Oyster readers turned off
 

Leyton tube about 8pm Saturday night.

Hope there weren't too many pre-pay people going through...

For what it's worth, I have a season Oyster so didn't stop to question
it. Then, as it happened, I forgot I was going out of my zone without
pre-pay.

When I got to South Woodford, I couldn't get out of course, so rather
than even making me pay an extension, the 2 SAs kindly let me out for
free (perhaps cos we both talked the same Oyster jargon :-), and I
promised to go and put some pre-pay on to get back in later on.

However, if I HAD had Pre-pay on the Oyster, what would have happened
given that I had no entry recorded? Just an unresolved journey or a
charge of how much on the pre-pay?

Oyster readers turned off
 

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Leyton tube about 8pm Saturday night.

Hope there weren't too many pre-pay people going through...

Are you certain the readers were off? The gates can be set to open but
wouldn't normally be powered down unless there's a fault.

For what it's worth, I have a season Oyster so didn't stop to question
it. Then, as it happened, I forgot I was going out of my zone without
pre-pay.

When I got to South Woodford, I couldn't get out of course, so rather
than even making me pay an extension, the 2 SAs kindly let me out for
free (perhaps cos we both talked the same Oyster jargon :-), and I
promised to go and put some pre-pay on to get back in later on.

However, if I HAD had Pre-pay on the Oyster, what would have happened
given that I had no entry recorded? Just an unresolved journey or a
charge of how much on the pre-pay?

If you had no Pre Pay and went out of Zone you'd have a debit of £1.00
showing. On the way back you'd need to put £2.00 for the cost of two
extensions (assuming you have 1 - 2)

--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster readers turned off
 

Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Leyton tube about 8pm Saturday night.

Hope there weren't too many pre-pay people going through...

Are you certain the readers were off? The gates can be set to open but
wouldn't normally be powered down unless there's a fault.

Absolutely. No lights and no reaction. (I tried briefly.)

In fact, when I got out at South Woodford, I didn't understand why the
machine's "View Oyster Usage" option didn't show that I had just come
from Leyton. Later I remembered it was because the machines were off, so
the entire journey didn't exist.

For what it's worth, I have a season Oyster so didn't stop to question
it. Then, as it happened, I forgot I was going out of my zone without
pre-pay.

When I got to South Woodford, I couldn't get out of course, so rather
than even making me pay an extension, the 2 SAs kindly let me out for
free (perhaps cos we both talked the same Oyster jargon :-), and I
promised to go and put some pre-pay on to get back in later on.

However, if I HAD had Pre-pay on the Oyster, what would have happened
given that I had no entry recorded? Just an unresolved journey or a
charge of how much on the pre-pay?

If you had no Pre Pay and went out of Zone you'd have a debit of £1.00
showing.

So it would assume I had started in Z1-3 (my season)? So if a Z6-D gate
had been off, I would have only paid £1 to get out in Z4, since it would
have assumed I came in in Z1-3?

On the way back you'd need to put £2.00 for the cost of two
extensions (assuming you have 1 - 2)

Oh yeah, getting back would not be a problem - I mean the extension
calculator didn't know where I got on in this case, so I am just
wondering how it would guess where I got on (and what it would guess).

Oyster readers turned off
 

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:
Are you certain the readers were off? The gates can be set to open but
wouldn't normally be powered down unless there's a fault.

Absolutely. No lights and no reaction. (I tried briefly.)

OK, I can find out about that.


So it would assume I had started in Z1-3 (my season)? So if a Z6-D gate
had been off, I would have only paid £1 to get out in Z4, since it would
have assumed I came in in Z1-3?

On the way back you'd need to put £2.00 for the cost of two
extensions (assuming you have 1 - 2)

Oh yeah, getting back would not be a problem - I mean the extension
calculator didn't know where I got on in this case, so I am just
wondering how it would guess where I got on (and what it would guess).

I've given up assuming anything about what Oyster cards might guess. If
you go to a ticket office and get your journey resolved, you can tell
them where and why you couldn't validate the start of your journey and
they ought to accept your word for it.
I imagine you've used your Oyster since Saturday, so how much did you
have to pay?
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster readers turned off
 

Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:
Are you certain the readers were off? The gates can be set to open but
wouldn't normally be powered down unless there's a fault.

