Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On Jan 27, 12:44*am, Bruce wrote:
"Peter Masson" wrote:
wrote

So, what is Mail Rail's ultimate fate, then?

It deserves a new use.

A theme park. *An extreme ride in Central London.

With great views.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

82045 wrote:

On Jan 27, 12:44*am, Bruce wrote:
"Peter Masson" wrote:
wrote

So, what is Mail Rail's ultimate fate, then?

It deserves a new use.

A theme park. *An extreme ride in Central London.

With great views.


.... limited only by your imagination. ;-)

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On Jan 28, 7:07*pm, Bruce wrote:
" wrote:
On 28/01/2012 04:41, Bruce wrote:
*wrote:

On 27/01/2012 21:49, Bruce wrote:
* wrote:

Yes, I think that I have seen pictures of one in Ontario, in Canada..
That'd be cool to have that in Britain, but three words come to mind
that will undoubtedly ruin the whole concept.

Any guesses?

H&S. *;-)

It's almost a given, isn't it?

It is, and it's a shame, but you can imagine a very long list of
reasons why that could not possibly be allowed to happen here.

I'm sure I could. How much does that list need to correspond with
reality in H&S' case, though, I wonder?

It depends on whose definition of reality you adopt. *The paranoid H&S
people believe in their version of reality. *I'm not sure I do.

Some H&S intervention should be welcomed. *The HSE people have worked
wonders in the construction industry and have saved hundreds of lives.
I would not want to turn the clock back to the 1970s.

But it is in other areas that H&S appears to have gone mad, with the
lamination of all risk of any kind seemingly their objective. *Local
authorities seem particularly badly afflicted, with schools being a
particular bone of contention.

very little of the 'elf'n'safetygornmadinnit' comes from the HSE and
much of it would be seen as overkill by a properly trained H+S
practitioner or HSE inspector, but while people think a short course
makes them a H+S practitioner ...

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On 30/01/2012 11:03, Bruce wrote:
wrote:

On Jan 27, 12:44 am, wrote:
"Peter wrote:
wrote

So, what is Mail Rail's ultimate fate, then?

It deserves a new use.

A theme park. An extreme ride in Central London.

With great views.


... limited only by your imagination. ;-)

So, in other words, nobody's quite sure.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

Martyn H wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:07*pm, Bruce wrote:
Some H&S intervention should be welcomed. *The HSE people have worked
wonders in the construction industry and have saved hundreds of lives.
I would not want to turn the clock back to the 1970s.

But it is in other areas that H&S appears to have gone mad, with the
lamination of all risk of any kind seemingly their objective. *Local
authorities seem particularly badly afflicted, with schools being a
particular bone of contention.

very little of the 'elf'n'safetygornmadinnit' comes from the HSE and
much of it would be seen as overkill by a properly trained H+S
practitioner or HSE inspector, but while people think a short course
makes them a H+S practitioner ...


Indeed, the head of the HSE recently went public to explain that most
of the recent H&S nonsense was not the responsibility of HSE.

I have the highest regard for the professional staff of HSE who,
through their efforts, have saved hundreds of lives and thousands of
serious injuries in the construction industry in spite of some very
determined opposition within that industry. What they have achieved
is a change in culture, with younger managers putting safety first
whereas previously it was at best an afterthought, or seen as an
unnecessary added cost.

I can't speak for the effectiveness of HSE in other industries because
I don't have any direct experience of them. However, a close friend
works for HSE in Occupational Health and I am deeply impressed with
her professionalism.

As you say, the problem comes with people who are given responsibility
for H&S in organisations that don't provide adequate training. They
then feel they have to be proactive in order to justify their job
title ...

Another problem is that while H&S should be the responsibility of
everyone in an organisation, and organisations should ingrain that
attitude into all their staff, there is a tendency to leave it to the
people who have H&S-related job titles, and that gives them an
importance that they don't deserve. That situation pressurises the
people with H&S-related job titles to issue edicts because they feel
they have to justify their existence, and it is those edicts that lie
behind the well-publicised problems.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On Jan 31, 8:56*am, Bruce wrote:
Martyn H wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:07*pm, Bruce wrote:
Some H&S intervention should be welcomed. *The HSE people have worked
wonders in the construction industry and have saved hundreds of lives.
I would not want to turn the clock back to the 1970s.

