Charles Ellson wrote:

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 22:13:50 +0000, Bruce
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:

On 2012\02\07 19:41, Star Fury wrote:

I wonder what the source of the authoritative time for the UK Railway
actually is, now?

At least one railway company gave its staff Eurochron radio controlled
watches which got their signal from Mainflingen, Germany.


Surely from the atomic clocks at Anthorn, Cumbria? The UK's radio
time signal was formerly transmitted from the BBC Long Wave
transmitter near Rugby, but moved to Anthorn in 2007.

MSF was formerly transmitted from the GPO/PO/BT site at Rugby from
1926-2007.
The BBC transmitter is at Droitwich (with two other LW transmitters at
Burghead and Westerglen) and carries an embedded time signal used by
electricity companies to control tariff-switching and by the
Environment Agency:-
http://www.alancordwell.co.uk/radio/teleswitch1.html
http://79.171.36.154/rts/tech_aspects.asp


Thanks, Charles. For fully half a century I believed that the BBC
Home Service, later Radio 4, was transmitted from Rugby. ;-)

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 09:50:45 +0000
Bruce wrote:
Thanks, a personal email also confirmed that the German signal has a
range in excess of 2000 km. Remarkable.

Not really - its around 60Khz which means it travels as a ground wave and
will go a long way without requiring huge amounts of power. God knows how
the physics works but its a very useful effect.

B2003

In message , at 09:58:40 on
Wed, 8 Feb 2012, Bruce remarked:
For fully half a century I believed that the BBC
Home Service, later Radio 4, was transmitted from Rugby. ;-)

The Home Service was broadcast regionally on Medium Wave, eg in London
from Brookmans Park (and also in the Midlands from Droitwich).

Long Wave at Droitwich was the Light Programme (later Radio 2).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:03:16 on Wed, 8 Feb
2012, d remarked:
God knows how the physics works

Indeed he does.
--
Roland Perry

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 22:13:50 +0000, Bruce
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:

On 2012\02\07 19:41, Star Fury wrote:

I wonder what the source of the authoritative time for the UK Railway
actually is, now?

At least one railway company gave its staff Eurochron radio controlled
watches which got their signal from Mainflingen, Germany.


Surely from the atomic clocks at Anthorn, Cumbria? The UK's radio
time signal was formerly transmitted from the BBC Long Wave
transmitter near Rugby, but moved to Anthorn in 2007.

MSF was formerly transmitted from the GPO/PO/BT site at Rugby from
1926-2007.
The BBC transmitter is at Droitwich (with two other LW transmitters at
Burghead and Westerglen) and carries an embedded time signal used by
electricity companies to control tariff-switching and by the
Environment Agency:-
http://www.alancordwell.co.uk/radio/teleswitch1.html
http://79.171.36.154/rts/tech_aspects.asp

Does anyone know how this will be managed when the LW signal ends? Cannot
remember exactly when, but 2015 or 2016 is ringing large bells in my mind.
Apparently the transmitter kit is pretty much life expired.

James

On 2012\02\08 09:50, Bruce wrote:
Basil wrote:
On 2012\02\07 22:13, Bruce wrote:
Basil wrote:

On 2012\02\07 19:41, Star Fury wrote:

I wonder what the source of the authoritative time for the UK Railway
actually is, now?

At least one railway company gave its staff Eurochron radio controlled
watches which got their signal from Mainflingen, Germany.


Surely from the atomic clocks at Anthorn, Cumbria?

I don't think Eurochron (Junghans) ever produced a watch which received
the British time signal, BICBW. The Mainflingen signal is easily
receivable in most if not all of England (as opposed to Scotland).


Thanks, a personal email also confirmed that the German signal has a
range in excess of 2000 km. Remarkable.

It varies according to the weather and time of day.
http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_man.../en/qw5061.pdf contains a map
showing the reception range of Casio watches, although I couldn't get my
Casio to receive the Mainflingen signal in Exeter. I imagine Eurochron
watches have a similar range (for the Mainflingen signal only).

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 19:32:28 -0000, "James Heaton"
wrote:


"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 22:13:50 +0000, Bruce
wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:

On 2012\02\07 19:41, Star Fury wrote:

I wonder what the source of the authoritative time for the UK Railway
actually is, now?

At least one railway company gave its staff Eurochron radio controlled
watches which got their signal from Mainflingen, Germany.


Surely from the atomic clocks at Anthorn, Cumbria? The UK's radio
time signal was formerly transmitted from the BBC Long Wave
transmitter near Rugby, but moved to Anthorn in 2007.

