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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20234125
Quote: Fares across London's transport network will go up by 4.2% from January, mayor Boris Johnson has announced. The rise means a single bus fare on Oyster pay-as-you-go will be £1.40, up by 5p, while a zone 1 Tube journey will cost £2.10, an increase of 10p. The increase, described by the mayor as "balanced", is 1% above the Retail Prices Index (RPI) inflation, similar to the increase seen in train fares. Cycle hire cost also doubled with an annual membership rising to £90. In October, the government announced that from January the average fares on mainline trains will rise by 4.2% rather than 6.2%. The RPI plus 1% formula used for mainline trains is also expected to apply for London's transport network for the next two years. -- End quote So Boris Bike users see a much larger increase than LU and bus users -- is the Barclays sponsorship being cut? |
Quote:
good money to help this Boris vanity project? Boris may be a cyclist and keen to misuse his power indulging his prejudice, but most senior people in local authorities are not cyclists, least of all in the outer suburbs. |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 07/11/2012 15:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
I don't particularly understand why the cycle hire scheme charges are going up quite so much. There wasn't an increase last year plus the scheme area (and therefore costs) has increased and will increase again next year. Lots of people are referring to the Barclays sponsorship issue but it was never going to be the case that Barclays contributed and kept contributing to expand the scheme. The scheme sucks up public money and TfL admitted a few months back that it had no idea as to when the scheme would break even. Expansion to new boroughs only happens if the boroughs in question fork out millions of pounds as a contribution. There was some fuss a while back about Boris Bike usage being dominated by the kind of people who are found in central London, need to get around that area and who are able to use conventional bikes. Apparently this was seen as a Bad Thing by some people. Perhaps such transport users are seen as being low down the food chain, and able to be charged more without too much outrage? Plus they are cyclists, and 110% of cyclists blah rant rant blah rant rant rant blah (cont'd letters page of any local newspaper). As for the fares, I'm intrigued by this: http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/defau...d)%20PDF. pdf They apparently consider the impact of fares on the "LGB community". Do people with G-scale model railways in their gardens really make much difference...? -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In message , at
18:30:09 on Wed, 7 Nov 2012, Arthur Figgis remarked: There was some fuss a while back about Boris Bike usage being dominated by the kind of people who are found in central London, need to get around that area and who are able to use conventional bikes. I've never stumbled over a Boris-Bike rank on my various recent trips to London[1], nor of course would I impose a bike on my fellow travellers on the train to London. [1] Whereas I did see evidence of a similar initiative in Brussels. -- Roland Perry |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 07/11/2012 19:16, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 18:30:09 on Wed, 7 Nov 2012, Arthur Figgis remarked: There was some fuss a while back about Boris Bike usage being dominated by the kind of people who are found in central London, need to get around that area and who are able to use conventional bikes. I've never stumbled over a Boris-Bike rank on my various recent trips to London[1], nor of course would I impose a bike on my fellow travellers on the train to London. Official (TfL) live map of docking stations (with availability): https://web.barclayscyclehire.tfl.gov.uk/maps Unofficial live map: http://cyclehire.eu/main/ PDF map of current docking station locations: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/roadusers/cycle-hire-phase-2-map.pdf |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 07/11/2012 19:16, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:30:09 on Wed, 7 Nov 2012, Arthur Figgis remarked: There was some fuss a while back about Boris Bike usage being dominated by the kind of people who are found in central London, need to get around that area and who are able to use conventional bikes. I've never stumbled over a Boris-Bike rank on my various recent trips to London[1], They aren't always particularly easy to find without a (online-)map, especially near stations. As well as the problems of physically locating them somewhere where people won't literally stumble over them, I assume this is at least partly a legacy of the attempt to discourage the idea of them being for daily London Terminal - office - London Terminal commutes. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 07/11/2012 19:49, Paul Corfield wrote:
Clearly the big gripe is that ever increasing fares become progressively more unaffordable for people on low or fixed incomes and that the Mayor hasn't done anything about it. I doubt this assessment will stave off all the questions given the typical reaction from various quarters today. However it does get the Mayor off the hook of not having done the assessment at all. Although a fair number of people on low or fixed incomes don't directly pay the fares (eg pensioners) or might not travel as much (would there be much point in an non-working person travelling in the morning peak every weekday?). A few weeks ago I got a bus somewhere in darkest Sussex. It was much more expensive than a London bus, but only one other passenger actually paid a fare. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 07/11/2012 20:03, Arthur Figgis wrote: On 07/11/2012 19:49, Paul Corfield wrote: Clearly the big gripe is that ever increasing fares become progressively more unaffordable for people on low or fixed incomes and that the Mayor hasn't done anything about it. I doubt this assessment will stave off all the questions given the typical reaction from various quarters today. However it does get the Mayor off the hook of not having done the assessment at all. Although a fair number of people on low or fixed incomes don't directly pay the fares (eg pensioners) or might not travel as much (would there be much point in an non-working person travelling in the morning peak every weekday?). Though people on low incomes aren't necessarily non-working - I appreciate you allowed for that, but nonetheless it's worth emphasising anyway. I overheard a conversation on the train the other day where the two participants seemed to wildly overestimate the pay of those in lower income brackets. (I await a Figgis demolition of my fussy sentence!) A few weeks ago I got a bus somewhere in darkest Sussex. It was much more expensive than a London bus, but only one other passenger actually paid a fare. One of the negative outcomes of the ENCTS (aka the older folks freebie bus pass) seems to have been bus operators pushing up single fares, as (AIUI) their recompense for ENCTS users is based on a percentage of said fares. |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
I've never stumbled over a Boris-Bike rank on my various recent trips to London[1], nor of course would I impose a bike on my fellow travellers on the train to London. I've nearly stumbled over the odd cyclist though. The place has gone mad - young eco warriors, cycling everywhere, convinced they're saving the planet, though clearly not themselves for a ripe old age. If they don't end up under a bus the fumes, worthy of any a sixty a day smoker, will get them first and you just know they're all non- smokers (why?) as well. Mad as a box of frogs, the lot of them, and surely absolute proof that a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 07/11/2012 20:18, allantracy wrote:
The place has gone mad - young eco warriors, cycling everywhere, convinced they're saving the planet, though clearly not themselves for a ripe old age. How do you they haven't just decided it is the best way of doing a particular journey in a way which suits them? I don't care about saving the whales, but a bike offers more frequent departure opportunities than Southern. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
allantracy wrote:
I've never stumbled over a Boris-Bike rank on my various recent trips to London[1], nor of course would I impose a bike on my fellow travellers on the train to London. I've nearly stumbled over the odd cyclist though. The place has gone mad - young eco warriors, cycling everywhere, convinced they're saving the planet, though clearly not themselves for a ripe old age. If they don't end up under a bus the fumes, worthy of any a sixty a day smoker, will get them first and you just know they're all non- smokers (why?) as well. Mad as a box of frogs, the lot of them, and surely absolute proof that a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. The congestion charge in no way deters me from driving into London but the raised levels of stress caused by the idiot kamikaze cyclists does. |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 07/11/2012 20:14, Mizter T wrote:
On 07/11/2012 20:03, Arthur Figgis wrote: On 07/11/2012 19:49, Paul Corfield wrote: Clearly the big gripe is that ever increasing fares become progressively more unaffordable for people on low or fixed incomes and that the Mayor hasn't done anything about it. I doubt this assessment will stave off all the questions given the typical reaction from various quarters today. However it does get the Mayor off the hook of not having done the assessment at all. Although a fair number of people on low or fixed incomes don't directly pay the fares (eg pensioners) or might not travel as much (would there be much point in an non-working person travelling in the morning peak every weekday?). Though people on low incomes aren't necessarily non-working - I appreciate you allowed for that, but nonetheless it's worth emphasising anyway. I overheard a conversation on the train the other day where the two participants seemed to wildly overestimate the pay of those in lower income brackets. (I await a Figgis demolition of my fussy sentence!) Definitions are always a problem, from either end, and I think it helps to spell out what is meant because of the pensioner/housebound/etc issue, plus working usually paying more than not working. Some of my mates up north assume that almost all Londoners are in abject poverty - at home people aspire to a decent job so that they won't have to live in a flat or overlooking old docks. A few weeks ago I got a bus somewhere in darkest Sussex. It was much more expensive than a London bus, but only one other passenger actually paid a fare. One of the negative outcomes of the ENCTS (aka the older folks freebie bus pass) seems to have been bus operators pushing up single fares, as (AIUI) their recompense for ENCTS users is based on a percentage of said fares. It does look like it. Or introducing flat fares, at an upper end. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In message of Wed, 7 Nov 2012 19:23:38 in