But it is in other areas that H&S appears to have gone mad, with the
lamination of all risk of any kind seemingly their objective. *Local
authorities seem particularly badly afflicted, with schools being a
particular bone of contention.

very little of the 'elf'n'safetygornmadinnit' *comes from the HSE and
much of it would be seen as overkill by a properly trained H+S
practitioner or HSE inspector, but while people think a short course
makes them a H+S practitioner ...

Indeed, the head of the HSE recently went public to explain that most
of the recent H&S nonsense was not the responsibility of HSE.

I have the highest regard for the professional staff of HSE who,
through their efforts, have saved hundreds of lives and thousands of
serious injuries in the construction industry in spite of some very
determined opposition within that industry. *What they have achieved
is a change in culture, with younger managers putting safety first
whereas previously it was at best an afterthought, or seen as an
unnecessary added cost.

I can't speak for the effectiveness of HSE in other industries because
I don't have any direct experience of them. *However, a close friend
works for HSE in Occupational Health and I am deeply impressed with
her professionalism.

As you say, the problem comes with people who are given responsibility
for H&S in organisations that don't provide adequate training. *They
then feel they have to be proactive in order to justify their job
title ...

Another problem is that while H&S should be the responsibility of
everyone in an organisation, and organisations should ingrain that
attitude into all their staff, there is a tendency to leave it to the
people who have H&S-related job titles, and that gives them an
importance that they don't deserve. *That situation pressurises the
people with H&S-related job titles to issue edicts because they feel
they have to justify their existence, and it is those edicts that lie
behind the well-publicised problems.

Bruce, that's probably the best summing up of the H&S situation in
this country I've read in ages.

With regards to mail rail, the Post Office Museum extracted various
elements of early rolling stock a little while back (via a crane at
Mount Pleasant) for preservation. Looking forward to seeing them
cleaned up a bit.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

Garius wrote:
Bruce, that's probably the best summing up of the H&S situation in
this country I've read in ages.


Thanks. ;-)


With regards to mail rail, the Post Office Museum extracted various
elements of early rolling stock a little while back (via a crane at
Mount Pleasant) for preservation. Looking forward to seeing them
cleaned up a bit.


That's good to hear. Any idea where they might be going for display?

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:56:48 +0000, Bruce
wrote:

Martyn H wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:07 pm, Bruce wrote:
Some H&S intervention should be welcomed. The HSE people have worked
wonders in the construction industry and have saved hundreds of lives.

very little of the 'elf'n'safetygornmadinnit' comes from the HSE and
much of it would be seen as overkill by a properly trained H+S
practitioner or HSE inspector, but while people think a short course
makes them a H+S practitioner ...


Indeed, the head of the HSE recently went public to explain that most
of the recent H&S nonsense was not the responsibility of HSE.



As you say, the problem comes with people who are given responsibility
for H&S in organisations that don't provide adequate training. They
then feel they have to be proactive in order to justify their job
title ...

Another problem is that while H&S should be the responsibility of
everyone in an organisation, and organisations should ingrain that
attitude into all their staff,

For a time I was the H&S rep at work. What soon became obvious that a
small number of my colleagues would attempt to use H&S as excuse to
attempt to have an easy life and not do the job they were being paid
to do.
We operated a sensible policy in respect of lifting things that could
not repaired on site mainly refrigeration equipment. That meant that
in some cases the same object could be moved by one person if a sack
truck could be got to it and wheeled to a tail lift or it may need two
if access was awkward. It was interesting that it was always the same
people that always required assistance in the Morning and would wait
happily for an hour or so drinking tea while a colleague made their
way to them ,yet in the afternoon seemed to move anything and finish
early rather than wait and go home a bit late despite that being part
of the job providing it did not happen every day.
Time again I warned them that if it genuinely needed two then doing it
by themselves would not look good in any injury claim as they had
broken procedures.
Like herding cats it was.

Yes, "Health and Safety" and "Security" are two blanket reasons for not
permitting something. Both can be perfectly valid, but they are also open to
abuse: some people use them to mean "we can't be bothered to do it so we'll
cite one of these excuses". When I'm faced with H&S or Security reasons, I
challenge the person to describe *exactly* what the issues are and whether
the person is applying the *minimum* restriction that is necessary.

I lost all faith in H&S when our H&S rep at work sanctioned a temporary
scaffolding tower 60 feet high and about 10 feet square to be erected in our
two-storey computer hall so a fluorescent tube could be replaced, when the
tower was placed a couple of feet from a solid door (no window in it) that
was a signed fire exit. When one of us opened the door and it hit the tower,
we phoned the H&S guy who came to look and said "yes, that's OK". He didn't
even demand a warning sign or temporary closure of the door and signing of
an alternate route (there was another door fairly close by).

