"Peter Smyth" wrote in message ...

"mark townend" wrote in message
...

Anyway purely for my own interest I've drawn up some of these ideas,
and any constructive comments from the group would be most welcome!

See my proposals here -

http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

I think you'll find the that southern ends of the centre tracks at Aldgate
are blocked by pillars that support the station concourse above.

On Mar 9, 11:46*am, mark townend wrote:
On Mar 8, 5:54*pm, "Railsigns.co.uk" wrote:

On Thursday, 8 March 2012 15:56:21 UTC, Ian *wrote:
"mark townend" wrote in message
....
On Mar 8, 3:23 pm, "Ian" wrote:

Better. Try again. Hint: remember a shirt has ONE Collar and TWO Sleeves.

Revision 2
http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

I suspect it may be necessary to do Revision 3..... )
--

Are there *any* words in the English language where a double "C" makes an "S" (as opposed to a "K" or "X") sound? I doubt there is.

Was completely blind to this one - I think I may have accidentally
clicked ignore in spell-checking.

One other thing: Use of the ampersand (&) should be confined to titles and headings, etc. In normal text, you should always write the word "and" out in full.

Ampersands removed as suggested.

http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

Your H&C and Circle Line descent from Edgware Road to Baker Street may
be impractical. The existing route already descends steeply.

The better solution would be to simplify the District Line. If a
future Chelney Line could replace the Wimbledon Branch, operation of
the Western end of the Circle becomes much simpler. A few District
Line Trains might run to Ken High Street.

Also, be aware that TfL are real touchy about folks utilizing "their"
roundel. IMO, the roundel should be in the public domain. It has
been around since the London General Omnibus Company.

On Mar 9, 7:01*am, zin92 wrote:
On Mar 8, 6:24*pm, "Peter Smyth" wrote:









"mark townend" *wrote in message

...

Anyway purely for my own interest I've drawn up some of these ideas,
and any constructive comments from the group would be most welcome!

See my proposals here -

http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

The main problem seems to be that any capacity you gain by grade separating
Baker Street Jn, would be lost by the new conflicts at Moorgate, where all
terminating Mets have to cross over in front of westbound Circle/H&Cs.

Peter Smyth

Great diagram!

One comment: I initially found the Aldgate diagram hard to comprehend
not being familiar with the junction names and north not being top of
the map. Would the diagram be easier to understand if the top of the
diagram was north?

And two questions:

1. What are the benefits of the changes at Paddington?

This is to split East and Westbound passengers between different
platforms, hence relieving crowding issues. Paddington Suburban would
lose one terminal platform which may only be possible following
Crossrail.

2. Could you not also implement grade separation at Moorgate to avoid
conflicts? Eg a new tunnel connecting platform 2 to the lines to
platforms 3 and 4 at Barbican?

See reply to Alistair Bell.

--
Mark

On Mar 7, 8:36*pm, mark townend wrote:

See my proposals here -

http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

BTW for reference, I used the excellent track diagram: 'Tube,
Underground, Overground & DLR map of London, UK' available free he

http://carto.metro.free.fr/en/

I remembered this being referred to before on uk.railway and recommend
it as very interesting (if you're into that sort of thing!)

--
Mark

On Mar 9, 12:08*pm, 77002 wrote:
On Mar 9, 11:46*am, mark townend wrote:







On Mar 8, 5:54*pm, "Railsigns.co.uk" wrote:

On Thursday, 8 March 2012 15:56:21 UTC, Ian *wrote:
"mark townend" wrote in message
...
On Mar 8, 3:23 pm, "Ian" wrote:

Better. Try again. Hint: remember a shirt has ONE Collar and TWO Sleeves.

Revision 2
http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

I suspect it may be necessary to do Revision 3..... )
--

Are there *any* words in the English language where a double "C" makes an "S" (as opposed to a "K" or "X") sound? I doubt there is.

Was completely blind to this one - I think I may have accidentally
clicked ignore in spell-checking.

One other thing: Use of the ampersand (&) should be confined to titles and headings, etc. In normal text, you should always write the word "and" out in full.

Ampersands removed as suggested.

http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

Your H&C and Circle Line descent from Edgware Road to Baker Street may
be impractical. *The existing route already descends steeply.

Alternatively, an overpass over Baker Street Junction, constructed in
a shallow cut & cover, possibly with the road above raised marginally
to accomodate if neccessary.

