Oyster bug
 

The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any light on this?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ing%20Standard

Oyster bug
 

"Nicholas F Hodder" wrote the following in:


The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster
card, but they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any
light on this?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ource=Evening%
20Standard

"Announcements are being made at stations telling passengers how to use
the cards in an effort to try to make them work."

That suggests to me it's probably something to do with pre-pay
deducting the maximum fare if passengers don't "touch the card on the
yellow readers at the start and end of your journey". I know that's not
a bug, that's just people using it incorrectly, but I am taking into
account the usual level of Evening Standard inaccuracy.

--
message by Robin May, succeeding at failure.
Enjoy the Routemaster while you still can.

Crime is confusing.

Oyster bug
 

In message , Nicholas F
Hodder writes
The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any light on this?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ing%20Standard


Of course, I don't know for certain that this is what the esteemed
Evening Standard is talking about but the majority of the problems I've
seen are due to people now realising that they're supposed to pay for
all the zones they've travelled in and are now getting hammered for
extensions across Zone 1
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster bug
 

"Robin May" wrote in message
.4...

"Announcements are being made at stations telling passengers how to use
the cards in an effort to try to make them work."

That suggests to me it's probably something to do with pre-pay
deducting the maximum fare if passengers don't "touch the card on the
yellow readers at the start and end of your journey". I know that's not
a bug, that's just people using it incorrectly, but I am taking into
account the usual level of Evening Standard inaccuracy.

I thought so too when I read "Announcements are being made at stations
telling passengers how to use the cards in an effort to try to make them
work" but then I read "Prestige, the firm that runs the Oyster card, is
recalling some of them to discover how they can rectify the bug, staff have
told the MP". If they have to recall some of the cards, then it does not
sound like a passenger education issue.

Oyster bug
 

Nicholas F Hodder wrote:
"Robin May" wrote in message
.4...

"Announcements are being made at stations telling passengers how to
use the cards in an effort to try to make them work."

That suggests to me it's probably something to do with pre-pay
deducting the maximum fare if passengers don't "touch the card on the
yellow readers at the start and end of your journey". I know that's
not a bug, that's just people using it incorrectly, but I am taking
into account the usual level of Evening Standard inaccuracy.

I thought so too when I read "Announcements are being made at stations
telling passengers how to use the cards in an effort to try to make
them work" but then I read "Prestige, the firm that runs the Oyster
card, is recalling some of them to discover how they can rectify the
bug, staff have told the MP". If they have to recall some of the
cards, then it does not sound like a passenger education issue.

Since the company is Transys, not Prestige, you can draw your own
conclusions about the accuracy of the rest of the story.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Oyster bug
 

"Nicholas F Hodder" wrote in message
...
The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is.

Salmonella?

Oyster bug
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:29:36 -0000, "Nicholas F Hodder"
wrote:

The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any light on this?


One bug is that if you finish your journey at a station with Oyster
readers on the gates where prepay is not active (such as Camden Road),
you will have an £5.10 unresolved journey on your card, even if your
have a valid travelcard covering all the zones of your journey.
-

Oyster bug
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:44:46 +0000, Kat wrote:
In message , Nicholas F
Hodder writes
The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any light on this?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ing%20Standard


Of course, I don't know for certain that this is what the esteemed
Evening Standard is talking about but the majority of the problems I've
seen are due to people now realising that they're supposed to pay for
all the zones they've travelled in and are now getting hammered for
extensions across Zone 1

The BBC have slightly more information...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3422051.stm

Commuters whose cards have been affected will see the words
"seek assistance" and the number "24" displayed in the
bottom left-hand corner of ticket barrier screens.

David

Oyster bug
 

In message , David Walters
writes
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:44:46 +0000, Kat wrote:

Of course, I don't know for certain that this is what the esteemed
Evening Standard is talking about but the majority of the problems I've
seen are due to people now realising that they're supposed to pay for
all the zones they've travelled in and are now getting hammered for
extensions across Zone 1

The BBC have slightly more information...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3422051.stm

Commuters whose cards have been affected will see the words
"seek assistance" and the number "24" displayed in the
bottom left-hand corner of ticket barrier screens.