Absolutely. No lights and no reaction. (I tried briefly.)

OK, I can find out about that.


So it would assume I had started in Z1-3 (my season)? So if a Z6-D gate
had been off, I would have only paid £1 to get out in Z4, since it would
have assumed I came in in Z1-3?

On the way back you'd need to put £2.00 for the cost of two
extensions (assuming you have 1 - 2)

Oh yeah, getting back would not be a problem - I mean the extension
calculator didn't know where I got on in this case, so I am just
wondering how it would guess where I got on (and what it would guess).

I've given up assuming anything about what Oyster cards might guess. If
you go to a ticket office and get your journey resolved, you can tell
them where and why you couldn't validate the start of your journey and
they ought to accept your word for it.
I imagine you've used your Oyster since Saturday, so how much did you
have to pay?

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

(Plus I didn't reenter anyway, got a lift home.)

I think at South Woodford there is no cash office inside the gate, so
they had to let me out even if they were gonna make me buy an extension.
However, they made it clear they didn't expect me to, they just said
"we'd suggest you put some prepay on for coming back and if this journey
comes up as unresolved, go to the ticket office to sort it out".

In a way, I am glad there wasn't any prepay on it, since I don't know
how much it would have deducted!

Oyster readers turned off
 

In message , Dave Newt
writes
In a way, I am glad there wasn't any prepay on it, since I don't know
how much it would have deducted!

It wouldn't have mattered if there *was* or *was not* Pre Pay on it, if
the validators had been working you'd have been charged £1.00 anyway.
No Pre Pay at all and it's a debit (shows as -£1.00)
Any Pre Pay amount at all (say 20p) and it would show -£0.80 or
whatever.
Pre Pay is enabled on ALL Oyster cards... except ours it seems.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster readers turned off
 

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

I thought you said you couldn't get out at South Woodford. Was this
because the Oyster wouldn't open the gate or because you didn't try
because you realised that not validating at Leyton would cause problems?
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster readers turned off
 

Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

I thought you said you couldn't get out at South Woodford. Was this
because the Oyster wouldn't open the gate or because you didn't try
because you realised that not validating at Leyton would cause problems?

I tried and it didn't let me out.

However, I'm still struggling with understanding for which reason it
chose to do so!

i.e. because there was zero prepay (should have let me out with a
negative balance?) or because there was no recorded entry (should have
done - er no idea) or some other reason.

Oyster readers turned off
 

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

I thought you said you couldn't get out at South Woodford. Was this
because the Oyster wouldn't open the gate or because you didn't try
because you realised that not validating at Leyton would cause problems?

I tried and it didn't let me out.

However, I'm still struggling with understanding for which reason it
chose to do so!

i.e. because there was zero prepay (should have let me out with a
negative balance?) or because there was no recorded entry (should have
done - er no idea) or some other reason.

Some other reason I suspect.
The gates should open with a warning Seek Assistance if you have either
a negative Pre Pay balance or an Unresolved Journey.
They just won't let you IN again until it's been sorted out.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster readers turned off
 

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:43:46 +0000, Dave Newt
wrote:

Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes

Hmm, nothing in this case - my journey was not unresolved, since the
machines were off on entry, and the SAs were nice on exit. :-)

I thought you said you couldn't get out at South Woodford. Was this
because the Oyster wouldn't open the gate or because you didn't try
because you realised that not validating at Leyton would cause problems?

I tried and it didn't let me out.

However, I'm still struggling with understanding for which reason it
chose to do so!

i.e. because there was zero prepay (should have let me out with a
negative balance?) or because there was no recorded entry (should have
done - er no idea) or some other reason.

My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster readers turned off
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.

Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.
If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster readers turned off
 

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:35:19 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.

Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.
If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.

Oh dear - I think I need to book myself on the Oyster training course.
That'll teach me to apply my old knowledge of ticket logic. I must
re-read the intranet notes on error 24 again then.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster readers turned off
 

Kat wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.

Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.

....but there was no unresolved journey. It worked fine when I next used
it (the next day).

In a way, whether Paul is right or wrong, it seems to make more sense,
logically.

If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.

'Fraid I don't know - neither me nor the SAs looked (well, they might
have done, but they didn't comment). Possible, though it would have been
a bit of a coinkidink do have stumbled upon a dodgy gate as well as
everything else...

Ah well, we live and (don't) learn!

Oyster readers turned off
 

Are you certain the readers were off? The gates can be set to open but
wouldn't normally be powered down unless there's a fault.

I've saved a small fortune out of zone recently because the gates at
stations are open and the Oyster readers don't do anything (no noise,
no LED, nothing recorded on the card) when you touch your card on
them.

There's no point in these endless "remember to touch your card on the
reader even if the gates are open" messages and posters if the readers
are all switched off!

This has happened to me at London Bridge, Morden, South Wimbledon and
Vauxhall (NR) in the past two weeks - I want to give TfL my money but
apparently they don't want it!

Oyster readers turned off
 

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:
Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.

...but there was no unresolved journey. It worked fine when I next used
it (the next day).

Exactly... That's why it shouldn't have been a code 24

In a way, whether Paul is right or wrong, it seems to make more sense,
logically.

Maybe but it's not the way it's been set up to work.
A Pre Pay debit should not stop you from leaving the system; it just
prevents you from re-entering until it's been cleared.

I think that I mentioned in another thread that I don't know the
reasoning behind this but I guess that it's better to have people who
need to pay the debit on the unpaid side of the gates. They then have
the choice of machines, ticket office, phone or online to add Pre Pay
and clear the debit instead of waiting at a (usually) unmanned excess
fares window on the paid side.

If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.

'Fraid I don't know - neither me nor the SAs looked (well, they might
have done, but they didn't comment). Possible, though it would have been
a bit of a coinkidink do have stumbled upon a dodgy gate as well as
everything else...

It's not impossible that there was some sort of widespread system
failure at that time... I'd gone home by then and after an afternoon of
Sunderland supporters, I was glad to.

Ah well, we live and (don't) learn!

Early days... I have great faith that it will all work beautifully in
the end.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster readers turned off
 

In article , Dave Newt wrote:

Leyton tube about 8pm Saturday night.

Hope there weren't too many pre-pay people going through...

Not Leyton, but Totteridge and Whetstone, for a few days all the gates
were set to "Entry only", but with the gates open. The oystercard readers
on the 'inside' part of the gates had no lights whatsoever, and wouldn't
accept. Problem then was on walking through the 'open' gates, it picked
up an attempt to enter again, leaving an unresolved journey on there and
a potential overcharge. The station, as it often is, was unmanned.

There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't just
leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past few
years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

I have noticed that at Finchley Central, the gates in the ticket hall have
had their slots for paper tickets taped up, and they're now just acting
as entry/exit validators. (They were placed in a rather silly place
anyway as you could easily just walk around to the other side of the gates).

--
Simon Hewison

Oyster readers turned off
 

Simon Hewison wrote in
:


There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't
just leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past
few years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

And Old Street today. This morning going out, gates locked open, Oyster
readers taped over. The one member of staff seemed quite put out when I
asked him how I should validate my Oyster outbound since I have pre-pay
as well as a travelcard on it, then moved away from the only working
outbound reader so that I could now see it and use it.

Going in this evening, main gates locked open, Oyster readers not even
showing red. Since I was early, it wasn't too busy, so I looked around
and found the only inbound Oyster reader working off to one side. (but
no-one to ask what was going on, and no notices).

Given that I have noted that there are now significant number of Oysters
in use, this is not looking good.

van

Oyster readers turned off
 

I will look into the Totteridge problem. I would of thought that some of the
gates are not reversible so you should always have a way in and a way out.
Not withstanding any faults of course. Gates should always be left in an
open position if there are no staff.

Finchley Central gates have not been commissioned as such because staff have
no place of safety available and more importantly there is a total lack of
space in the ticket hall.

