Kings Cross exhibition
 

Just announced by Network Rail

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...TURE-198f.aspx

--
Paul C
via Google

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In article
,
(plcd1) wrote:

Just announced by Network Rail


http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...ROSS-PASSENGER
S-OFFERED-A-GLIMPSE-INTO-THE-FUTURE-198f.aspx

I'm confused. I thought I read that the new concourse opened just before
Christmas?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message
, at
00:01:16 on Thu, 12 Jan 2012, plcd1 remarked:
Just announced by Network Rail

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...G-S-CROSS-PASS
ENGERS-OFFERED-A-GLIMPSE-INTO-THE-FUTURE-198f.aspx

" to improve passenger flow passengers will only be able to enter the
platforms via the new concourse and will exit via the old concourse."

Classic Hutbers Law.

ps I thought the original plan was to allow at least some access to the
lower-numbered platforms through gates on the ground floor.
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

" to improve passenger flow passengers will only be able to enter the
platforms via the new concourse and will exit via the old concourse."

ps I thought the original plan was to allow at least some access to the
lower-numbered platforms through gates on the ground floor.

He might mean 'generally'. But yes, all the relevant planning application
drawings do show a small group of entry gates at the east end of the station
front.

OTOH the words footbridge, escalator or lifts aren't mentioned so presumably
you'll take that as proof they haven't been provided?

Paul S

Kings Cross exhibition
 

wrote in message
...
In article
,
(plcd1) wrote:

Just announced by Network Rail


http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...ROSS-PASSENGER
S-OFFERED-A-GLIMPSE-INTO-THE-FUTURE-198f.aspx

I'm confused. I thought I read that the new concourse opened just before
Christmas?

No, they just announced that major construction work was completed.

Unnecessary spin really...

Paul S

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 11:09:21 on
Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Paul Scott remarked:
" to improve passenger flow passengers will only be able to enter the
platforms via the new concourse and will exit via the old concourse."

ps I thought the original plan was to allow at least some access to the
lower-numbered platforms through gates on the ground floor.

He might mean 'generally'. But yes, all the relevant planning application
drawings do show a small group of entry gates at the east end of the station
front.

Will have to visit the exhibition I suppose.

OTOH the words footbridge, escalator or lifts aren't mentioned so presumably
you'll take that as proof they haven't been provided?

Now now. They are the means by which access "via the new concourse" is
provided.
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 03:34:15
on Thu, 12 Jan 2012, remarked:
I'm confused. I thought I read that the new concourse opened just before
Christmas?

There was an announcement that "major construction was completed" in
December. iirc that's the one with the strangely worded "rebuild WW2
bomb damage" - recreating an authentic 'recently bombed' look.

--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote
(plcd1) wrote:

Just announced by Network Rail
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...TURE-198f.aspx

I'm confused. I thought I read that the new concourse opened just before
Christmas?

No, but bits of it are easily visible. The new main departure board
(visible from the barrier line for platforms 9 to 11) was working yesterday;
it is more 'conventional' than the one in the current concourse, no longer
having separate sections for FCC and main-line services.

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 11:09:21 on
Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Paul Scott remarked:
" to improve passenger flow passengers will only be able to enter the
platforms via the new concourse and will exit via the old concourse."

ps I thought the original plan was to allow at least some access to the
lower-numbered platforms through gates on the ground floor.

He might mean 'generally'. But yes, all the relevant planning
application drawings do show a small group of entry gates at the east end
of the station front.

Will have to visit the exhibition I suppose.

OTOH the words footbridge, escalator or lifts aren't mentioned so
presumably you'll take that as proof they haven't been provided?

Now now. They are the means by which access "via the new concourse" is
provided.

But not the only means. There will be a level route through where the shops
were on platform 8. That much I was assured of as it's the only route for
cycles.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:

Will have to visit the exhibition I suppose.

Since the exhibition apparently conists of "new CGI images, a map and
iPads giving people the chance to play a quiz" you'd have thought they
could have provided an online version so that people who might be
planning to travel through KX could also see it.

