write in
but when I got back in evening Station Supervisor recredited my pound
Have you actually tried this is is your statement true sometimes but
not at others?

Phil Confused !

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

In message , Phil
writes
Kat wrote in message
...
In message ,
writes

No, 26 wouldn't take anything from your Pre Pay

c) or could I have got back out of Leicester Square with no charge?

Yes.


Absolute rubbish at Greenford at least

Yesterday at Greenford went in to station, swiped card in a fit of
stupidity cause i really wanted a one day travelcard and came out
again
Barrier opened but said seek assistance
£1.00 was deducted from my pre pay Ticket office staff said write in
but when I got back in evening Station Supervisor recredited my pound
Have you actually tried this is is your statement true sometimes but
not at others?

Phil Confused !

Look Phil Confused, I can only tell you what's happening from my own
experience..

People go in and out all the time for various reasons. It may depend on
the time interval. You need to take note of the error code on the POD
It may also depend on whether you have a season ticket on your Oyster. I
assume that you haven't or buying a Travel Card would not have been an
issue; the original poster had a 7 day 1/2 Oyster IIRC
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

On 10 Jan 2004 05:24:25 -0800, (Phil) wrote:

Kat wrote in message ...
In message ,
writes

No, 26 wouldn't take anything from your Pre Pay

c) or could I have got back out of Leicester Square with no charge?

Yes.


Absolute rubbish at Greenford at least

Yesterday at Greenford went in to station, swiped card in a fit of
stupidity cause i really wanted a one day travelcard and came out
again
Barrier opened but said seek assistance
£1.00 was deducted from my pre pay Ticket office staff said write in
but when I got back in evening Station Supervisor recredited my pound


What happened here is that Pre-Pay deducts a value (£1.60 in Z1 and £1
elsewhere IIRC) upon entry. It then works out whether to deduct any more
money at your eventual exit. These "deduct on entry" values are much
less than the intended maximum fare deduction which is specifically
designed to encourage people to validate on exit so that value is
*added* back to the card for those journeys which cost less than the
maximum fare. Therefore the system did the right thing in deducting the
money on *entry* not on exit which is what the OP referred to as they
had a Travelcard.

The recrediting of £1 was, in my view, the right thing to do. I do not
know what the rule book says so cannot say which member of staff did or
did not do "the right thing".

Have you actually tried this is is your statement true sometimes but
not at others?

There really isn't a lot of point in sniping at the LUL staff who post
here who are trying to help.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
What happened here is that Pre-Pay deducts a value (£1.60 in Z1 and £1
elsewhere IIRC) upon entry. It then works out whether to deduct any more
money at your eventual exit.

Now I'm confused.
I thought that the reader first determined if there was enough Pre Pay
to allow entry. (£1.60 Zone 1 or £1.00 other zones), then deducted the
maximum fare (which obviously might result in a negative balance) which
was refunded on exit if the fare was less or a negative balance if the
fare was more than the Pre Pay on the ticket.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:31:50 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
What happened here is that Pre-Pay deducts a value (£1.60 in Z1 and £1
elsewhere IIRC) upon entry. It then works out whether to deduct any more
money at your eventual exit.

Now I'm confused.
I thought that the reader first determined if there was enough Pre Pay
to allow entry. (£1.60 Zone 1 or £1.00 other zones), then deducted the
maximum fare (which obviously might result in a negative balance) which
was refunded on exit if the fare was less or a negative balance if the
fare was more than the Pre Pay on the ticket.

Oh you might be right - I thought I'd read here that the max fare
deduction on entry had been temporarily suspended. I shall have to
consult the Traffic Circular. Those of you on the front line are far
more likely to be correct than me - I just understand the theory of what
is supposed to happen rather than the detailed set up currently in
place.

To Mr Confused of Greenford - sorry, I'm potentially just as confused as
you. :-(
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

Oh you might be right - I thought I'd read here that the max fare
deduction on entry had been temporarily suspended. I shall have to
consult the Traffic Circular. Those of you on the front line are far
more likely to be correct than me - I just understand the theory of what
is supposed to happen rather than the detailed set up currently in
place.

You're right Paul ;-)


To Mr Confused of Greenford - sorry, I'm potentially just as confused as
you. :-(

We're all bl**dy confused now!