The hazard tape has been put the

1, To stop the use of paper tickets as they can create faults and
subsequently close the gates.
2, If a customer was to loose their ticket there may not be a member of
staff available to retrieve it.
3, On top of one of the sensors as the gate is set for exit only and as the
gates are permanently open people were putting their oyster card on it
thinking it would work.

Since the introduction of pre-pay there has been a increase in the amount of
people using the sensors however some just ignore the warning bleep and so
do not validate their oyster properly and some use the exit validators on
the way in. These people will at one time end up with unresolved journeys or
worse pay to much for their journey. My hope is that they will learn quickly

"Simon Hewison" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Newt wrote:

Leyton tube about 8pm Saturday night.

Hope there weren't too many pre-pay people going through...

Not Leyton, but Totteridge and Whetstone, for a few days all the gates
were set to "Entry only", but with the gates open. The oystercard readers
on the 'inside' part of the gates had no lights whatsoever, and wouldn't
accept. Problem then was on walking through the 'open' gates, it picked
up an attempt to enter again, leaving an unresolved journey on there and
a potential overcharge. The station, as it often is, was unmanned.

There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't just
leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past few
years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

I have noticed that at Finchley Central, the gates in the ticket hall have
had their slots for paper tickets taped up, and they're now just acting
as entry/exit validators. (They were placed in a rather silly place
anyway as you could easily just walk around to the other side of the
gates).

--
Simon Hewison

Oyster readers turned off
 

Oyster readers turned off
 

As I mentioned in another thread the Vauxhall NR reader do not seem to
update the status of the card as you pass through. I often take
Vauxhall NR - Waterloo - Bank - Shadwell DLR (SWT and the Drain is
usually quicker than underground via Oxford Circus) but if I use the
Oyster to enter at Vauxhall NR then use the validators on exit at
Shadwell DLR the screens at Shadwell show 'Enter' rather than 'Exit'
and I get an unresolved journey, even though it is all within my
Travelcard zones. Vauxhall NR also does not show up on the journey
record on the large ticket machines - although the DLR also shows up
as blanks come to think of it.

You have to validate in at Waterloo (Waterloo & City) platforms, as
you always need to have swiped in and out for the part of your journey
where Prepay is valid, even if you havea vaild travelcard covering all
the zones.

Oyster readers turned off
 

Simon Hewison wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Newt wrote:

Leyton tube about 8pm Saturday night.

Hope there weren't too many pre-pay people going through...

Not Leyton, but Totteridge and Whetstone, for a few days all the gates
were set to "Entry only", but with the gates open. The oystercard readers
on the 'inside' part of the gates had no lights whatsoever, and wouldn't
accept. Problem then was on walking through the 'open' gates, it picked
up an attempt to enter again, leaving an unresolved journey on there and
a potential overcharge. The station, as it often is, was unmanned.

There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't just
leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past few
years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

I have noticed that at Finchley Central, the gates in the ticket hall have
had their slots for paper tickets taped up, and they're now just acting
as entry/exit validators. (They were placed in a rather silly place
anyway as you could easily just walk around to the other side of the gates).

But (e.g. in Totteridge) can't you just use the Oyster validator
machine next to the ticket gates to end your journey?? - regardless of
what the gates are set to?

Oyster readers turned off
 

In message , Simon Hewison
writes
Not Leyton, but Totteridge and Whetstone, for a few days all the gates
were set to "Entry only", but with the gates open. The oystercard readers
on the 'inside' part of the gates had no lights whatsoever, and wouldn't
accept. Problem then was on walking through the 'open' gates, it picked
up an attempt to enter again, leaving an unresolved journey on there and
a potential overcharge. The station, as it often is, was unmanned.

There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't just
leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past few
years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

When gates are set Open (from the SCU) they are still set in either
entry or exit mode. Whichever sort you need to validate the start or
finish of your journey, look for gates which have their paddles on the
side away from you.
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned, so thank you for an interesting point.
(This applies to electronic gates; as I've never worked at a station
with pneumatic gates, I don't know how they behave.)
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster readers turned off
 

In article ,
Kat wrote:
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned,

Manned, too; at East Finchley last night, all the gates were in
exit mode.