Sam

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message
, at
17:11:28 on Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Sam Wilson remarked:
Will have to visit the exhibition I suppose.

Since the exhibition apparently conists of "new CGI images, a map and
iPads giving people the chance to play a quiz" you'd have thought they
could have provided an online version so that people who might be
planning to travel through KX could also see it.

I did think about that when I posted earlier, but they obviously want
only a captive audience.
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:09:21 on Thu,
12 Jan 2012, Paul Scott remarked:

OTOH the words footbridge, escalator or lifts aren't mentioned so
presumably
you'll take that as proof they haven't been provided?

Now now. They are the means by which access "via the new concourse" is
provided.

No, they are the means by which only some of the access is provided, for
those passengers who happen to be on the mezzanine catering level. The main
access is through the ground floor alongside the south end of platform 8.
This is why platforms 5-8 have been shortened, to provide the necessary
ground level circulation space.

Paul S

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 18:20:45 on
Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Paul Scott remarked:

OTOH the words footbridge, escalator or lifts aren't mentioned so
presumably you'll take that as proof they haven't been provided?

Now now. They are the means by which access "via the new concourse"
is provided.

No, they are the means by which only some of the access is provided,
for those passengers who happen to be on the mezzanine catering level.
The main access is through the ground floor alongside the south end of
platform 8. This is why platforms 5-8 have been shortened, to provide
the necessary ground level circulation space.

That's where I'm going wrong - the area you mention is currently part of
the "old concourse" (to be allegedly exit-only), although what they
probably mean is that the exit-only area is the "to be demolished" part
of the old concourse.
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 18:20:45 on
Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Paul Scott
remarked:

OTOH the words footbridge, escalator or lifts aren't mentioned so
presumably you'll take that as proof they haven't been provided?

Now now. They are the means by which access "via the new concourse"
is provided.

No, they are the means by which only some of the access is provided,
for those passengers who happen to be on the mezzanine catering level.
The main access is through the ground floor alongside the south end of
platform 8. This is why platforms 5-8 have been shortened, to provide
the necessary ground level circulation space.

That's where I'm going wrong - the area you mention is currently part
of the "old concourse" (to be allegedly exit-only), although what
they probably mean is that the exit-only area is the "to be
demolished" part of the old concourse.

It's exit as in exit from the station. There will be a large circulation
area inside the barriers across the end of the platforms which will allow
access to the new concourse.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 03:06:53
on Fri, 13 Jan 2012, remarked:
There will be a large circulation area inside the barriers across the
end of the platforms which will allow access to the new concourse.

FSVO "large", especially at the eastern end (there's about 10m between
the P1-4 buffers and the outside wall, some of which will be gateline).

That's why they want everyone to exit south, out onto the plaza. And
people not to be trying to get *onto* the lower numbered platforms other
than by the bridge.
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 03:06:53 on
Fri, 13 Jan 2012, remarked:
There will be a large circulation area inside the barriers across the end
of the platforms which will allow access to the new concourse.

FSVO "large", especially at the eastern end (there's about 10m between the
P1-4 buffers and the outside wall, some of which will be gateline).

That's why they want everyone to exit south, out onto the plaza. And
people not to be trying to get *onto* the lower numbered platforms other
than by the bridge.

My deja-vu alarm is sounding now - and as you should possibly recall from
the passenger flow diagrams discussed a while back, the _main_ entry route
to the platforms 0-8 for departing passengers is clearly shown to be via the
ground floor at the south end of the western range, and round the buffer
stop ends. The weighting of the flow arrows on the diagrams makes this
abundantly clear. No-one is going to be forced to go up to the mezzanine
level and down again onto the platforms - there just isn't the capacity
anyway when you note the relative numbers of ticket barriers and the
comparative physical space shown.

Additionally, departing passengers (ie those arriving on trains departing
the station to outside) also have a route into the western concourse without
going outside, as the relevant barrier line is also shown as two way,
although heavily biased into the station.