The better solution would be to simplify the District Line. *If a
future Chelney Line could replace the Wimbledon Branch, operation of
the Western end of the Circle becomes much simpler. *A few District
Line Trains might run to Ken High Street.

The conflict at Baker Street wouldn't go away though. Districts
removed from Edgware Road might allow enhancements of H&C/Circle
frequency!

Also, be aware that TfL are real touchy about folks utilizing "their"
roundel. *IMO, the roundel should be in the public domain. *It has
been around since the London General Omnibus Company.

Well i'm not making any money out of this. If they ask me to remove it
I will.

--
Mark

mark townend wrote on 09 March 2012 17:08:32 ...
On Mar 9, 12:08 pm, wrote:
On Mar 9, 11:46 am, mark wrote:

On Mar 8, 5:54 pm, wrote:

On Thursday, 8 March 2012 15:56:21 UTC, Ian wrote:
"mark wrote in message
...
On Mar 8, 3:23 pm, wrote:

Better. Try again. Hint: remember a shirt has ONE Collar and TWO Sleeves.

Revision 2
http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

I suspect it may be necessary to do Revision 3..... )
--

Are there *any* words in the English language where a double "C" makes an "S" (as opposed to a "K" or "X") sound? I doubt there is.

Was completely blind to this one - I think I may have accidentally
clicked ignore in spell-checking.

One other thing: Use of the ampersand (&) should be confined to titles and headings, etc. In normal text, you should always write the word "and" out in full.

Ampersands removed as suggested.

http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

Your H&C and Circle Line descent from Edgware Road to Baker Street may
be impractical. The existing route already descends steeply.

Alternatively, an overpass over Baker Street Junction, constructed in
a shallow cut& cover, possibly with the road above raised marginally
to accomodate if neccessary.

Baker Street Junction is only just below the road surface, so any
overpass would be at street level, and the road would need far more than
"marginal" elevation.

I'm not convinced that the descent from Edgware Road is all that steep.
The ground above it doesn't seem to fall very much. I reckon that
people think it's steep because of the severe eastbound speed
restriction, but that's because the head of platform 5 is so close to
the junction. Compared to Blackfriars to City Thameslink, it looks
almost flat.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

In article
mark townend wrote:
http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

The real solution is to extend the Metropolitan, near to/over/under the
Bakerloo. Terminate at Oxford Circus for now, later at Embankment,
later a lot further.

(Joe keane) wrote on 09 March 2012 23:20:43 ...
In
mark wrote:
http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

The real solution is to extend the Metropolitan, near to/over/under the
Bakerloo. Terminate at Oxford Circus for now, later at Embankment,
later a lot further.

I doubt if the thousands of Met passengers who commute to and from the
City would regard that as a solution. What problem are you trying to
solve with your Crossrail 3?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On 2012\03\09 23:20, Joe keane wrote:
In
mark wrote:
http://www.townend.me/files/circlenorth.pdf

The real solution is to extend the Metropolitan, near to/over/under the
Bakerloo. Terminate at Oxford Circus for now, later at Embankment,
later a lot further.

Wouldn't it be better and possibly profitable to extend all of the
Crossrail Paddington terminators to North Pole, then on a new track to
near Harlesden Station , then on the freight line up to Neasden where
they could take over the entire Chiltern service (both Amersham and High
Wycombe), allowing the line from Neasden to Marylebone including the
Marylebone Station site to be sold off and also allowing the Met to
terminate at Baker Street? Oh hang on, that would require the Chiltern
Lines to be electrified...

"Basil Jet" wrote

Wouldn't it be better and possibly profitable to extend all of the
Crossrail Paddington terminators to North Pole, then on a new track to
near Harlesden Station , then on the freight line up to Neasden where they
could take over the entire Chiltern service (both Amersham and High
Wycombe), allowing the line from Neasden to Marylebone including the
Marylebone Station site to be sold off and also allowing the Met to
terminate at Baker Street? Oh hang on, that would require the Chiltern
Lines to be electrified...

An early iteration of Crossrail was indeed to run it via the Acton Wells -
Neasden Junction line and then the Chiltern Met Line, taking over the
Chiltern Aylesbury via Amersham service as well as the Met Chiltern and
Amersham service. The Met would have been left with Watford and Uxbridge.
Cost benefit analysis showed that there was no adequate business case.

Peter