Although there were staff about, I didn't bother them. I'll get
the inevitable unsresolved journey fixed when I pick up a customer
charter form at the next queue-free ticket office I see. [1]


[1] I would have been rude; I'd just walked from Finchley Central,
and was a bit cold, a bit late, and quite a lot ****ed off.

--
You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's.

Oyster readers turned off
 

Some gates at East Finchley only work in one direction so there should
always be one validator for way in and way out.
There is also a stand alone validator which works in both directions but it
has a long term problem so probably was not working.
The only trouble comes when an emergency plunger is pressed as this will set
all gates to exit only.
East Finchley is also a depot station so many of the staff you see are
drivers and therefore have no direct knowledge about the gates.
At present there are meant to be six staff on a roster working the gates.
However only one vacancy is filled.

Thanks for not being to vocal about the problems. There were enough people
this morning making there views known. I have yet to find out why decisions
were made but the staff in charge are experienced and would not shut a
station unless they really had to. Apologies on there behalf.


"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kat wrote:
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned,

Manned, too; at East Finchley last night, all the gates were in
exit mode.

Although there were staff about, I didn't bother them. I'll get
the inevitable unsresolved journey fixed when I pick up a customer
charter form at the next queue-free ticket office I see. [1]


[1] I would have been rude; I'd just walked from Finchley Central,
and was a bit cold, a bit late, and quite a lot ****ed off.

--
You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's.

Oyster readers turned off
 

Oyster readers turned off
 

Oyster readers turned off
 

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:17:26 +0000, Kat
wrote:
When gates are set Open (from the SCU) they are still set in either
entry or exit mode. Whichever sort you need to validate the start or
finish of your journey, look for gates which have their paddles on the
side away from you.
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned, so thank you for an interesting point.
(This applies to electronic gates; as I've never worked at a station
with pneumatic gates, I don't know how they behave.)

That's interesting... As a user I'd have expected that *any* barrier
with a card reader on my side of the gate would be OK. I suppose I'd
be more likely to approach a gate with a green arrow if it's quiet.

What happens if a station needs to be evacuated? Once the message
about "touch out", and the potential expense if you don't has sunk in,
will people be more difficult to shift from the station in an
emergency? Not a new problem - the Paris metro discovered it 101
years ago at Couronnes with terrible results.

Thanks,

Richard.

Oyster readers turned off
 

"Richard" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:17:26 +0000, Kat
wrote:
When gates are set Open (from the SCU) they are still set in either
entry or exit mode. Whichever sort you need to validate the start or
finish of your journey, look for gates which have their paddles on the
side away from you.
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned, so thank you for an interesting point.
(This applies to electronic gates; as I've never worked at a station
with pneumatic gates, I don't know how they behave.)

That's interesting... As a user I'd have expected that *any* barrier
with a card reader on my side of the gate would be OK. I suppose I'd
be more likely to approach a gate with a green arrow if it's quiet.

What happens if a station needs to be evacuated? Once the message
about "touch out", and the potential expense if you don't has sunk in,
will people be more difficult to shift from the station in an
emergency? Not a new problem - the Paris metro discovered it 101
years ago at Couronnes with terrible results.

Thanks,

Richard.

Many staff have asked the same question but there is no corporate answer
yet. It just adds to the trouble already discussed in another thread about
evacuations. The other thing that has not been addressed is a local power
failure. Some stations can remain open but would have no facility for the
Oyster cards. When I asked about this I was told it would never happen!

Oyster readers turned off
 

"Anon" wrote in message ...
"Richard" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:17:26 +0000, Kat
wrote:
When gates are set Open (from the SCU) they are still set in either
entry or exit mode. Whichever sort you need to validate the start or
finish of your journey, look for gates which have their paddles on the
side away from you.
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned, so thank you for an interesting point.
(This applies to electronic gates; as I've never worked at a station
with pneumatic gates, I don't know how they behave.)

That's interesting... As a user I'd have expected that *any* barrier
with a card reader on my side of the gate would be OK. I suppose I'd
be more likely to approach a gate with a green arrow if it's quiet.