[In a short series of posts back whenever we discussed the fact that the use
of the terms arriving and departing was counter-intuitive and was referring
to the street rather than the trains.]

Paul S

Kings Cross exhibition
 

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 12:09:31 +0000, John Salmon wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote
(plcd1) wrote:

Just announced by Network Rail
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.../KING-S-CROSS-
PASSENGERS-OFFERED-A-GLIMPSE-INTO-THE-FUTURE-198f.aspx

I'm confused. I thought I read that the new concourse opened just
before Christmas?

No, but bits of it are easily visible. The new main departure board
(visible from the barrier line for platforms 9 to 11) was working
yesterday; it is more 'conventional' than the one in the current
concourse, no longer having separate sections for FCC and main-line
services.

Coincidentally, I had some time to kill and was in the area so had a look
around, and there is an awful lot more to see now than last time I was
there.

It still looks a bit strange, with the new roof looking out of place
against the old building, so I hope it all comes together better.

You can see all the balcony etc and where the stairways are - it seems a
little cramped, but I guess it'll look much better when completed.

The area between St P and Kings X (further north of the new section) is
starting to look better though, and as the work carries on, there are
signs it will be a very busy neighbourhood.

Kings Cross exhibition
 

Martin Petrov wrote:

Coincidentally, I had some time to kill and was in the area so had a look
around, and there is an awful lot more to see now than last time I was
there.

It still looks a bit strange, with the new roof looking out of place
against the old building, so I hope it all comes together better.


I think the architect is trying to achieve a similar effect to the
overall roof over the inner courtyard of the British Museum, which
works pretty well:

http://www.jemmalambert.co.uk/shutterjunkie/index.php?showimage=187

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 13:29:17 on
Sat, 14 Jan 2012, Bruce remarked:
Coincidentally, I had some time to kill and was in the area so had a look
around, and there is an awful lot more to see now than last time I was
there.

It still looks a bit strange, with the new roof looking out of place
against the old building, so I hope it all comes together better.

I think the architect is trying to achieve a similar effect to the
overall roof over the inner courtyard of the British Museum, which
works pretty well:

http://www.jemmalambert.co.uk/shutterjunkie/index.php?showimage=187

"enlivens the original Victorian Cubitt design". Either that, or a
massive UFO crash-landed.

http://kingscrossenvironment.com/201...ern-concourse-
complete/
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

Can I just apologise and say my original post was to provide some info
for people and not trigger the "Roland Kings Cross debate" back into
life.

LOL...

I predict now that if you provide useful photographic evidence of how it all
works in due course (as you helpfully did with the NTH), it still won't be
believed in some quarters...

Paul S

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 17:02:32 on
Sun, 15 Jan 2012, Paul Corfield remarked:
Can I just apologise and say my original post was to provide some info
for people and not trigger the "Roland Kings Cross debate" back into
life.

Sorry about that. The good news (except perhaps for people travelling
the same day) is that I'll be off to Kings Cross in a couple of weeks
and will drop in and look at the exhibition.

The bad news is that I'm still far from convinced it's a good idea to
have a trainload of people heading for Platform 0 at ground level at
t-minus 10 minutes, at the same time a different trainload is unloading
from any of platforms 1-4.

And the poor way that passengers flows were planned at St Pancras
doesn't help give me confidence.
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

The bad news is that I'm still far from convinced it's a good idea to
have a trainload of people heading for Platform 0 at ground level at
t-minus 10 minutes, at the same time a different trainload is
unloading from any of platforms 1-4.

And the poor way that passengers flows were planned at St Pancras
doesn't help give me confidence.

I share your concerns, Roland. Luckily I'm going there far less often now
that in the last decade.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Kings Cross exhibition
 

I think that the only really bad passenger flow at St Pancras is that
international arrivals passengers emerge at right angles into the busiest
walking route to/from the Tube station, along with a gaggle of meeters and
greeters standing around.