Lax H&S when restrictions are clearly needed gives H&S a bad name just as
much as over-zealous restrictions when none is needed.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

In message , Bruce
writes

That's good to hear. Any idea where they might be going for display?

I'm pretty sure its the BPMA museum store at Debden (which is only open
for about one day a month, and I'd check in advance that the rolling
stock is actually going to be on display):

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/page/museum
--
Paul Terry

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

Paul Terry wrote:

In message , Bruce
writes

That's good to hear. Any idea where they might be going for display?

I'm pretty sure its the BPMA museum store at Debden (which is only open
for about one day a month, and I'd check in advance that the rolling
stock is actually going to be on display):

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/page/museum


Thanks!

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 12:50:34 +0000
Bruce wrote:
It is the ingrained duty of the British working class (oxymoron
alert!) to do as little work as possible, and to use every available
excuse - and then some - to reduce the amount of work still further.

Which is why the Polish have taken their jobs. Tough.

B2003

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On 2012\02\01 12:48, Bruce wrote:
Paul wrote:

In , Bruce
writes

That's good to hear. Any idea where they might be going for display?

I'm pretty sure its the BPMA museum store at Debden (which is only open
for about one day a month, and I'd check in advance that the rolling
stock is actually going to be on display):

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/page/museum


Thanks!


It should really be in London's Transport Museum - freight is transport too.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On 01/02/2012 14:24, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\02\01 12:48, Bruce wrote:
Paul wrote:

In , Bruce
writes

That's good to hear. Any idea where they might be going for display?

I'm pretty sure its the BPMA museum store at Debden (which is only open
for about one day a month, and I'd check in advance that the rolling
stock is actually going to be on display):

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/page/museum


Thanks!


It should really be in London's Transport Museum - freight is transport
too.

Except it was never operated by London Transport or it's predecessors or
successors

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:50:26 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 01/02/2012 14:24, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\02\01 12:48, Bruce wrote:
Paul wrote:

In , Bruce
writes

That's good to hear. Any idea where they might be going for display?

I'm pretty sure its the BPMA museum store at Debden (which is only open
for about one day a month, and I'd check in advance that the rolling
stock is actually going to be on display):

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/page/museum


Thanks!


It should really be in London's Transport Museum - freight is transport
too.

Except it was never operated by London Transport or it's predecessors or
successors

And the museum is the London Transport Museum not London's transport
museum.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On 01/02/2012 18:36, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:50:26 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 01/02/2012 14:24, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\02\01 12:48, Bruce wrote:
Paul wrote:

In , Bruce
writes

That's good to hear. Any idea where they might be going for display?

I'm pretty sure its the BPMA museum store at Debden (which is only open
for about one day a month, and I'd check in advance that the rolling
stock is actually going to be on display):

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/page/museum


Thanks!


It should really be in London's Transport Museum - freight is transport
too.

Except it was never operated by London Transport or it's predecessors or
successors

And the museum is the London Transport Museum not London's transport
museum.

My point.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On Feb 1, 6:36*pm, Charles Ellson wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:50:26 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 01/02/2012 14:24, Basil Jet wrote:
[...]
It should really be in London's Transport Museum - freight is transport
too.

Except it was never operated by London Transport or it's predecessors or
successors

And the museum is the London Transport Museum not London's transport
museum.

Though it *was* called "London's Transport Museum" for a period from
2002 to 2007, reverting back to "London Transport Museum" when it re-
opened after a redesign.

From the 'LT Museum - about us' webpage:

http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/about-us/a-brief-history
"In 2002, London Transport became Transport for London and, to reflect
this, the Museum changed its name to London's Transport Museum."

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On 01/02/2012 10:35, Bruce wrote:
wrote:
Bruce, that's probably the best summing up of the H&S situation in
this country I've read in ages.


Thanks. ;-)


With regards to mail rail, the Post Office Museum extracted various
elements of early rolling stock a little while back (via a crane at
Mount Pleasant) for preservation. Looking forward to seeing them
cleaned up a bit.


That's good to hear. Any idea where they might be going for display?

But what is going to happen with Mail Rail itself? Any prospect of
bringing it back into service, considering London traffic and emission
zones?

Actually, how long is the Mt. Pleasant sorting going to continue operating?

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On 01/02/2012 14:24, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\02\01 12:48, Bruce wrote:
Paul wrote:

In , Bruce
writes

That's good to hear. Any idea where they might be going for display?

