On 06/06/2012 13:07, 77002 wrote:
On Jun 5, 11:33 am, Roland wrote:
In , at 10:24:54 on Tue, 5 Jun 2012,
The Real remarked:

Then at North Weald there is an option of a diesel shuttle into Epping
Forest. Or a steam hauled trip to Ongar and back.

As a matter of interest, why two train sets on each side of North Weald
and not end-to-end trains? Some issue with steam in the forest?

Clearance under the M11 bridge?


Epping to Ongar would have been the perfect line for preserved 1938
and Standard tube trains. I know Electricity, Elfin Safety. There
are US preserved Trolley Lines with 600v DC overhead.

As there are here in the UK, the main example being the National Tramway
Museum at Crich.

Might have something to do with the fact that the 3rd and 4th rails are
on the ground and those propose a greater risk to civilians. Agencies
with charters to provide public transport probably have an easier time
securing the needed permits and insurance as they will have have backing
from various government bodies.

On 06/06/2012 15:51, 77002 wrote:
On Jun 6, 3:15 pm, Basil wrote:
On 2012\06\06 13:07, 77002 wrote:

On Jun 5, 11:33 am, Roland wrote:
In , at 10:24:54 on Tue, 5 Jun 2012,
The Real remarked:

Then at North Weald there is an option of a diesel shuttle into Epping
Forest. Or a steam hauled trip to Ongar and back.

As a matter of interest, why two train sets on each side of North Weald
and not end-to-end trains? Some issue with steam in the forest?

Clearance under the M11 bridge?

Epping to Ongar would have been the perfect line for preserved 1938
and Standard tube trains.

Of course not, it's the middle of nowhere, and Tube stock only makes
sense in a Tube. The Aldwych branch (accessed from Holborn only) would
be much better. Even the abandoned Thameslink tunnels from Barbican to
Moorgate would be a better place for preserved Tube stock than a field
in Essex.

Come on Basil, the Thameslink tunnels would not look right. The
platforms are too high and the tunnels are too big. The Aldwych
Branch, with Aldwych Station re-opend by preservationists would be
perfect. But, we both know that is not going to happen. The Ongar
Branch is the next best thing.

Considering how passenger volumes have risen in past years, would TfL
ever consider reactivating the Aldwych branch?

Perhaps they could run a pilotless shuttle out that way and back,
something along the lines of rolling stock seen on the Copenhagen Metro.

Interesting thought.

In message , at 02:03:01 on Thu, 7 Jun 2012,
" remarked:
Considering how passenger volumes have risen in past years, would TfL
ever consider reactivating the Aldwych branch?

aiui the problem is the cost of refurbishing Aldwych Station, especially
the lifts, rather than the line itself.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 11:07:07 on
Thu, 7 Jun 2012, remarked:
Those who are really interested have at
the moment the chance of the Sarah Siddons tours and the occasional
run of the 1938 tube stock and surely it is better to keep such as
artifacts in good condition with an occasional run rather than wear
such things out bashing them up down a few miles every weekend
carrying uninterested children wondering why they don't look like the
trains from Underground Ernie.

I think you might be surprised. The Waterloo and City centenary open
weekend was very well patronised, for example. And my son got a cab ride
(which my daughter has never quite forgiven either of us for).
--
Roland Perry

On Jun 7, 11:07*am, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 01:31:41 +0100, "

wrote:

Epping to Ongar would have been the perfect line for preserved 1938
and Standard tube trains. *I know Electricity, Elfin Safety. *There
are US preserved Trolley Lines with 600v DC overhead.

As there are here in the UK, the main example being the National Tramway
Museum at Crich.

Might have something to do with the fact that the 3rd and 4th rails are
on the ground and those propose a greater risk to civilians. Agencies
with charters to provide public transport probably have an easier time
securing the needed permits and insurance as they will have have backing
from various government bodies.

Then stick a trolley pole on the stock,that is what has been done in
the USA where some New York equipment is worked at a trolley museum.

But really would there be enough long term interest to make such a
line worthwhile. Underground stock to the vast majority of people is
all much of a much ness. Joe public is not going to frequent a line
that doesn't offer a much different experience than riding on above
ground section of the Piccadilly. And even amongst rail enthusiasts
the attraction is limited . Those who are really interested have at
the moment the chance of the Sarah Siddons tours and the occasional
run of the 1938 tube stock and surely it is better to keep such as
artifacts in good condition with an occasional run rather than wear
such things out bashing them up down a few miles every weekend
carrying uninterested children wondering why they don't look like the
trains from Underground Ernie.

Recreating the period imediatetly post electification would give
plenty of scope for variety. At that point steam freight still ran
over the Ongar branch (Central Line). ISTR there was an early morning
DMU to Liverpool Street also.