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at
14:31:45 on Mon, 16 Jan 2012, SteveL
remarked:
I think that the only really bad passenger flow at St Pancras is that
international arrivals passengers emerge at right angles into the
busiest walking route to/from the Tube station, along with a gaggle of
meeters and greeters standing around.

That's one of the three on my list. The other two a

The rush of international arrivals passengers flowing through the "room
of columns" and into the end of the western ticket hall, conflicting
with passengers making their way in the opposite direction.

The single escalator down from the Midland Mainline concourse. OK,
there's another escalator and a couple of lifts in the mid-distance, but
they are ignored by most passengers and are only of any use if your
destination is towards the western ticket hall.

iirc there's also only single escalators (and one lift) to/from the Kent
Domestic platforms, but they see fewer passengers there (until the
Olympics, perhaps).

(It's not ideal that arriving International passengers also have to walk
the entire length of the train, and further, then u-turn back. But it's
much the same as that at Brussels.)
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 18:23:48 on
Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Paul Corfield remarked:
The exit route will be off the south end of the concourse as expected.
The footbridge and escalators will be for those using the upper level
of the new concourse. I took a little walk round and I think there
will a large circulating area between the buffer stops and exit
gateline. While I take your point about the potential for mixed flows
I wonder if the new way of working will be any worse than people
pouring off trains on to a small jam packed concourse with people
simultaneously heading on to trains.

One of the changes they've made in the last year or two (I can't say
exactly when) was to rope off a corridor across the old concourse in
front of the departure board. I suppose that directs people towards the
newish stairs down to the tube station, but it does reduce the number of
people filtering through the waiting crowds.

Although that begs the question of the waiting crowds. Years ago they
used to have queue "lanes" marked on the floor of the concourse and
people would more or less stand in lines waiting for their train to be
ready. Now it's just one chaotic scrum because no-one is told which
platform the train is leaving from until the very last minute.

Presumably they'll be trying to encourage people to wait on the new
concourse for the platform announcement, rather than filtering through
the barriers to the platform area and then waiting. That's the scheme at
StPancrasMML, assisted by a lack of platform information beyond the
barriers. Of course, what that does is create a long queue for the
barriers as soon as the platform is announced, with people increasingly
anxious that the train's going to leave without them.

I don't wish to debate the rights or wrongs of St Pancras. I would
merely comment that neither station is a green field site and
therefore there will inevitably be some compromises about how you deal
with flows when dealing with intensive train services and the related
floods of passengers.

The first set of escalators for the MML platforms should have been
turned through 90 degrees, to end near their ticket office. As it is,
the MML concourse is needlessly remote from that ticket office, the main
departure board (which seems a bit lost where it is at the moment) the
toilets, SPILL barriers and the Northern ticket hall for the tube. Even
if the rest of the design remained, that one small change would make
quite a difference.

Kings Cross will be an interesting "experiment", because I can't think
of another big terminus where there's not a substantial concourse beyond
the buffers. I know they realise they have issues at Kings Cross with
persuading passengers toward the Piazza (doubtless vainly when it's
pouring with rain outside).
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 18:23:48
on Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Paul Corfield remarked:
The exit route will be off the south end of the concourse as expected.
The footbridge and escalators will be for those using the upper level
of the new concourse. I took a little walk round and I think there
will a large circulating area between the buffer stops and exit
gateline. While I take your point about the potential for mixed flows
I wonder if the new way of working will be any worse than people
pouring off trains on to a small jam packed concourse with people
simultaneously heading on to trains.

One of the changes they've made in the last year or two (I can't say
exactly when) was to rope off a corridor across the old concourse in
front of the departure board. I suppose that directs people towards
the newish stairs down to the tube station, but it does reduce the
number of people filtering through the waiting crowds.

You have misunderstood the purpose of that corridor. If you look carefully
you can see that it was created because the route between the halves of the
train shed near the platform ends has been gated off so there is otherwise
no route to the barriers opposite platforms 0-4 from the ends of the other
platforms.