I'm pretty sure its the BPMA museum store at Debden (which is only open
for about one day a month, and I'd check in advance that the rolling
stock is actually going to be on display):

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/page/museum


Thanks!


It should really be in London's Transport Museum - freight is transport
too.

I know that the Metropolitan line used to carry freight eons ago.

Are they considering this as a prospect? Other cities in Europe use
their tram networks for freight, such as Amsterdam and Dresden.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On 01/02/2012 12:10, Mortimer wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:56:48 +0000, Bruce
wrote:

Martyn H wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:07 pm, Bruce wrote:
Some H&S intervention should be welcomed. The HSE people have worked
wonders in the construction industry and have saved hundreds of lives.

very little of the 'elf'n'safetygornmadinnit' comes from the HSE and
much of it would be seen as overkill by a properly trained H+S
practitioner or HSE inspector, but while people think a short course
makes them a H+S practitioner ...


Indeed, the head of the HSE recently went public to explain that most
of the recent H&S nonsense was not the responsibility of HSE.



As you say, the problem comes with people who are given responsibility
for H&S in organisations that don't provide adequate training. They
then feel they have to be proactive in order to justify their job
title ...

Another problem is that while H&S should be the responsibility of
everyone in an organisation, and organisations should ingrain that
attitude into all their staff,

For a time I was the H&S rep at work. What soon became obvious that a
small number of my colleagues would attempt to use H&S as excuse to
attempt to have an easy life and not do the job they were being paid
to do.
We operated a sensible policy in respect of lifting things that could
not repaired on site mainly refrigeration equipment. That meant that
in some cases the same object could be moved by one person if a sack
truck could be got to it and wheeled to a tail lift or it may need two
if access was awkward. It was interesting that it was always the same
people that always required assistance in the Morning and would wait
happily for an hour or so drinking tea while a colleague made their
way to them ,yet in the afternoon seemed to move anything and finish
early rather than wait and go home a bit late despite that being part
of the job providing it did not happen every day.
Time again I warned them that if it genuinely needed two then doing it
by themselves would not look good in any injury claim as they had
broken procedures.
Like herding cats it was.

Yes, "Health and Safety" and "Security" are two blanket reasons for not
permitting something. Both can be perfectly valid, but they are also
open to abuse: some people use them to mean "we can't be bothered to do
it so we'll cite one of these excuses". When I'm faced with H&S or
Security reasons, I challenge the person to describe *exactly* what the
issues are and whether the person is applying the *minimum* restriction
that is necessary.

I lost all faith in H&S when our H&S rep at work sanctioned a temporary
scaffolding tower 60 feet high and about 10 feet square to be erected in
our two-storey computer hall so a fluorescent tube could be replaced,
when the tower was placed a couple of feet from a solid door (no window
in it) that was a signed fire exit. When one of us opened the door and
it hit the tower, we phoned the H&S guy who came to look and said "yes,
that's OK". He didn't even demand a warning sign or temporary closure of
the door and signing of an alternate route (there was another door
fairly close by).

Lax H&S when restrictions are clearly needed gives H&S a bad name just
as much as over-zealous restrictions when none is needed.

I've heard of one gas when the gasman came to read a meter, although it
was mounted high up and required a ladder. When the resident of the
house offered to get a small step ladder, the gasman refused on grounds
that it was unsafe and that he needed proper training.

In reality, however, it was just a simple stepladder.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On Feb 1, 12:24*pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Bruce
writes

That's good to hear. *Any idea where they might be going for display?

I'm pretty sure its the BPMA museum store at Debden (which is only open
for about one day a month, and I'd check in advance that the rolling
stock is actually going to be on display):

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/page/museum
--
Paul Terry

Yup - its the BPMA. They sent me some lovely photos of the removal
(and stuck even more up on Flikr). Think they took out a couple of
1930s engines and the last original mail coach that was down there.

Post Office Railway - mothballed?
 

On Jan 25, 5:29*pm, "Paul Rigg" wrote:
Will it breech the tunnels?

There was certainly a comment a few years ago that crossrail would be a lot
more expensive if it didnt breach the tunnels . *Presumably they are going
ahead with the version that does.
Why does it need to breach the Post Office Railway? They follow more
or less the same route, and the Post Office Railway keeps mainly to
the north of Oxford Street - as that's where the postal offices are/
were - while Crossrail mainly keeps to the south (think of where the
stations are).

Even when Crossrail deviates at farringdon, the Post Office Railway
deviates further to the north to reach mount pleasant.