In Barcelona, TMB have recently announced a redesign of their bus
network. As many will know much of the city is laid-out on a grid
pattern and correspondingly the new network is to have a large number
of horizontal (Hnn), vertical (Vnn) and diagonal (Dnn) routes, and
this new network is to be introduced in phases, along with changes to
those existing routes that will remain. The first of the H routes,
along the Gran Via, is to get a number of double-articulated buses. I
wonder what Boris would think of that?

Now, the core of the much larger London bus network is quite historic.
A number of train operators have come round to the idea of a complete
recast of routes and times, often the first for 40 years. My question
is would London's buses benefit from a clean sheet? Ignoring for the
moment the complications introduced by tendering, would this be a good
thing on the streets? Ideas please.

Richard.

On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:35:22 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

I have not been to Barcelona so don't know its size relative to
London. I doubt TfL could deliver the same objectives as Barcelona has
by introducing 28 new routes.

Barcelona is tiny compared to London.

On 2012\06\08 00:46, Paul Corfield wrote:

What I would like to see is some considered, in depth reviews about
long standing "missing direct links" in the bus network [1].

[1] - some examples. Walthamstow - Enfield,

The 191 linked Enfield with the north side of Walthamstow, but was
curtailed in 1982, so I'm not sure how much use such a route would get,
but extending the W8 to Angel Road Tescos seems like a no-brainer, and
that would give a much better one-change route from Walthamstow to
Enfield than any of the existing traffic-clogged options.

Incidentally, there is a video map showing every bus journey in London
on http://mappinglondon.co.uk/ along with a tube map redesigned to fit
in a strip of tape and other goodies.

On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 13:19:46 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\06\08 00:46, Paul Corfield wrote:

What I would like to see is some considered, in depth reviews about
long standing "missing direct links" in the bus network [1].

[1] - some examples. Walthamstow - Enfield,

The 191 linked Enfield with the north side of Walthamstow, but was
curtailed in 1982, so I'm not sure how much use such a route would get,
but extending the W8 to Angel Road Tescos seems like a no-brainer, and

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

B2003

Paul Corfield wrote:

What it looks like to me is a mix of "core route" design as practised
so much by our deregulated operators combined with some classic
planned network touches like planned interchanges, bus priority and
easy interchange.

It also seems not dissimilar to the German Metrobus concept, where you have
a set of routes that fill in gaps in the rapid transit rail system and are
publicised far more heavily than the "local buses for local people" that
are also there in the background. The usual way this is done number wise
is to use 2 digit numbers for Metrobusse and 3 digit ones for local
services.

This could in itself be applied to London without changing the routes
around much - there are a good number of obvious primary routes e.g. 73,
38, 25, 59/(1)68, 205 and one that has already been differentiated i.e. the
RV1, and a good number of very secondary routes, often run using smaller
buses. You'd just have to renumber a bit and slightly rationalise some
combinations e.g. 59/68/168/X68 a bit.

As for V and H bus routes, this gets proposed in Milton Keynes from time to
time, but it's usually conceded in the end that people would prefer a
slower through bus than a need for most people to change to reach the
centre.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

Yes, they refer to the areas in which very local buses operate to avoid the
need to use very long numbers. So W is Walthamstow, U is Uxbridge etc.
RV1 is a special case, meaning RiVerside, though I have no idea if there
was ever planned to be an RV2 or just that it's convention for bus numbers
to actually contain a number of some sort.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

On 2012\06\08 13:28, d wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

The original ones such as the W8 were flat fare routes, before all bus
routes were flat fare. Many of them replaced existing numbered bus
routes, for instance the W3 was called the 233 before it went flat fare
in 1968. Some or all of them had a coin box with a slot and gave no
change, and some or all took multi-ride clipper strips in a turnstile
lane opposite the driver. Other routes such as the W5 were introduced
after all buses went flat fare, so there is no good reason for them to
have the letter.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers
are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

Yes, they refer to the areas in which very local buses operate to avoid
the
need to use very long numbers. So W is Walthamstow, U is Uxbridge etc.
RV1 is a special case, meaning RiVerside, though I have no idea if there
was ever planned to be an RV2 or just that it's convention for bus numbers
to actually contain a number of some sort.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to
reply.

I sometimes thought that didn't sit very well when the 55 (Chiswick/Hayes
via both sides of the Uxbridge Road) was replaced by the E3
(Chiswick/Greenford via both sides of the Uxbridge Road). Living as I did
at one of the Chiswick Terminii it never felt like a local Ealing service.

On 8 Jun 2012 12:38:44 GMT
Neil Williams wrote:
wrote:

Why do some london bus routes have a letter in them? Its not like numbers
are
in short supply. Do the letters signify something special?

Yes, they refer to the areas in which very local buses operate to avoid the
need to use very long numbers. So W is Walthamstow, U is Uxbridge etc.

That can't be right. The W6 runs near me and I don't live anywhere near
Walthamstow.

B2003

On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 13:44:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
The original ones such as the W8 were flat fare routes, before all bus
routes were flat fare. Many of them replaced existing numbered bus
routes, for instance the W3 was called the 233 before it went flat fare
in 1968. Some or all of them had a coin box with a slot and gave no
change, and some or all took multi-ride clipper strips in a turnstile
lane opposite the driver. Other routes such as the W5 were introduced
after all buses went flat fare, so there is no good reason for them to
have the letter.

Interesting. I wonder why they keep the letters now? Seems an odd anomaly.

B2003