Although that begs the question of the waiting crowds. Years ago they
used to have queue "lanes" marked on the floor of the concourse and
people would more or less stand in lines waiting for their train to
be ready. Now it's just one chaotic scrum because no-one is told
which platform the train is leaving from until the very last minute.

The queue lanes still exist but seem not to be used very often.

Presumably they'll be trying to encourage people to wait on the new
concourse for the platform announcement, rather than filtering
through the barriers to the platform area and then waiting. That's
the scheme at StPancrasMML, assisted by a lack of platform
information beyond the barriers. Of course, what that does is create
a long queue for the barriers as soon as the platform is announced,
with people increasingly anxious that the train's going to leave
without them.

All true.

I don't wish to debate the rights or wrongs of St Pancras. I would
merely comment that neither station is a green field site and
therefore there will inevitably be some compromises about how you deal
with flows when dealing with intensive train services and the related
floods of passengers.

The first set of escalators for the MML platforms should have been
turned through 90 degrees, to end near their ticket office. As it is,
the MML concourse is needlessly remote from that ticket office, the
main departure board (which seems a bit lost where it is at the
moment) the toilets, SPILL barriers and the Northern ticket hall for
the tube. Even if the rest of the design remained, that one small
change would make quite a difference.

Kings Cross will be an interesting "experiment", because I can't
think of another big terminus where there's not a substantial
concourse beyond the buffers. I know they realise they have issues at
Kings Cross with persuading passengers toward the Piazza (doubtless
vainly when it's pouring with rain outside).

We shall see.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 03:15:27
on Tue, 17 Jan 2012, remarked:
One of the changes they've made in the last year or two (I can't say
exactly when) was to rope off a corridor across the old concourse in
front of the departure board. I suppose that directs people towards
the newish stairs down to the tube station, but it does reduce the
number of people filtering through the waiting crowds.

You have misunderstood the purpose of that corridor. If you look carefully
you can see that it was created because the route between the halves of the
train shed near the platform ends has been gated off so there is otherwise
no route to the barriers opposite platforms 0-4 from the ends of the other
platforms.

Hmm, why would you want to get to platforms 0-4 *from* platforms 5-8,
without first standing around in the crowd waiting to see which platform
you want? Although that's a bit recursive, because until the platform's
announced you don't know you need to head for p0-4.

I don't see much need for a "bypass" there for passengers catching
trains who happen to be near platform 8 when their number is called, but
it's heavily used by people leaving p0-4.

--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:20:53 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 17:02:32
on Sun, 15 Jan 2012, Paul Corfield remarked:
Can I just apologise and say my original post was to provide some
info for people and not trigger the "Roland Kings Cross debate"
back into life.

Sorry about that. The good news (except perhaps for people travelling
the same day) is that I'll be off to Kings Cross in a couple of weeks
and will drop in and look at the exhibition.

I dropped in on the way home this evening. It's just a small stand by
the KX main ticket office. There is a small screen and a couple of
I-Pads which have teaser questions on them. Leaflets and a plan (on
the counter top) are also available.

Yes, I popped in yesterday, too. I entered the station from the St P
direction, and encountered a couple of chaps handing out leaflets about
the changes. I asked one of them about this 'exhibition', and he'd never
heard of it. I then managed to find it, but it's so small that it's very
easy to miss. I couldn't be bothered to play with the iPads, and
wandered off. But I do think the new concourse roof looks terrific.

Kings Cross exhibition
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...

remarked:

One of the changes they've made in the last year or two (I can't say
exactly when) was to rope off a corridor across the old concourse in
front of the departure board. I suppose that directs people towards the
newish stairs down to the tube station, but it does reduce the number of
people filtering through the waiting crowds.

You have misunderstood the purpose of that corridor. If you look carefully
you can see that it was created because the route between the halves of
the train shed near the platform ends has been gated off so there is
otherwise no route to the barriers opposite platforms 0-4 from the ends of
the other platforms.