I have only seen one Oyster where there was no obvious reason why a 24
should show up. I don't know how far back Transys can track journeys but
the HHC only shows the last eight (printouts from the TOMs show 10, I
think) but it's possible that if the passenger has made a lot of bus
journeys after a Pre Pay debit has been incurred, that the original out
of zone journey may not then show up although the debit will.
The zone system is hard to remember, even for us, so lots of passengers
don't realise they've gone out of zone. Some, of course, are well aware
that they ought to be paying for Zone 1 travel and are not happy that
the system now catches them out.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster bug
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:08:52 +0000, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:29:36 -0000, "Nicholas F Hodder"
wrote:
The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any light on this?

One bug is that if you finish your journey at a station with Oyster
readers on the gates where prepay is not active (such as Camden Road),
you will have an £5.10 unresolved journey on your card, even if your
have a valid travelcard covering all the zones of your journey.

Are you saying that Camden Road - where Pre-pay is not valid for
journeys to and from - has gates (weren't any last time I was there
which was years ago, admitedly) with Oyster readers on thim?

Frankly I'm amazed that Silverlink has installed Oyster readers there
given that NR TOCs aren't part of the Oyster scheme and that other
Silverlink NR stations (near me anyway) don't have Oysters readers.


Cheers,

Jason.

Oyster bug
 

Are you saying that Camden Road - where Pre-pay is not valid for
journeys to and from - has gates (weren't any last time I was there
which was years ago, admitedly) with Oyster readers on thim?


Yes it does. I think Dalston Kingsland also has them.

Oyster bug
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:29:36 -0000, "Nicholas F Hodder"
wrote:

The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any light on this?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ing%20Standard

BBC1 "Breakfast" was going on about this too, quoting some rubbish by
the Liberal Democrat (ho ho) candidate for London Mayor Simon Hughes.

Looks very much like am attempt to get third-running Hughes's name
into the media - nothng more nothing less.


Cheers,

Jason.

Oyster bug
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:44:46 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , Nicholas F
Hodder writes
The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any light on this?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ing%20Standard


Of course, I don't know for certain that this is what the esteemed
Evening Standard is talking about but the majority of the problems I've
seen are due to people now realising that they're supposed to pay for
all the zones they've travelled in and are now getting hammered for
extensions across Zone 1

I assume you're suggesting that abuse of the system (ie travelling
from East London to West London with only a zone 2 and/or 3 ticket)
was widespread prior to Oyster?

This would explain the frequent tunnel ticket checks I used to
encounter at Green Park when changing from Victoria to Piccadilly.


Cheers,

Jason.

Oyster bug
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:17:24 +0000, wrote:

Jason wrote -
Are you saying that Camden Road - where Pre-pay is not valid for
journeys to and from - has gates (weren't any last time I was there
which was years ago, admitedly) with Oyster readers on thim?

Yes it does. I think Dalston Kingsland also has them.

Thanks - very interesting that another station where Oyster Pre-Pay
isn't (yet) valid has this too.

Wonder if this means Silverlink are planning to gate and Oyster the
North London Line? If so, hopefully this will lead to an increase in
NR routes where Oyster Pre-Pay is valid.


Cheers,

Jason.

Oyster bug
 

The Tube homepage has a response to the Standards Oyster article. Basically
saying that it was all incorrect.

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...es/0401/23.asp




"Richard J." wrote in message
...
Nicholas F Hodder wrote:
"Robin May" wrote in message
.4...

"Announcements are being made at stations telling passengers how to
use the cards in an effort to try to make them work."

That suggests to me it's probably something to do with pre-pay
deducting the maximum fare if passengers don't "touch the card on the
yellow readers at the start and end of your journey". I know that's
not a bug, that's just people using it incorrectly, but I am taking
into account the usual level of Evening Standard inaccuracy.

