I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.
Oyster helpdesk staff took a few days to agree that I had been
overcharged and agreed an ex gratia payment for the inconvenience.
The payments were delayed for an extra day as they needed "approval".
Automatic overpayment detection does not recognise the situation.

OTOH, there are discrepancies between the Single Fare Finder and Oyster.
(Oyster charges less.)
Moorgate - Queens Road Peckham peak shows as 3.80 but charges 3.70.
It seems there were recent changes to charges between LU & NR.
The Single Fare Finder has not been updated to reflect those changes.
--
Walter Briscoe

On Apr 13, 12:46*pm, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.
Oyster helpdesk staff took a few days to agree that I had been
overcharged and agreed an ex gratia payment for the inconvenience.
The payments were delayed for an extra day as they needed "approval".
Automatic overpayment detection does not recognise the situation.

OTOH, there are discrepancies between the Single Fare Finder and Oyster.
(Oyster charges less.)
Moorgate - Queens Road Peckham peak shows as 3.80 but charges 3.70.
It seems there were recent changes to charges between LU & NR.
The Single Fare Finder has not been updated to reflect those changes.
--
Walter Briscoe

Re. your refund - this would have been purely goodwill. Oyster has
never been able to charge in the way that you think it should.

I hope this was made clear to you when the refund was agreed.

Regards,

Jack

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 02:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Jack wrote:

On Apr 13, 12:46*pm, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.
Oyster helpdesk staff took a few days to agree that I had been
overcharged and agreed an ex gratia payment for the inconvenience.
The payments were delayed for an extra day as they needed "approval".
Automatic overpayment detection does not recognise the situation.

OTOH, there are discrepancies between the Single Fare Finder and Oyster.
(Oyster charges less.)
Moorgate - Queens Road Peckham peak shows as 3.80 but charges 3.70.
It seems there were recent changes to charges between LU & NR.
The Single Fare Finder has not been updated to reflect those changes.
--
Walter Briscoe

Re. your refund - this would have been purely goodwill. Oyster has
never been able to charge in the way that you think it should.

I hope this was made clear to you when the refund was agreed.

Zone 1-4 + an extra single journey is how I assumed the worked too, but I'm
apparently mistaken. Does TfL explain exactly how it works anywhere?

This page, http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14837.aspx , states

"Oyster will work out the cheapest combination of fares for all your
journeys in one day."

A zone 1-4 travelcard plus a single oyster fare would have been the
cheapest alternative.

--
jhk

In message , at 12:58:22 on
Mon, 16 Apr 2012, Jarle H Knudsen remarked:
I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.

....

Zone 1-4 + an extra single journey is how I assumed the worked too, but I'm
apparently mistaken. Does TfL explain exactly how it works anywhere?

This page, http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14837.aspx , states

"Oyster will work out the cheapest combination of fares for all your
journeys in one day."

A zone 1-4 travelcard plus a single oyster fare would have been the
cheapest alternative.

The Z1-4 cap is £10.60, plus £1.40 is £12.00

But the Z1-5 cap is £15.80 - so how does £14.40 arise? (Other than being
£15.80 minus £1.40, which makes no sense).
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:36:32 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 12:58:22 on
Mon, 16 Apr 2012, Jarle H Knudsen remarked:
I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.

...

Zone 1-4 + an extra single journey is how I assumed the worked too, but I'm
apparently mistaken. Does TfL explain exactly how it works anywhere?

This page, http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14837.aspx , states

"Oyster will work out the cheapest combination of fares for all your
journeys in one day."

A zone 1-4 travelcard plus a single oyster fare would have been the
cheapest alternative.

The Z1-4 cap is £10.60, plus £1.40 is £12.00

But the Z1-5 cap is £15.80 - so how does £14.40 arise? (Other than being
£15.80 minus £1.40, which makes no sense).

I assumed £14.40 to be the sum of Oyster single fares for all his journeys
that day.

--
jhk

In message , at 14:12:17 on
Mon, 16 Apr 2012, Jarle H Knudsen remarked:
I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.

...

Zone 1-4 + an extra single journey is how I assumed the worked too, but I'm
apparently mistaken. Does TfL explain exactly how it works anywhere?

This page, http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14837.aspx , states

"Oyster will work out the cheapest combination of fares for all your
journeys in one day."

A zone 1-4 travelcard plus a single oyster fare would have been the
cheapest alternative.

The Z1-4 cap is £10.60, plus £1.40 is £12.00

But the Z1-5 cap is £15.80 - so how does £14.40 arise? (Other than being
£15.80 minus £1.40, which makes no sense).

I assumed £14.40 to be the sum of Oyster single fares for all his journeys
that day.

I see. So he made £14.40-£1.40=£13.00 worth of trips in Z1-4, which
would have been capped at £10.60, had he not strayed into Z5. Makes
sense.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 14:12:17
on Mon, 16 Apr 2012, Jarle H Knudsen remarked:
I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.