MSF was formerly transmitted from the GPO/PO/BT site at Rugby from
1926-2007.
The BBC transmitter is at Droitwich (with two other LW transmitters at
Burghead and Westerglen) and carries an embedded time signal used by
electricity companies to control tariff-switching and by the
Environment Agency:-
http://www.alancordwell.co.uk/radio/teleswitch1.html
http://79.171.36.154/rts/tech_aspects.asp

Does anyone know how this will be managed when the LW signal ends? Cannot
remember exactly when, but 2015 or 2016 is ringing large bells in my mind.
Apparently the transmitter kit is pretty much life expired.

AFAICT the LW service will be ending around the same time that nuclear
electricity becomes too cheap to meter. Newspapers seem to have
announcing the end since at least 2004 (Daily Torygraph) but the
official version seems to be no more definite than e.g. "There will
also be no reinvestment in long wave, which will lead to the end of
Radio 4 on LW in the long term."
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15165926]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:42:04 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2012\02\08 09:50, Bruce wrote:
Basil wrote:
On 2012\02\07 22:13, Bruce wrote:
Basil wrote:

On 2012\02\07 19:41, Star Fury wrote:

I wonder what the source of the authoritative time for the UK Railway
actually is, now?

At least one railway company gave its staff Eurochron radio controlled
watches which got their signal from Mainflingen, Germany.


Surely from the atomic clocks at Anthorn, Cumbria?

I don't think Eurochron (Junghans) ever produced a watch which received
the British time signal, BICBW.

They make at least one wall clock (364/7003.00) which uses DCF and MSF
but Google chucks up some remnants of currently unreachable forum
posts suggesting that some of their wris****ches already had bother
with confusion between German and US transmitters (presumably where
neither had an effectively dominant signal) so MSF might have made
things even worse.

The Mainflingen signal is easily
receivable in most if not all of England (as opposed to Scotland).


Thanks, a personal email also confirmed that the German signal has a
range in excess of 2000 km. Remarkable.

It varies according to the weather and time of day.
http://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_man.../en/qw5061.pdf contains a map
showing the reception range of Casio watches, although I couldn't get my
Casio to receive the Mainflingen signal in Exeter. I imagine Eurochron
watches have a similar range (for the Mainflingen signal only).

On 2012\02\08 23:05, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:42:04 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2012\02\08 09:50, Bruce wrote:
Basil wrote:
On 2012\02\07 22:13, Bruce wrote:
Basil wrote:

On 2012\02\07 19:41, Star Fury wrote:

I wonder what the source of the authoritative time for the UK Railway
actually is, now?

At least one railway company gave its staff Eurochron radio controlled
watches which got their signal from Mainflingen, Germany.


Surely from the atomic clocks at Anthorn, Cumbria?

I don't think Eurochron (Junghans) ever produced a watch which received
the British time signal, BICBW.

They make at least one wall clock (364/7003.00) which uses DCF and MSF
but Google chucks up some remnants of currently unreachable forum
posts suggesting that some of their wris****ches already had bother
with confusion between German and US transmitters (presumably where
neither had an effectively dominant signal) so MSF might have made
things even worse.

You seem to be suggesting that Eurochron choosing to make a watch which
received the British time signal would have damaged the reception
abilities of their existing products.

For the record, the USA and British broadcasts are the ones that can
interfere with each other under rare weather conditions if you're in
Newfoundland or thereabouts. They are both on 60 kHz, but use different
encoding sequences so interference prevents comprehension of either
signal. The German signal is on 77.5kHz.

On 2012\02\09 00:04, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\02\08 23:05, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:42:04 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2012\02\08 09:50, Bruce wrote:
Basil wrote:
On 2012\02\07 22:13, Bruce wrote:
Basil wrote:

On 2012\02\07 19:41, Star Fury wrote:

I wonder what the source of the authoritative time for the UK
Railway
actually is, now?

At least one railway company gave its staff Eurochron radio
controlled
watches which got their signal from Mainflingen, Germany.


Surely from the atomic clocks at Anthorn, Cumbria?

I don't think Eurochron (Junghans) ever produced a watch which
received
the British time signal, BICBW.

They make at least one wall clock (364/7003.00) which uses DCF and MSF
but Google chucks up some remnants of currently unreachable forum
posts suggesting that some of their wris****ches already had bother
with confusion between German and US transmitters (presumably where
neither had an effectively dominant signal) so MSF might have made
things even worse.

You seem to be suggesting that Eurochron choosing to make a watch which
received the British time signal would have damaged the reception
abilities of their existing products.

For the record, the USA and British broadcasts are the ones that can
interfere with each other under rare weather conditions if you're in
Newfoundland or thereabouts. They are both on 60 kHz, but use different
encoding sequences so interference prevents comprehension of either
signal.

I should have added that the problem occurs regardless of whether the
timepiece in question is designed to decode the American broadcasts, the
British broadcasts or both.

The German signal is on 77.5kHz.