Oyster penalties again
 

In message , at 08:42:20 on Fri, 13 Apr
2012, d remarked:
It may also be a belt-and-braces way to be able to ask to see the card,
because it's their card so they are entitled to see it (irrespective of
the general byelaws saying you have to make it available for
inspection).

On a related subject - how much legal powers do revenue inspectors have?
If someone just tells them to eff off is there much they can do about it
apart from call the BTP?

National Conditions of Carriage

22. You must show and, if asked to do so by the staff of a Train Company
or its agent, hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any relevant
Railcard, photocard or other form of personal identification in
accordance with Condition 15.

If you don't, the worst which happens is being treated as if you don't
have a ticket - which could vary from a Penalty Fare to a prosecution
for fare evasion, depending on the circumstances.

Reinforced by Railway Byelaws 17 & 18:

"A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of
validity when asked to do so by an authorised person."

And byelaw 24.

"Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in
breach of any of these Byelaws shall leave the railway immediately if
asked to do so by an authorised person."

"Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in
breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when
asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway
by an authorised person using reasonable force. This right of removal is
in addition to the imposition of any penalty for the breach of these
Byelaws."
--
Roland Perry

Oyster penalties again
 

In message , at 05:21:13
on Fri, 13 Apr 2012, remarked:
So, it looks like you have two unresolved journeys, where the
touch-out was missed. When it's busy at Kings Cross St Pancras,
especially the old ticket hall, it seems to me to again quite easy to
inadvertently "follow through" with your own touch-out not
registering.

And at Westminster off peak with its enormous gateline? Seems odd. She
doesn't recall too much detail because of the following day's drama.

Like I said yesterday, the gates there also seem susceptible to
"following through".

Too late now but I have advised my wife to follow my technique. I lay the
car down on the pad and wait till I see the balance.

I prefer to wait for the gates to close after the person in front, then
touch.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster penalties again
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
05:21:13 on Fri, 13 Apr 2012, remarked:
So, it looks like you have two unresolved journeys, where the
touch-out was missed. When it's busy at Kings Cross St Pancras,
especially the old ticket hall, it seems to me to again quite easy to
inadvertently "follow through" with your own touch-out not
registering.

And at Westminster off peak with its enormous gateline? Seems odd. She
doesn't recall too much detail because of the following day's drama.

Like I said yesterday, the gates there also seem susceptible to
"following through".

Too late now but I have advised my wife to follow my technique. I lay the
car down on the pad and wait till I see the balance.

I prefer to wait for the gates to close after the person in front,
then touch.

If you get the balance displayed as expected your card has been read. Some
gates are designed to stay open between users to speed flows.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Oyster penalties again
 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:45:51 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
"Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in
breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when
asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway
by an authorised person using reasonable force. This right of removal is

So they can physically throw you off? Didn't know that. That'll be why
there's always a big one in the pair.

B2003

Oyster penalties again
 

In message , at 06:13:41
on Fri, 13 Apr 2012, remarked:
I prefer to wait for the gates to close after the person in front,
then touch.

If you get the balance displayed as expected your card has been read.

I have a very low success rate in looking for the tiny display for the
second and a half the balance shows. They might even be in different
places on different gates - I don't know why I find it so difficult!

Some gates are designed to stay open between users to speed flows.

And I'm happy for them to do that for people with paper tickets and
travel/season cards. But I'm thrice bitten by PAYG and they have to
accept I'm going to wait until I see the gates close, then re-open.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster penalties again
 

In message , at 11:13:48 on Fri, 13 Apr
2012, d remarked:
"Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in
breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when
asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway
by an authorised person using reasonable force. This right of removal is

So they can physically throw you off? Didn't know that. That'll be why
there's always a big one in the pair.

Or a "big man" from the audience.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster penalties again
 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:33:02 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:13:48 on Fri, 13 Apr
2012, d remarked:
"Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in
breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when
asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway
by an authorised person using reasonable force. This right of removal is

So they can physically throw you off? Didn't know that. That'll be why
there's always a big one in the pair.

Or a "big man" from the audience.

Are you suggesting they have sleeper agents hidden amongst the pax ready
to spring into action? :)

B2003

Oyster penalties again
 

In article , d ()
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:33:02 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:13:48 on Fri, 13 Apr
2012, d remarked:
"Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in
breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when
asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway
by an authorised person using reasonable force. This right of removal
is

So they can physically throw you off? Didn't know that. That'll be why
there's always a big one in the pair.

Or a "big man" from the audience.

Are you suggesting they have sleeper agents hidden amongst the pax ready
to spring into action? :)

You mean you didn't know?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Oyster penalties again
 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:13:48 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:45:51 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
"Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in
breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when
asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway
by an authorised person using reasonable force. This right of removal is

So they can physically throw you off? Didn't know that. That'll be why
there's always a big one in the pair.

Can they do the opposite? I.e. hold you back until the police arrive if you
want to leave without showing a valid ticket or refuse to state your name
and address.

--
jhk

Oyster penalties again
 

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:20:18 +0200
Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:13:48 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:45:51 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
"Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in
breach of any of these Byelaws and who fails to desist or leave when
asked to do so by an authorised person may be removed from the railway
by an authorised person using reasonable force. This right of removal is

So they can physically throw you off? Didn't know that. That'll be why
there's always a big one in the pair.

Can they do the opposite? I.e. hold you back until the police arrive if you
want to leave without showing a valid ticket or refuse to state your name
and address.

Good question. Don't supermarket security guards have that power with
shoplifters? And after all, blinged up security guards is all they really are
when it comes down to it.

B2003