...

Zone 1-4 + an extra single journey is how I assumed the worked too, but
I'm apparently mistaken. Does TfL explain exactly how it works
anywhere?

This page, http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14837.aspx , states

"Oyster will work out the cheapest combination of fares for all
your journeys in one day."

A zone 1-4 travelcard plus a single oyster fare would have been the
cheapest alternative.

The Z1-4 cap is £10.60, plus £1.40 is £12.00

But the Z1-5 cap is £15.80 - so how does £14.40 arise? (Other than
being £15.80 minus £1.40, which makes no sense).

I assumed £14.40 to be the sum of Oyster single fares for all his
journeys that day.

I see. So he made £14.40-£1.40=£13.00 worth of trips in Z1-4, which
would have been capped at £10.60, had he not strayed into Z5. Makes sense.

FSVO "sense".

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 13:04:05
on Mon, 16 Apr 2012, remarked:
I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.

...

Zone 1-4 + an extra single journey is how I assumed the worked too, but
I'm apparently mistaken. Does TfL explain exactly how it works
anywhere?

This page, http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14837.aspx , states

"Oyster will work out the cheapest combination of fares for all
your journeys in one day."

A zone 1-4 travelcard plus a single oyster fare would have been the
cheapest alternative.

The Z1-4 cap is £10.60, plus £1.40 is £12.00

But the Z1-5 cap is £15.80 - so how does £14.40 arise? (Other than
being £15.80 minus £1.40, which makes no sense).

I assumed £14.40 to be the sum of Oyster single fares for all his
journeys that day.

I see. So he made £14.40-£1.40=£13.00 worth of trips in Z1-4, which
would have been capped at £10.60, had he not strayed into Z5. Makes sense.

FSVO "sense".

"It adds up", if you prefer that as a description.

If I understand the theory behind the sums above, we can re-write the
Oyster "Price Promise" so rather than what it says above, the wording is
more like:

"Oyster will cap all your journeys in one day to the cost of the
relevant Travelcard that would have been sufficient and necessary to
carry out all those journeys. (There may be other combinations of
ticket which would have cost you less.)"
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 19:44:04 on
Mon, 16 Apr 2012, Paul Corfield remarked:
I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.
Oyster helpdesk staff took a few days to agree that I had been
overcharged and agreed an ex gratia payment for the inconvenience.
The payments were delayed for an extra day as they needed "approval".
Automatic overpayment detection does not recognise the situation.

OTOH, there are discrepancies between the Single Fare Finder and Oyster.
(Oyster charges less.)
Moorgate - Queens Road Peckham peak shows as 3.80 but charges 3.70.
It seems there were recent changes to charges between LU & NR.
The Single Fare Finder has not been updated to reflect those changes.
--
Walter Briscoe

Re. your refund - this would have been purely goodwill. Oyster has
never been able to charge in the way that you think it should.

I hope this was made clear to you when the refund was agreed.

The issue is more involved than that though. We do not know how many
journeys and at what value were undertaken prior to 0930 in terms of
determining what cap applies and then what value of peak journeys
would be added to the Z16 off peak cap.

Why Z16, he only went out as far as Z5.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 20:13:18 on
Mon, 16 Apr 2012, Paul Corfield remarked:
I made many LU journeys in Z1-4 and one costing 1.40 to Z5.
I was charged 14.40, rather than 12.00 - the Z1-4 cap + 1.40.
Oyster helpdesk staff took a few days to agree that I had been
overcharged and agreed an ex gratia payment for the inconvenience.
The payments were delayed for an extra day as they needed "approval".
Automatic overpayment detection does not recognise the situation.

OTOH, there are discrepancies between the Single Fare Finder and Oyster.
(Oyster charges less.)
Moorgate - Queens Road Peckham peak shows as 3.80 but charges 3.70.
It seems there were recent changes to charges between LU & NR.
The Single Fare Finder has not been updated to reflect those changes.
--
Walter Briscoe

Re. your refund - this would have been purely goodwill. Oyster has
never been able to charge in the way that you think it should.

I hope this was made clear to you when the refund was agreed.

The issue is more involved than that though. We do not know how many
journeys and at what value were undertaken prior to 0930 in terms of
determining what cap applies and then what value of peak journeys
would be added to the Z16 off peak cap.

Why Z16, he only went out as far as Z5.

There is no Z15 cap - don't you read those documents I provide links
to? ;-)

My only defence is that the numbers were printed sideways

TfL rationalised the number of caps and zone combinations two years
ago.

So that explains why his fare total of £14.40 hadn't reached a cap yet.
Averaging the 1-4 and 1-6 caps you'd have expected a Z5 cap at about
£13.40

Another way to raise more revenue from farepayers.

In particular those living in Z5.
--
Roland Perry