"77002" wrote

Keep in mind that in the early tube years
the route to Ongar had electric passenger trains, and steam freight
trains.

For several years after the tube got to Epping in 1949 until 1957 the Ongar
shuttle remained steam operated (by BR on behalf of LT).

Peter

Roland Perry wrote:

Considering how passenger volumes have risen in past years, would TfL ever
consider reactivating the Aldwych branch?

aiui the problem is the cost of refurbishing Aldwych Station, especially
the lifts, rather than the line itself.

Plus there was very little time gained from using the shuttle over walking
to or from Holborn - the journey was very short and infrequent enough for
that.
--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c

On 07/06/2012 17:04, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Considering how passenger volumes have risen in past years, would TfL ever
consider reactivating the Aldwych branch?

aiui the problem is the cost of refurbishing Aldwych Station, especially
the lifts, rather than the line itself.

So, put the money into the lifts finally.

Plus there was very little time gained from using the shuttle over walking
to or from Holborn - the journey was very short and infrequent enough for
that.


The walk from Holborn to Aldwych is not so short.

What about Leicester Square-Covent Garden, Embankment-Charing Cross or
Canary Wharf-Heron Quays?

Leicester Square and Covent Garden are so close that there is a
policeman at the former because of concerns about the overlap should a
train fly past the station. I also notice that, if things are quiet
enough at Leicester Square, you can actually hear the train braking, the
doors opening, the closing signal and the train taking off again.

Canary Wharf and Heron Quays are within plain view of each other -- no
obstructions or anything like that.

All three examples that I gave are also within very easy walking
distance between each other, whereas a walk between Holborn and Aldwych
will take longer.

On 07/06/2012 11:07, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 01:31:41 +0100, "
wrote:




Epping to Ongar would have been the perfect line for preserved 1938
and Standard tube trains. I know Electricity, Elfin Safety. There
are US preserved Trolley Lines with 600v DC overhead.

As there are here in the UK, the main example being the National Tramway
Museum at Crich.

Might have something to do with the fact that the 3rd and 4th rails are
on the ground and those propose a greater risk to civilians. Agencies
with charters to provide public transport probably have an easier time
securing the needed permits and insurance as they will have have backing
from various government bodies.

Then stick a trolley pole on the stock,that is what has been done in
the USA where some New York equipment is worked at a trolley museum.

But really would there be enough long term interest to make such a
line worthwhile. Underground stock to the vast majority of people is
all much of a much ness. Joe public is not going to frequent a line
that doesn't offer a much different experience than riding on above
ground section of the Piccadilly. And even amongst rail enthusiasts
the attraction is limited . Those who are really interested have at
the moment the chance of the Sarah Siddons tours and the occasional
run of the 1938 tube stock and surely it is better to keep such as
artifacts in good condition with an occasional run rather than wear
such things out bashing them up down a few miles every weekend
carrying uninterested children wondering why they don't look like the
trains from Underground Ernie.

G.Harman


I was just mentioning why I think that it would be difficult to
reinstall 3rd and 4th rail again on Epping-Ongar -- nothing else.

On 07/06/2012 11:39, 77002 wrote:
On Jun 7, 11:07 am, wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 01:31:41 +0100, "

wrote:

Epping to Ongar would have been the perfect line for preserved 1938
and Standard tube trains. I know Electricity, Elfin Safety. There
are US preserved Trolley Lines with 600v DC overhead.

As there are here in the UK, the main example being the National Tramway
Museum at Crich.

Might have something to do with the fact that the 3rd and 4th rails are
on the ground and those propose a greater risk to civilians. Agencies
with charters to provide public transport probably have an easier time
securing the needed permits and insurance as they will have have backing
from various government bodies.

Then stick a trolley pole on the stock,that is what has been done in
the USA where some New York equipment is worked at a trolley museum.

But really would there be enough long term interest to make such a
line worthwhile. Underground stock to the vast majority of people is
all much of a much ness. Joe public is not going to frequent a line
that doesn't offer a much different experience than riding on above
ground section of the Piccadilly. And even amongst rail enthusiasts
the attraction is limited . Those who are really interested have at
the moment the chance of the Sarah Siddons tours and the occasional
run of the 1938 tube stock and surely it is better to keep such as
artifacts in good condition with an occasional run rather than wear
such things out bashing them up down a few miles every weekend
carrying uninterested children wondering why they don't look like the
trains from Underground Ernie.

Recreating the period imediatetly post electification would give
plenty of scope for variety. At that point steam freight still ran
over the Ongar branch (Central Line). ISTR there was an early morning
DMU to Liverpool Street also.


And where did it gateway onto BR, Stratford?