I thought so too when I read "Announcements are being made at stations
telling passengers how to use the cards in an effort to try to make
them work" but then I read "Prestige, the firm that runs the Oyster
card, is recalling some of them to discover how they can rectify the
bug, staff have told the MP". If they have to recall some of the
cards, then it does not sound like a passenger education issue.

Since the company is Transys, not Prestige, you can draw your own
conclusions about the accuracy of the rest of the story.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Oyster bug
 

"simon" wrote the following in:


The Tube homepage has a response to the Standards Oyster article.
Basically saying that it was all incorrect.

So the usual level of Evening Standard accuracy then.

--
message by Robin May, succeeding at failure.
Enjoy the Routemaster while you still can.

Crime is confusing.

Oyster bug
 

24 just indicates an unresolved journey or money to pay. That is not a bug.
The only bugs so far are the lack of training of staff and uneducated
customers.

If you watch some of the customers at finchley central where the gates are
permanentely open. They will touch the exit sensor on the way in.
At present this will mean they only pay £1.60 for thier journey but in the
future it would probably be more like £3.70.

I also heard that Capping will be introduced in February. The testers are
out and about now to see if it is working.

Oyster bug
 

Damn right about lack of staff training. The readers at Colindale were out a
couple of weeks ago, meaning I was getting unresolved journeys every day.
So, every day I was getting the staff at the station to "fix" it for me.
Normally this was okay apart from being tedious. However, one day when
coming back to Finchley Central on a one-off and they were absolutely sure
they should be charging me for Zone 5 - even though he'd agreed I'd not
strayed out of Zone 4.

I kept trying to tell him the readers were out of order in Colindale, to
which his repeated reply was: "Yes, I understand. Therefore, I should charge
you for the extra zone."

Maybe that's why there's a thick glass screen in front of them.

Alan



"Anon" wrote in message
...
24 just indicates an unresolved journey or money to pay. That is not a
bug.
The only bugs so far are the lack of training of staff and uneducated
customers.

If you watch some of the customers at finchley central where the gates are
permanentely open. They will touch the exit sensor on the way in.
At present this will mean they only pay £1.60 for thier journey but in the
future it would probably be more like £3.70.

I also heard that Capping will be introduced in February. The testers are
out and about now to see if it is working.

Oyster bug
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:05:50 +0000, Jason wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:17:24 +0000, wrote:

Jason wrote -
Are you saying that Camden Road - where Pre-pay is not valid for
journeys to and from - has gates (weren't any last time I was there
which was years ago, admitedly) with Oyster readers on thim?

Yes it does. I think Dalston Kingsland also has them.

Thanks - very interesting that another station where Oyster Pre-Pay
isn't (yet) valid has this too.

Wonder if this means Silverlink are planning to gate and Oyster the
North London Line? If so, hopefully this will lead to an increase in
NR routes where Oyster Pre-Pay is valid.

It is part of TfL's ticketing strategy and also part of promoting the
Overground network branding to negotiate with the TOCs to extend Oyster
Card acceptance and to implement Pre-Pay thus bringing fares on those
routes into line with LUL fares.

The North London Line is one of the named candidates for early
implementation.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster bug
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:29:36 -0000, "Nicholas F Hodder"
wrote:

The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any light on this?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ing%20Standard

As others have said it is a load of ill informed cobblers.

There are announcements being made to advise people using Pre-Pay to
validate in and out. That is simply reinforcing messages that are in
leaflets, on posters, in the Metro and on car cards inside the trains.
It is completely standard practice for the launch of any new product and
/ or technology.

If Simon Hughes knew anything about quite how long it has taken to
implement Oyster and the fact that has been far longer than other
smartcard schemes on urban transit systems then he might have kept his
gob shut. I really hate ignorant politicians.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster bug
 

In message , Jason
writes

I assume you're suggesting that abuse of the system (ie travelling
from East London to West London with only a zone 2 and/or 3 ticket)
was widespread prior to Oyster?

Yes, and still continued with Oyster until Pre Pay was enabled.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Oyster bug
 

If Oyster took so long to implement.