uk.railway, Mizter T writes On 07/11/2012 19:16, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 18:30:09 on Wed, 7 Nov 2012, Arthur Figgis remarked: There was some fuss a while back about Boris Bike usage being dominated by the kind of people who are found in central London, need to get around that area and who are able to use conventional bikes. I've never stumbled over a Boris-Bike rank on my various recent trips to London[1], nor of course would I impose a bike on my fellow travellers on the train to London. Official (TfL) live map of docking stations (with availability): https://web.barclayscyclehire.tfl.gov.uk/maps Unofficial live map: http://cyclehire.eu/main/ There is also http://bikes.oobrien.com/london/. Its use of colour gives a good flavour of the distribution of empty and full stations. On weekdays, the centre tends to be empty until about 0700 and full from about 0900 and again empty from about 1900. Bike shuffling by Barclays Cycle Hire seems to have little effect. PDF map of current docking station locations: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/roadusers/cycle-hire-phase-2-map.pdf I find that many journeys between an intended origin destination station pair are problematic. Either there is no bike to start the trip or no empty slot to drop it. In July, when I last looked, the local maps at each station did not reliably show local stations. (I was told the status of local stations, but not told how to find them.) It was intended to fix the maps by the end of August. I have not checked this has been done. Intelligent phone applications probably address this problem. e.g. the map at "Bayswater Road, Hyde Park" did not show "Lancaster Gate, Bayswater" and "Kensington Gore, Knightsbridge" did not show "Prince Consort Road, Knightsbridge". [I went between Royal Albert Hall Prom concerts and Lancaster Gate Station.] There is also a problem that the system sometimes ignores attempts to dock a particular bike. A "hook" on the bike does not fit an "eye" on a dock. I can coax a match, now I understand the problem. I find a need to feed back on about half my hires. The most common fault is a dead empty slot. I will probably pay 90UKP for a year. I would probably not pay 250. Casual usage is very tedious to drive and I can't recommend it. -- Walter Briscoe |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 07/11/2012 17:17, Robin9 wrote: Paul Corfield;133861 Wrote: On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 11:40:34 +0000, Recliner wrote: - From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20234125 Quote: Fares across London's transport network will go up by 4.2% from January, mayor Boris Johnson has announced. The rise means a single bus fare on Oyster pay-as-you-go will be £1.40, up by 5p, while a zone 1 Tube journey will cost £2.10, an increase of 10p. The increase, described by the mayor as "balanced", is 1% above the Retail Prices Index (RPI) inflation, similar to the increase seen in train fares. Cycle hire cost also doubled with an annual membership rising to £90. In October, the government announced that from January the average fares on mainline trains will rise by 4.2% rather than 6.2%. The RPI plus 1% formula used for mainline trains is also expected to apply for London's transport network for the next two years. -- End quote So Boris Bike users see a much larger increase than LU and bus users -- is the Barclays sponsorship being cut?- [x posted to uk.railway] The full detail of the fares revision, but not the cycle hire changes, is in the Mayoral Decision document. http://tinyurl.com/c8esof8 The TfL press release confirms that, after a long period of silence, that PAYG is to be extended outside Greater London to Shenfield and Broxbourne. This delivers the Greater Anglia franchise commitment. I imagine that the DfT did this through gritted teeth given their refusal to extend Oyster to other places. