http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

Also from the ASLEF website

"The union’s members working in London Underground have voted
overwhelmingly to take action on Boxing Day. The dispute concerns the
union’s insistence that the day must be covered by volunteers.

The union balloted its 2,200 Underground drivers and they returned a
92.3% vote in favour of action.

The whole dispute has been about seeking equitable quality time off
for our members but recognising those who do operate the service may
need to be incentivised.

The company is currently offering no additional payments for working
on Boxing Day. The union says its members may need ‘substantial
incentives’ to volunteer.

If the dispute is not resolved, the union intends to take further
action on 16 January and 3 and 13 February."


I wonder how much the threat of strike action is being used as a
negotiating tactic. After all, the dates in January and February are
not public holidays.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 04:37:41 -0800 (PST)
Paul wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

Also from the ASLEF website

"The union=92s members working in London Underground have voted
overwhelmingly to take action on Boxing Day. The dispute concerns the
union=92s insistence that the day must be covered by volunteers.

In other news - Brainless union members shocked to discover that public
transport has to operate on some public holidays.

What next , NHS staff striking because some people are selfishly getting
ill on xmas day?

B2003

I've just heard someone from London Underground management counter this assertion with the following: the terms of employment and payment were substantially renegotiated a few years ago to incorporate all the bonuses, overtime payments etc. into a hugely increased basic salary. That is why tube drivers now earn so much.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 04:37:41 -0800 (PST), Paul
wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

Also from the ASLEF website

"The union’s members working in London Underground have voted
overwhelmingly to take action on Boxing Day. The dispute concerns the
union’s insistence that the day must be covered by volunteers.

The union balloted its 2,200 Underground drivers and they returned a
92.3% vote in favour of action.

The whole dispute has been about seeking equitable quality time off
for our members but recognising those who do operate the service may
need to be incentivised.

The company is currently offering no additional payments for working
on Boxing Day. The union says its members may need ‘substantial
incentives’ to volunteer.

If the dispute is not resolved, the union intends to take further
action on 16 January and 3 and 13 February."


I wonder how much the threat of strike action is being used as a
negotiating tactic. After all, the dates in January and February are
not public holidays.

Should the management call their bluff and close the Underground for
the day? I am sure this would save a large sum of money and perhaps
assist with engineering. Loss of revenue would be limited because
some of the passengers must have season tickets and I don't expect
they could claim a refund, any more than claiming a refund for no
services on Christmas Day.

Should the management call their bluff and close the Underground for
the day? I am sure this would save a large sum of money and perhaps
assist with engineering. Loss of revenue would be limited because
some of the passengers must have season tickets and I don't expect
they could claim a refund, any more than claiming a refund for no
services on Christmas Day.

Have the TfL management, or any other's railway management, considered
calling for volunteers to be trained (and of course security, health etc
checked) as standby, volunteer drivers? I can see a host of problems
(sorry, "challenges") and expect there are many more I cannot see. But
I can also see (i) a lot of people queuing up to fulfil a childhood
dream and (ii) the prospect of a very big counterweight to the unions'
power.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

On Dec 14, 5:23*pm, Robin9 wrote:
Paul;125188 Wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

The company is currently offering no additional payments for working
on Boxing Day. The union says its members may need ‘substantial
incentives’ to volunteer.

I've just heard someone from London Underground management counter this
assertion with the following: the terms of employment and payment were
substantially renegotiated a few years ago to incorporate all the
bonuses, overtime payments etc. into a hugely increased basic salary.
That is why tube drivers now earn so much.

--
Robin9

Tube drivers get roughly the same as other main line train drivers (in
London) who incidentally don't have to work boxing day. They were also
told that only a skeleton service crewed by volunteers would run in
boxing day. Now LUL wants a full Saturday service.

As for training up volunteers : do you mean actually putting them
through the whole drivers selection and procedure (which 90% fail) and
a full drivers course complete with exams on everything to do with the
railway including how to fix broken down trains, what to do in
degraded situations, how the signalling and power supply works etc etc
or (training a driver costs around 100k) or... Shall we just bung a
few volunteers with a tube driver and let em take the controls after a
few stations?

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:23:46 -0800 (PST)
David B wrote:
Tube drivers get roughly the same as other main line train drivers (in
London) who incidentally don't have to work boxing day. They were also
told that only a skeleton service crewed by volunteers would run in
boxing day. Now LUL wants a full Saturday service.

And what? Which bit of the word "volunteer" are these numbnuts having a
problem with?

or (training a driver costs around 100k) or... Shall we just bung a
few volunteers with a tube driver and let em take the controls after a
few stations?