Why was the training of staff so bad. Why is information still being passed
through by word of mouth. Why are there changes to rules still happening.
Why is the publicity aimed towards customers not getting the message across.
Why did they not introduce pre-pay with capping at the same time. Who
thought that fare revision week was a good time to start pre-pay. How come a
large amount of stations still do not have adequate gate coverage or staff
for its implementation.

The idea was great but the implementation was not.

If you want to see how bad it gets look into the problems with Finchley
Central. A gateline only on one side of the station. Fare dodgers on the
other. A gateline that has stood open ever since it was installed. Everyone
including Bob Mason and Tim O'Toole not having the money or the ability to
offer a solution.

What is more amazing is that The Evening Standard has obviously been given a
back hander not to investigate it.

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:29:36 -0000, "Nicholas F Hodder"
wrote:

The Evening Standard are today reporting a bug with the Oyster card, but
they don't say what the bug is. Can anyone shed any light on this?


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ening%20Standa
rd

As others have said it is a load of ill informed cobblers.

There are announcements being made to advise people using Pre-Pay to
validate in and out. That is simply reinforcing messages that are in
leaflets, on posters, in the Metro and on car cards inside the trains.
It is completely standard practice for the launch of any new product and
/ or technology.

If Simon Hughes knew anything about quite how long it has taken to
implement Oyster and the fact that has been far longer than other
smartcard schemes on urban transit systems then he might have kept his
gob shut. I really hate ignorant politicians.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster bug
 

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:09:18 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

If Simon Hughes knew anything about quite how long it has taken to
implement Oyster and the fact that has been far longer than other
smartcard schemes on urban transit systems then he might have kept his
gob shut. I really hate ignorant politicians.

To my knowledge, at least he's not a *paid* politican yet - just a
mayoral candidate with little or no chance of becoming mayor.

Funny how both Steve Norris and Red Ken haven't said anything about
this issue...


Cheers,

Jason.

Oyster bug
 

Jason wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:09:18 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

If Simon Hughes knew anything about quite how long it has taken to
implement Oyster and the fact that has been far longer than other
smartcard schemes on urban transit systems then he might have kept
his gob shut. I really hate ignorant politicians.

To my knowledge, at least he's not a *paid* politican yet

Your knowledge of Simon Hughes is as deficient as his about Oyster. He's
been MP for North Southwark and Bermondsey for more than 20 years.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Oyster bug
 

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:57:44 -0000, "Anon"
wrote:

[oyster implementation and Simon Hughes ill informed comment]

If Oyster took so long to implement.

Why was the training of staff so bad. Why is information still being passed
through by word of mouth. Why are there changes to rules still happening.
Why is the publicity aimed towards customers not getting the message across.
Why did they not introduce pre-pay with capping at the same time. Who
thought that fare revision week was a good time to start pre-pay. How come a
large amount of stations still do not have adequate gate coverage or staff
for its implementation.

Do you know what - I have absolutely no idea as I wasn't on the project
team. Why don't you ask TfL for an answer to your questions? Especially
as you know the E Mail format to be able to ask polite questions to the
correct and sufficiently senior people in the organisation.

The idea was great but the implementation was not.

If you want to see how bad it gets look into the problems with Finchley
Central. A gateline only on one side of the station. Fare dodgers on the
other. A gateline that has stood open ever since it was installed. Everyone
including Bob Mason and Tim O'Toole not having the money or the ability to
offer a solution.

Well we did do a design that provided for gates at both ends - the
ticket hall and the end of the bridge. I can vividly remember the site
meeting.

The following is from memory and what others have told me - so if it's
wrong then don't come back and flame me.

Finchley Central has a number of issues - a huge gas pipe (later
discovered) under the proposed location for the bridge ticket gates, the
inability to provide for a covered assistance point at that location. A
ticket hall that is really too small for the volume of passengers and I
understand staff concerns over health and safety issues. Oh and the
local populace have a ferocious reputation when it comes to trying to
shut the bridge exit / entrance point. It has been attempted many times
in order to stop fare evasion and it has proved impossible to achieve.
In addition you would overload the ticket hall which is already
inadequate.