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/26143.aspx Interestingly the above PR only refers to Broxbourne as the limit of the West Anglia PAYG scheme. When the GA franchise award was announced the PAYG scheme was going to run to Hertford East (see below). I wonder what the true position is? http://tinyurl.com/bb7gp52 The only other interesting aspect of the fares revision is the re-emergence of a price difference between One Day Travelcards and the daily cap. Daily caps are capped at 2012 levels whereas paper one day tickets are increased. Apparently this is to "reflect the increaased costs of issuing paper tickets". I wonder whether this is a pointer as to possible conclusions in the DfT fares review and a desire to push ITSO standard smartcards. I don't particularly understand why the cycle hire scheme charges are going up quite so much. There wasn't an increase last year plus the scheme area (and therefore costs) has increased and will increase again next year. Lots of people are referring to the Barclays sponsorship issue but it was never going to be the case that Barclays contributed and kept contributing to expand the scheme. The scheme sucks up public money and TfL admitted a few months back that it had no idea as to when the scheme would break even. Expansion to new boroughs only happens if the boroughs in question fork out millions of pounds as a contribution. As every local authority is strapped for cash, how likely are they to pay good money to help this Boris vanity project? Boris may be a cyclist and keen to misuse his power indulging his prejudice, but most senior people in local authorities are not cyclists, least of all in the outer suburbs. One retort to "misuse his power indulging his prejudice" might be 'doing what he said he'd do in his manifesto'... Also, "most senior people in local authorities are not cyclists" - do you mean councillors or officials? Also, define a "cyclist". I'd posit a fair few do ride a bike on occasion. And if someone were say not to cycle with great frequency, that needn't inherently mean that they're indisposed to the general cause. Anyhow, there's no signs that the scheme is about to arrive in the outer boroughs. Inner boroughs generally seem keen on the concept in principle (poss. less so when the chequebook is required). |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote: Well the evidence seems to be that Local Authorities are finding the cash. I may be wrong but I believe some of them have spent some of the monies that TfL allocate for local transport schemes on the cycle hire scheme so this is not a direct call on local council tax payers. There is no shortage of inner boroughs wanting the scheme to reach them - hence Wandsworth, Hammersmith & Fulham and parts of Lambeth and Kensington & Chelsea being in the next phase. This TfL paper gives more detail. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...Cycle-Hire-Exp ansion.pdf Typical! The scheme might come to Putney just as I lose my lifelong connection with the place! -- Colin Rosenstiel |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\11\08 00:53, wrote: One big question is how to translate the ubiquitous (by UK standards) cycling in a place like Cambridge across the country. Get rid of all the hills. Or have Chinese-style electric bikes. I found their rapid, but silent, progress disconcerting -- as a pedestrian in China you really have to watch out for them. |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 2012\11\08 02:29, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: On 2012\11\08 00:53, wrote: One big question is how to translate the ubiquitous (by UK standards) cycling in a place like Cambridge across the country. Get rid of all the hills. Or have Chinese-style electric bikes. I found their rapid, but silent, progress disconcerting -- as a pedestrian in China you really have to watch out for them. Aren't ordinary push-bikes rapid but silent? |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2012\11\08 02:29, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 2012\11\08 00:53, wrote: One big question is how to translate the ubiquitous (by UK standards) cycling in a place like Cambridge across the country. Get rid of all the hills. Or have Chinese-style electric bikes. I found their rapid, but silent, progress disconcerting -- as a pedestrian in China you really have to watch out for them. Aren't ordinary push-bikes rapid but silent? No, just silent. |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In message , at 19:50:47 on
Wed, 7 Nov 2012, Paul Corfield remarked: I've never stumbled over a Boris-Bike rank on my various recent trips to London[1], nor of course would I impose a bike on my fellow travellers on the train to London. Goodness - never? Not on my recent trips, which have included quite large areas between Euston, Kings Cross and Oxford Street. They were deliberately located away from Main Line stations so that will explain why you might not have immediately seen one at St Pancras. I use Kings Cross these days. However I fall across the things all over Zone 1. Looking at the map just now, I see there's a bike-rank at Warren St tube Station, but I can honestly say it didn't register. Will look more closely next time I'm there. What I did see, was a pair of Electric Car charging points near Russell Square, so I'm not entirely going around with my eyes closed! ps As an out-of-towner who might be expected to use the Boris Bikes instead of cluttering up a train, not having them at major railway stations seems bizarre. If it's an issue of rationing them, then simply tweak the charging system so that those ranks can only be used by someone (say) once a week. -- Roland Perry |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 2012\11\08 02:51, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: On 2012\11\08 02:29, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 2012\11\08 00:53, wrote: One big question is how to translate the ubiquitous (by UK standards) cycling in a place like Cambridge across the country. Get rid of all the hills. Or have Chinese-style electric bikes. I found their rapid, but silent, progress disconcerting -- as a pedestrian in China you really have to watch out for them. Aren't ordinary push-bikes rapid but silent? No, just silent. How fast are these electric bikes? |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In message , at