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:12:00 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On 10 Jan 2004 05:24:25 -0800, (Phil) wrote:
Have you actually tried this is is your statement true sometimes but
not at others?

There really isn't a lot of point in sniping at the LUL staff who post
here who are trying to help.

And may I say for the record, whose assistance and information is very
very much appreciated.


Cheers,

Jason.

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

Jason wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:12:00 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On 10 Jan 2004 05:24:25 -0800, (Phil) wrote:
Have you actually tried this is is your statement true sometimes but
not at others?

There really isn't a lot of point in sniping at the LUL staff who post
here who are trying to help.

And may I say for the record, whose assistance and information is very
very much appreciated.


Cheers,

Jason.

Sorry to snipe. It was out of order but as always what i said came out
wrong
I meant to say was this true at some stations and not at others and I
did qualify everything by saying that Greenford might be different.
It was a general winge about the system and not meant to be a personal
snipe. I value the help given by LT staff here too.

cheers PHIL

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

On 9 Jan 2004 12:30:06 -0800, (Matthew
Dickinson) wrote:


The system will charge you £5.10 for the unresolved journey, as it
doesn't check travelcard validity until after the journey is finished.

Now I'm confused?!?!? Are you saying it will charge you for not
"exiting" - even though you have a valid travelcard?

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

In message , K
writes
On 9 Jan 2004 12:30:06 -0800, (Matthew
Dickinson) wrote:


The system will charge you £5.10 for the unresolved journey, as it
doesn't check travelcard validity until after the journey is finished.

Now I'm confused?!?!? Are you saying it will charge you for not
"exiting" - even though you have a valid travelcard?

It's called an unresolved journey and has to be resolved by the ticket
office or by an RCI with a checker.
If you try to re-enter within your valid zone you won't be charged. If
outside the Oyster's validity, you'd probably be charged the excess to
that zone and then the extension cost back to your valid zone.
Of course, having some Pre Pay on your Oyster and making sure you touch
the reader at entry and exit does away with all these problems and makes
everyone's life much simpler.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:09:09 +0000, Kat
wrote:



It's called an unresolved journey and has to be resolved by the ticket
office or by an RCI with a checker.

That IMHO is ridiculous! The tube system isn't a closed system and
the instructions on the open parts only say you have to validate if
you're a prepay user. I would also not of known about it if I hadn't
read it on here - how are the vast majority of users meant to know
that?

If you try to re-enter within your valid zone you won't be charged. If
outside the Oyster's validity, you'd probably be charged the excess to
that zone and then the extension cost back to your valid zone.

That would be stealing from you, IMHO. How do they know you travelled
there on the tube?

Of course, having some Pre Pay on your Oyster and making sure you touch
the reader at entry and exit does away with all these problems and makes
everyone's life much simpler.

So why don't they say you always have to do that? The instructions at
the validators specifically say that pre-pay users have to do it,
implying others don't

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:09:09 +0000, Kat
wrote:



It's called an unresolved journey and has to be resolved by the ticket
office or by an RCI with a checker.

That IMHO is ridiculous! The tube system isn't a closed system and
the instructions on the open parts only say you have to validate if
you're a prepay user. I would also not of known about it if I hadn't
read it on here - how are the vast majority of users meant to know
that?

If you try to re-enter within your valid zone you won't be charged. If
outside the Oyster's validity, you'd probably be charged the excess to
that zone and then the extension cost back to your valid zone.

That would be stealing from you, IMHO. How do they know you travelled
there on the tube?

Of course, having some Pre Pay on your Oyster and making sure you touch
the reader at entry and exit does away with all these problems and makes
everyone's life much simpler.

So why don't they say you always have to do that? The instructions at
the validators specifically say that pre-pay users have to do it,
implying others don't


[I am not getting at you personally - rather at the way the system
works - I appreciate the advice and assistance you and others give!]

being let through barriers with an Oyster, a couple of Qs
 

You have always had to have your ticket ready for inspection even at
stations without barriers or staff. This is of course silly when most of the
time it is not required. This has meant the publicity has not been accurate
and is misleading.
I think you will find in the next few months a lot more will be done to
advertise the fact. It has already been highlighted as a problem hence the
fact the minimum fare is being charged at the moment. In the future this
will be changed.