Hmm, why would you want to get to platforms 0-4 *from* platforms 5-8,
without first standing around in the crowd waiting to see which platform
you want? Although that's a bit recursive, because until the platform's
announced you don't know you need to head for p0-4.

I don't see much need for a "bypass" there for passengers catching trains
who happen to be near platform 8 when their number is called, but it's
heavily used by people leaving p0-4.

I agree with Roland's interpretation here - I mainly use that 'bypass' to
exit from the lower-numbered platforms towards the Travel Centre/newish
underground entrance, and I think it was 'created' (or 'signed', to be more
accurate) at around the same time as the 0-5 barriers became operational.

Nitpick: the two sides are 0-5 and 6-8, not 0-4 and 5-8.

Kings Cross exhibition
 

Roland Perry wrote in
:

You have misunderstood the purpose of that corridor. If you look
carefully you can see that it was created because the route between
the halves of the train shed near the platform ends has been gated off
so there is otherwise no route to the barriers opposite platforms 0-4
from the ends of the other platforms.

Hmm, why would you want to get to platforms 0-4 *from* platforms 5-8,
without first standing around in the crowd waiting to see which
platform you want? Although that's a bit recursive, because until the
platform's announced you don't know you need to head for p0-4.

I don't see much need for a "bypass" there for passengers catching
trains who happen to be near platform 8 when their number is called,
but it's heavily used by people leaving p0-4.

On a Friday afternoon (eg) the place is heaving. If you are waiting in
front of the departure board towards the west (St Pancras) side and your
train is announced from 0-4, it used to be easiest to walk round behind the
board.

Now you can't. It's not 'gated' in the sense that there are gates you can
get through; it's totally blocked. You have to use the bypass lane, which
is not really wide enough for 2-way traffic of people dragging their life's
possessions on wheels.

Something needs to be done about it. Perhaps they could build a new
concourse somewhere :-)

Peter

--
|| Peter CS ~ Epsom ~ UK | pjcs02 [at] gmail.com |

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 12:02:33 on Tue, 17
Jan 2012, Peter Campbell Smith remarked:
I don't see much need for a "bypass" there for passengers catching
trains who happen to be near platform 8 when their number is called,
but it's heavily used by people leaving p0-4.

On a Friday afternoon (eg) the place is heaving. If you are waiting in
front of the departure board towards the west (St Pancras) side and your
train is announced from 0-4, it used to be easiest to walk round behind the
board.

And access the platform without having to queue for an automatic gate.
The extra flow capacity was useful.

Now you can't. It's not 'gated' in the sense that there are gates you can
get through; it's totally blocked.

I agree with your description of the geography.

You have to use the bypass lane,

Which jumps the queue/scrum of people heading from the central/eastern
part of the concourse towards the gates 0-5. Every man for himself, but
there's no operational need for a facility for queue-jumpers, given that
the barriers are inevitably creating such a queue.

which is not really wide enough for 2-way traffic of people dragging
their life's possessions on wheels.

That's much the same issue as the conflicts in the STP "room of
columns". It's not just the International pax, it's their luggage too.

Something needs to be done about it.

Bring back the numbered [lettered A, B etc iirc] queues (as a very short
term thing). Or turn the 0-5 barriers off until the whole inner
concourse is barriered including access from the new ticket hall.

--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

On Jan 17, 8:19*am, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:23:48 on
Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Paul Corfield remarked:

The exit route will be off the south end of the concourse as expected.
The footbridge and escalators will be for those using the upper level
of the new concourse. I took a little walk round and I think there
will a large circulating area between the buffer stops and exit
gateline. *While I take your point about the potential for mixed flows
I wonder if the new way of working will be any worse than people
pouring off trains on to a small jam packed concourse with people
simultaneously heading on to trains.

One of the changes they've made in the last year or two (I can't say
exactly when) was to rope off a corridor across the old concourse in
front of the departure board. I suppose that directs people towards the
newish stairs down to the tube station, but it does reduce the number of
people filtering through the waiting crowds.