Given how useless drivers seem to be when there's a real problem would
anyone notice the difference? And on the automatic lines how hard can it
be to press a button. I suspect 90% fail because they're thick, not because
the job is hard. I've no doubt there are plenty of east europeans who would
work for half the wage and do a better job that the lazy, entitled idiots
who do it now.

B2003

On Dec 15, 10:02*am, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:23:46 -0800 (PST)

David B wrote:
Tube drivers get roughly the same as other main line train drivers (in
London) who incidentally don't have to work boxing day. They were also
told that only a skeleton service crewed by volunteers would run in
boxing day. Now LUL wants a full Saturday service.

And what? Which bit of the word "volunteer" are these numbnuts having a
problem with?

I think they are being made to work boxing day as if it were any other
ordinary day. Not voluntary.



or (training a driver costs around 100k) or... Shall we just bung a
few volunteers with a tube driver and let em take the controls after a
few stations?

Given how useless drivers seem to be when there's a real problem would
anyone notice the difference? And on the automatic lines how hard can it
be to press a button. I suspect 90% fail because they're thick, not because
the job is hard. I've no doubt there are plenty of east europeans who would
work for half the wage and do a better job that the lazy, entitled idiots
who do it now.

B2003

I'm a train driver. There's more to it than pressing a button even on
the automated lines. As said before exams have to be passed and
competences proven.

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 02:31:11 -0800 (PST)
David B wrote:
On Dec 15, 10:02=A0am, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:23:46 -0800 (PST)

David B wrote:
Tube drivers get roughly the same as other main line train drivers (in
London) who incidentally don't have to work boxing day. They were also
told that only a skeleton service crewed by volunteers would run in
boxing day. Now LUL wants a full Saturday service.

And what? Which bit of the word "volunteer" are these numbnuts having a
problem with?

I think they are being made to work boxing day as if it were any other
ordinary day. Not voluntary.

Boo hoo.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

"A spokesman said an agreement in 1992 specified drivers would earn about
£44,500, work a 35-hour week and have 43 days' leave.

As part of the agreement, Tube drivers have to work some public holidays,
including Boxing Day.

LU said it had reduced the number of drivers needed to work on Boxing Day after
Aslef raised the issue in 2010 and only a quarter of the 3,500 were needed on
the day. "

I'm a train driver. There's more to it than pressing a button even on
the automated lines. As said before exams have to be passed and
competences proven.

My mistake, you have to press a button then make sure you don't spill your
coffee on your paper as the train moves off.

You have to take a test and an exam to get a driving license but most muppets
manage it and I suspect driving a car is a damn site more complicated and
requires a lot more situation awareness than driving a train. I'm a bit
sick of hearing how complex it is to drive something that sits on rails and
only requires its speed to be controlled. Try telling a nurse on less than
half your salary how tough it is when she's been up all night looking after
a vomiting patient.

B2003

On Dec 15, 11:08*am, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 02:31:11 -0800 (PST)

David B wrote:
On Dec 15, 10:02=A0am, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:23:46 -0800 (PST)

David B wrote:
Tube drivers get roughly the same as other main line train drivers (in
London) who incidentally don't have to work boxing day. They were also
told that only a skeleton service crewed by volunteers would run in
boxing day. Now LUL wants a full Saturday service.

And what? Which bit of the word "volunteer" are these numbnuts having a
problem with?

I think they are being made to work boxing day as if it were any other
ordinary day. Not voluntary.

Boo hoo.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

"A spokesman said an agreement in 1992 specified drivers would earn about
£44,500, work a 35-hour week and have 43 days' leave.

As part of the agreement, Tube drivers have to work some public holidays,
including Boxing Day.

LU said it had reduced the number of drivers needed to work on Boxing Day after
Aslef raised the issue in 2010 and only a quarter of the 3,500 were needed on
the day. "

I'm a train driver. There's more to it than pressing a button even on
the automated lines. As said before exams have to be passed and
competences proven.

My mistake, you have to press a button then make sure you don't spill your
coffee on your paper as the train moves off.

You have to take a test and an exam to get a driving license but most muppets
manage it and I suspect driving a car is a damn site more complicated and
requires a lot more situation awareness than driving a train. I'm a bit
sick of hearing how complex it is to drive something that sits on rails and
only requires its speed to be controlled. Try telling a nurse on less than
half your salary how tough it is when she's been up all night looking after
a vomiting patient.

B2003

And I'm sick of people telling us how easy our job is when they dont
have experience of both jobs. And no you can't compare a car and as
you don't drive both. I don't drive an automated train; I'm not a tube
driver. But I do hold a manual license to drive coaches so I know what
one is like compared with the other. You're right most muppets have a
driving license. But very few (around 18000 in this country) have a
license to drive trains.

Nurses deserve more pay. Why should GPs get over 100k when nurses get
a quarter that?