The answer - and this is my guess - is to rebuild the whole damn place.
There is no money to do that given the far more pressing needs of other
locations on the network where congestion relief benefits would be far
higher.

What is more amazing is that The Evening Standard has obviously been given a
back hander not to investigate it.

Care to substantiate that potentially very serious accusation? If you
can't then don't fling wild accusations around - it just makes you look
daft.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster bug
 

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:25:13 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Jason wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:09:18 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

If Simon Hughes knew anything about quite how long it has taken to
implement Oyster and the fact that has been far longer than other
smartcard schemes on urban transit systems then he might have kept
his gob shut. I really hate ignorant politicians.

To my knowledge, at least he's not a *paid* politican yet

Your knowledge of Simon Hughes is as deficient as his about Oyster. He's
been MP for North Southwark and Bermondsey for more than 20 years.

One learns something new every day - and I stand corrected!

At least I only made a fool of myself on Usnet, rather than in the
national media! :-)


Cheers,

Jason.

Oyster bug
 

I asked you the questions as you were singing the praises of how long it had
taken to implement and being disparaging about a MP's. attempt to put things
into the public arena.

Usually an outlandish comment normally inaccurate gets the ball rolling.
That's politics.

I apologise if you are upset that a newspaper might take back handers. It is
obvious I do not have any proof.

Yours memory serves you well about Finchley Centrals gateline what you say
is correct. It is true a gas pipe was discovered but as there is a gas meter
on that side I would have thought its discovery should have been sooner
rather than later.

So one last question that maybe you can answer. With all the problems
discovered at the planning stage why did they put a gateline in that would
never be used.

P.S. You have called me an idiot twice on this forum. This is a place to
voice opinion and create discussion so I like to think we all come across as
idiots or why else would we be asking questions.


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:57:44 -0000, "Anon"
wrote:

[oyster implementation and Simon Hughes ill informed comment]

If Oyster took so long to implement.

Why was the training of staff so bad. Why is information still being
passed
through by word of mouth. Why are there changes to rules still happening.
Why is the publicity aimed towards customers not getting the message
across.
Why did they not introduce pre-pay with capping at the same time. Who
thought that fare revision week was a good time to start pre-pay. How
come a
large amount of stations still do not have adequate gate coverage or
staff
for its implementation.

Do you know what - I have absolutely no idea as I wasn't on the project
team. Why don't you ask TfL for an answer to your questions? Especially
as you know the E Mail format to be able to ask polite questions to the
correct and sufficiently senior people in the organisation.

The idea was great but the implementation was not.

If you want to see how bad it gets look into the problems with Finchley
Central. A gateline only on one side of the station. Fare dodgers on the
other. A gateline that has stood open ever since it was installed.
Everyone
including Bob Mason and Tim O'Toole not having the money or the ability
to
offer a solution.

Well we did do a design that provided for gates at both ends - the
ticket hall and the end of the bridge. I can vividly remember the site
meeting.

The following is from memory and what others have told me - so if it's
wrong then don't come back and flame me.

Finchley Central has a number of issues - a huge gas pipe (later
discovered) under the proposed location for the bridge ticket gates, the
inability to provide for a covered assistance point at that location. A
ticket hall that is really too small for the volume of passengers and I
understand staff concerns over health and safety issues. Oh and the
local populace have a ferocious reputation when it comes to trying to
shut the bridge exit / entrance point. It has been attempted many times
in order to stop fare evasion and it has proved impossible to achieve.
In addition you would overload the ticket hall which is already
inadequate.

The answer - and this is my guess - is to rebuild the whole damn place.
There is no money to do that given the far more pressing needs of other
locations on the network where congestion relief benefits would be far
higher.

What is more amazing is that The Evening Standard has obviously been
given a
back hander not to investigate it.

Care to substantiate that potentially very serious accusation? If you
can't then don't fling wild accusations around - it just makes you look
daft.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!