I didn't really spot that but then I was more looking for what's new
rather than what will disappear.

Although that begs the question of the waiting crowds. Years ago they
used to have queue "lanes" marked on the floor of the concourse and
people would more or less stand in lines waiting for their train to be
ready. Now it's just one chaotic scrum because no-one is told which
platform the train is leaving from until the very last minute.

I did notice people were congregating by a small destination display
near platform 8, which you can see as you come up from the tube,
rather than standing on the main concourse. I suppose there might be a
marginal sprinting advantage if your departure is from P6-8. I also
noticed that there was a fenced off area behind some of the buffer
stops - I assume this is related to some of the ticket gates being in
service (given comments from other posters in this thread).

It's been a long time since I used KX Mainline but can well recall the
old queue lanes. Always seemed a decent enough idea given the vast
numbers of people who wait for trains. The last time I caught a train
there I was caught up in a big delay with half the trains cancelled
which meant an absolute stampede once a platform was announced. I was
quite shocked at how aggressive people were at getting on the train
and then (almost) fighting for a seat (even in First Class). I can
understand why there might be problems in releasing the platform info
in such circumstances but there should not (IMO) be a delay in normal
circumstances.

Presumably they'll be trying to encourage people to wait on the new
concourse for the platform announcement, rather than filtering through
the barriers to the platform area and then waiting. That's the scheme at
StPancrasMML, assisted by a lack of platform information beyond the
barriers. Of course, what that does is create a long queue for the
barriers as soon as the platform is announced, with people increasingly
anxious that the train's going to leave without them.

I suspect you may be correct that that will be the tactic. However the
announcement of platforms / trains need to be in sufficient time to
allow people through the gates and then to reach their platform and
train. I can imagine they will have a riot on their hands if they hold
everyone back until 4 mins before departure when the train is on
platform 0. They seem to be able to manage Euston OK - I know there
are not automatic gates (for Virgin) but there is more often than not
(IMLE) a visual ticket inspection before you're allowed on the
platform. I know you can queue on the ramp but you still need a
proper time margin to get everyone through and for them to find their
carriage / seat.

I don't wish to debate the rights or wrongs of St Pancras. I would
merely comment that neither station is a green field site and
therefore there will inevitably be some compromises about how you deal
with flows when dealing with intensive train services and the related
floods of passengers.

The first set of escalators for the MML platforms should have been
turned through 90 degrees, to end near their ticket office. As it is,
the MML concourse is needlessly remote from that ticket office, the main
departure board (which seems a bit lost where it is at the moment) the
toilets, SPILL barriers and the Northern ticket hall for the tube. Even
if the rest of the design remained, that one small change would make
quite a difference.

I can see what you mean. I doubt anyone will want to contemplate such
changes to St Pancras given people have been "managing" with the
current layout for a number of years.

Kings Cross will be an interesting "experiment", because I can't think
of another big terminus where there's not a substantial concourse beyond
the buffers. I know they realise they have issues at Kings Cross with
persuading passengers toward the Piazza (doubtless vainly when it's
pouring with rain outside).

Indeed and we shall see what happens in due course when Network Rail /
East Coast / FCC have got used to how the public do / want to use the
place and how many complaints there are from people walking out into
April showers ;-) Let's hope all the ticket gates are reversible and
signage is switchable!

--
Paul C
via Google

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In article ,
(John Salmon) wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...

remarked:

One of the changes they've made in the last year or two (I can't say
exactly when) was to rope off a corridor across the old concourse in
front of the departure board. I suppose that directs people towards
the newish stairs down to the tube station, but it does reduce the
number of people filtering through the waiting crowds.

You have misunderstood the purpose of that corridor. If you look
carefully you can see that it was created because the route between the
halves of the train shed near the platform ends has been gated off so
there is otherwise no route to the barriers opposite platforms 0-4 from
the ends of the other platforms.