20:55:34 on Wed, 7 Nov 2012, Arthur Figgis remarked: Some of my mates up north assume that almost all Londoners are in abject poverty - at home people aspire to a decent job so that they won't have to live in a flat or overlooking old docks. Or in a flat overlooking old docks. -- Roland Perry |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
Call me a cynic, but why am I not surprised that this announcement was
made the day the news was (predictably) full of the US election results? Peter |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
Roland Perry wrote:
I've never stumbled over a Boris-Bike rank on my various recent trips to London[1], You can't have looked very hard, then. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply. |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 18:53:48 on Wed, 7 Nov 2012, remarked: One big question is how to translate the ubiquitous (by UK standards) cycling in a place like Cambridge across the country. Making the rest of the country dryer and flatter would be a good start. Not necessary. Plenty of places as dry and flat as Cambridge have a fraction of the cycling. Why? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 15:36:47 on Wed, 7 Nov 2012, remarked: Indeed. I do sometimes wonder about Roland! The nearest one to King's Cross and St Pancras isn't exactly far away or non-obvious either. If it's not on the road between the two stations (a rather obvious place to put it) then I wouldn't see it because I'm usually departing by tube. However, I'm more likely to be on foot near Euston, so will keep a better lookout next time I'm there. It's across the Euston Road in Belgrove Street. Not obvious if leaving the area by tube, I accept, but more apparent if catching a bus. It's nearly empty as I write. I also see it is the top docking station by avg hires per day since install. There are several docking stations nearer to Euston. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In message
. net, at 08:58:54 on Thu, 8 Nov 2012, Neil Williams remarked: I've never stumbled over a Boris-Bike rank on my various recent trips to London[1], You can't have looked very hard, then. I wasn't looking for them, and have seen similar ranks (that I also wasn't looking for) in other cities. -- Roland Perry |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 03:55:21 on Thu, 8 Nov 2012, remarked: One big question is how to translate the ubiquitous (by UK standards) cycling in a place like Cambridge across the country. Making the rest of the country dryer and flatter would be a good start. Not necessary. Plenty of places as dry and flat as Cambridge have a fraction of the cycling. Why? Lack of Oxbridge-style Universities with lots of centrally accommodated students who are banned from car use, college servants on low incomes, and a virtually non-existent bus service for most intra-Uni journeys. Oxford students aren't banned from car use. Anyway, many places had similar cycling levels to Cambridge but declined while we didn't. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On 08/11/2012 08:46, peter wrote: Call me a cynic, but why am I not surprised that this announcement was made the day the news was (predictably) full of the US election results? The fares increase was the top story on news bulletins on both BBC London and LBC local radio yesterday evening (replete with spectacularly predictable vox-pops of course). Didn't watch the local tv news programmes but I'd imagine it got top billing yesterday. But yes, I can well imagine the timing of the announcement was a bit of news management. C'est la vie. |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:01:32 +0000
Mizter T wrote: But yes, I can well imagine the timing of the announcement was a bit of news management. C'est la vie. Poor old Boris, the media didn't ignore it as he'd hoped. Steven Hendy was dragged onto LBC yesterday to justify it but he ended up just getting tied in knots by Nick Ferrari. If he hadn't been such an obvious lacky I might have felt sorry for him. B2003 |
London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
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London bus and Tube fares go up 4.2% from January
In message of Thu, 8 Nov
2012 03:55:21 in uk.transport.london, writes [snip] It's across the Euston Road in Belgrove Street. Not obvious if leaving the area by tube, I accept, but more apparent if catching a bus. It's nearly empty as I write. I also see it is the top docking station by avg hires per day since install. [snip] Colin, Where do you find such statistics? -- Walter Briscoe |
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