What happens if a station needs to be evacuated? Once the message
about "touch out", and the potential expense if you don't has sunk in,
will people be more difficult to shift from the station in an
emergency? Not a new problem - the Paris metro discovered it 101
years ago at Couronnes with terrible results.

Thanks,

Richard.

Many staff have asked the same question but there is no corporate answer
yet. It just adds to the trouble already discussed in another thread about
evacuations. The other thing that has not been addressed is a local power
failure. Some stations can remain open but would have no facility for the
Oyster cards. When I asked about this I was told it would never happen!

IMO if a station is evacuated for any reason, TfL have two ways to deal
with Oystercards:

1. Set up a booth with a battery-powered wireless validator and simply have
everyone touch their card to erase the entry record, then let them go.
2. Do the same as above, but instead generate an exit record and charge them
for their abortive journey.

We can all guess how much angst #2 would cause...

Brad

Oyster readers turned off
 

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...

IMO if a station is evacuated for any reason, TfL have two ways to deal
with Oystercards:

1. Set up a booth with a battery-powered wireless validator and simply
have
everyone touch their card to erase the entry record, then let them go.
2. Do the same as above, but instead generate an exit record and charge
them
for their abortive journey.

Or option 3. Cancel all unresolved journeys on the central system for people
who could have been effected. Having had local staff make announcements that
you won't be charged.

Dave.

Oyster readers turned off
 

"Dave Liney" wrote in message
...

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...

IMO if a station is evacuated for any reason, TfL have two ways to deal
with Oystercards:

1. Set up a booth with a battery-powered wireless validator and simply
have
everyone touch their card to erase the entry record, then let them go.
2. Do the same as above, but instead generate an exit record and charge
them
for their abortive journey.

Or option 3. Cancel all unresolved journeys on the central system for
people
who could have been effected. Having had local staff make announcements
that
you won't be charged.

Dave.



Option three is what they used the other day when there was a network wide
failure of gates. I however did not hear any reassuring P/A's at the
stations I went through.

Oyster readers turned off
 

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:10:37 +0000, wrote:


You have to validate in at Waterloo (Waterloo & City) platforms, as
you always need to have swiped in and out for the part of your journey
where Prepay is valid, even if you havea vaild travelcard covering all
the zones.

Says who? The signs say otherwise.

Oyster readers turned off
 

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:51:31 -0000, "Anon"
wrote:



What happens if a station needs to be evacuated?

Many staff have asked the same question but there is no corporate answer
yet.

Shouldn't this issue have been resolved *before* pre-pay went live?

Oyster readers turned off
 

"K" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:51:31 -0000, "Anon"
wrote:



What happens if a station needs to be evacuated?

Many staff have asked the same question but there is no corporate answer
yet.

Shouldn't this issue have been resolved *before* pre-pay went live?

Yes

Oyster readers turned off
 

K wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:10:37 +0000, wrote:


You have to validate in at Waterloo (Waterloo & City) platforms, as
you always need to have swiped in and out for the part of your journey
where Prepay is valid, even if you havea vaild travelcard covering all
the zones.

Says who? The signs say otherwise.

The signs are wrong. Possibly the Prepay / Travelcard logic will be
changed at some point to agree with the signs.

Oyster readers turned off
 

On 4 Feb 2004 14:32:58 -0800, (Matthew
Dickinson) wrote:



Says who? The signs say otherwise.

The signs are wrong. Possibly the Prepay / Travelcard logic will be
changed at some point to agree with the signs.

As I said - Says who? Are we to take your word for it that all the
signs and literature are incorrect?

Oyster readers turned off
 

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:29:22 +0000, K wrote:

On 4 Feb 2004 14:32:58 -0800, (Matthew
Dickinson) wrote:



Says who? The signs say otherwise.

The signs are wrong. Possibly the Prepay / Travelcard logic will be
changed at some point to agree with the signs.

As I said - Says who? Are we to take your word for it that all the
signs and literature are incorrect?

Most of the other posters and leaflets (although they are mostly not
well phrased.)