Hmm, why would you want to get to platforms 0-4 *from* platforms
5-8, without first standing around in the crowd waiting to see
which platform you want? Although that's a bit recursive, because
until the platform's announced you don't know you need to head for
p0-4.

I don't see much need for a "bypass" there for passengers catching
trains who happen to be near platform 8 when their number is
called, but it's heavily used by people leaving p0-4.

I agree with Roland's interpretation here - I mainly use that
'bypass' to exit from the lower-numbered platforms towards the Travel
Centre/newish underground entrance, and I think it was 'created' (or
'signed', to be more accurate) at around the same time as the 0-5
barriers became operational.

It allows cross-traffic which used to use the area across the platform ends
before a gate blocked the route.

Nitpick: the two sides are 0-5 and 6-8, not 0-4 and 5-8.

I couldn't recall the precise arrangement so I was trying not to be too
specific.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In article
,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

I did notice people were congregating by a small destination display
near platform 8, which you can see as you come up from the tube,
rather than standing on the main concourse. I suppose there might be a
marginal sprinting advantage if your departure is from P6-8. I also
noticed that there was a fenced off area behind some of the buffer
stops - I assume this is related to some of the ticket gates being in
service (given comments from other posters in this thread).

The greater sprinting advantage is if one's train is from 9-11.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Kings Cross exhibition
 

Has this finished already? I specifically looked for it this afternoon and could see no sign of any exhibition either near or in the travel centre? Where was/is it?

roy

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In message , at 14:49:04
on Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Roy Badami remarked:
Has this finished already?

That would be consistent with it only being there a week, but there's
nothing in the announcement to hint at such a short period. Or perhaps
it's weekdays only?
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

"Roy Badami" wrote in message
...
Has this finished already? I specifically looked for it this afternoon
and could see no sign of any exhibition either near or in the travel
centre? Where was/is it?

Rather ironic that you couldn't find it.

--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."

Kings Cross exhibition
 

On Jan 22, 8:49*pm, (Roy Badami) wrote:
Has this finished already? *I specifically looked for it this afternoon and could see no sign of any exhibition either near or in the travel centre? *Where was/is it?

As Roland has already said there is nothing in the press release to
indicate that the exhibition was only there for a short period of
time. In fact it rather suggests that a presence will be there until
the new ticket hall opens in 3 months time.

When I visited it was on the main KX concourse opposite one of the
entrances to the East Coast travel centre and in direct line of travel
if you walked in from the street beside WH Smith. It may just be a
weekday thing but that seems a bit pointless given there is a decent
amount of leisure travel through KX at weekends. It's those less
regular travellers who will need the info perhaps more than commuters
will, given the commuters will / should adapt to the new arrangements
very quickly.

--
Paul C
via Google

Kings Cross exhibition
 

In article , Roland Perry
writes

Will have to visit the exhibition I suppose.

Nothing there today, so maybe it was just a week long thing.

Couldn't see the new concourse from Platform 8, it was all boarded off.
It had looked like the outside was fenced off too (but too cold to go
out and check again). So I don't know where the glimpses of the new
concourse are to be had.

The circulation concourse between the buffers and the tick barriers was
bigger than I remembered, and I tried to get some photos. Someone
scurried out of nowhere to tell me off for using flash, and the others
have terrible camera shake. However it does show a rather big brick
pillar in the middle of the walkway, that I hadn't noticed befo

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/KGX_co...nstruction.jpg

For orientation, the picture looks east, and shows the entire width of
the eastern section of the future concourse (with barriers in gaps in
the wall with the scaffolding against it). The grey fence will be gone,
and a row of barriers between the new ticket hall and the western larger
section of the concourse will be behind the photographer.
--
Roland Perry

Kings Cross exhibition
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

The BBC visited a couple of days ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16813490

Tonight's Evening Standard has a shot looking towards the mezzanine floor.

Gives another idea of the scale of the whole thing, most of the pics I've
seen so far have been towards the office range...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...50m-rebuild.do

Paul S