Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

Have I jinxed the railway? Having firstly broken an Overground 172
(see previous post) I later witnessed the signaling balls up of the
year on my way home.

Arrived at London Bridge (low level) to switch to an FCC Thameslink on
the high level at 20:30. I checked the times prior and I should of had
a comfortable 15 minute connection between arriving at LB from my SN
service and the 20:45 FCC service.

As I walked down from the subway to P6 for my FCC service I noticed
two SE trains waiting outside London Bridge for a platform; one was a
Metro (465) service and the other a Mainline (375) service. Strangely,
I began to notice them both moving towards the station in sync and
upon closer inspection the signaler had set the Mainline in to the
booked P6 and the Metro bi-directionally in to P5 which is normally
used exclusively by down (country) FCC Brighton and SE Hastings/
Tunbridge/Ramsgate trains. Common sense? Yes but not in this
instance...

To clear P5 immediately for trains in the opposite direction the
signaler had set the road for the Metro to go ahead of the Mainline in
P6 in towards Charing Cross. Now here comes the balls up... That Metro
was supposed to *terminate* at London Bridge in P3! So, there's now a
Metro in P5 which is supposed to terminate but has mistakenly been
given the road towards CX and a Mainline in P6 genuinely headed for CX
that now has to wait for the signal on P5 to be set back before it can
proceed towards Borough Market Junction and CX. Someone's dropped a
humongous testicle.

The Metro terminator formed the 20:05 back to Dartford but the PIS
screens hadn't updated and still show it as the 19:57 FCC to Brighton!
(see mobile pic below). Lots of passengers running down the stairs in
a hurry believing this SE train to Dartford is in fact an FCC train to
Brighton. Fair play on the dispatch staff who shouted to those who
boarded that it wasn't the right train.

http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/...ndonbridge.jpg

Now there's a second problem! An announcement from the station states
the signaler cannot cancel the route for the P5 terminator because the
points have now stuck at the London-end of London Bridge, meaning the
Mainline in P6 along with both my FCC train and about 3 other SE
services behind, plus all services the London-end of LB are all now
stuck with a points failure. Talk about a bad day?

The driver of the Dartford terminator was changing ends and I asked
what happened and he informed me the signaler mistakenly thought he
was a CX train and didn't realise he was in fact a terminator supposed
to go in P3. It's possible to reverse in P5 and the driver correctly
assumed it was a mere platform alteration. It was only when the signal
pulled off towards Charing Cross did he realise the signaler had made
a mistake.

Eventually after 15 minutes of nothingness, the points at the London-
end of LB are finally reset and allowing the Mainline in P6, the
following other SE trains and my FCC train, plus all down (country)
traffic to begin flowing again. My booked 19:45 to Bedford didn't
arrive until almost 20:15 and had been sitting outside LB for
approximately 25 minutes.

All that chaos caused by the one mistake of a mere platform change.

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

Edit. Opening paragraph should be arriving at LB at 19:30 and catching
19:45 FCC service, not an hour later!

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On 18/11/2012 00:01, djxc6 wrote:
Edit. Opening paragraph should be arriving at LB at 19:30 and catching
19:45 FCC service, not an hour later!

Further edit, it is "should HAVE" *not* "should OF"

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On Nov 18, 9:29*am, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 18/11/2012 00:01, djxc6 wrote:

Edit. Opening paragraph should be arriving at LB at 19:30 and catching
19:45 FCC service, not an hour later!

Further edit, it is "should HAVE" **not* "should OF"

Signalling has two ls.

Quintishill was a more substantial signalling balls up.

ian

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On 18/11/2012 13:51, ian batten wrote:
On Nov 18, 9:29 am, Graeme wrote:
On 18/11/2012 00:01, djxc6 wrote:

Edit. Opening paragraph should be arriving at LB at 19:30 and catching
19:45 FCC service, not an hour later!

Further edit, it is "should HAVE" *not* "should OF"

Signalling has two ls.

Quintishill was a more substantial signalling balls up.


And has an "n" :-)


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On 18/11/2012 13:55, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 18/11/2012 13:51, ian batten wrote:
On Nov 18, 9:29 am, Graeme wrote:
On 18/11/2012 00:01, djxc6 wrote:

Edit. Opening paragraph should be arriving at LB at 19:30 and catching
19:45 FCC service, not an hour later!

Further edit, it is "should HAVE" *not* "should OF"

Signalling has two ls.

Quintishill was a more substantial signalling balls up.


And has an "n" :-)

Two...
--
Phil Cook

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On 18/11/2012 14:19, Phil Cook wrote:
On 18/11/2012 13:55, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 18/11/2012 13:51, ian batten wrote:
On Nov 18, 9:29 am, Graeme wrote:
On 18/11/2012 00:01, djxc6 wrote:

Edit. Opening paragraph should be arriving at LB at 19:30 and catching
19:45 FCC service, not an hour later!

Further edit, it is "should HAVE" *not* "should OF"

Signalling has two ls.

Quintishill was a more substantial signalling balls up.


And has an "n" :-)

Two...

Doh!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message ...

Further edit, it is "should HAVE" *not* "should OF"


...... definitely not the latter but the former could also be "should've".
;-)

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On Nov 17, 11:51*pm, djxc6 wrote:

Harldy and "ultimate" problem.

Actually one of the *ultimate* signalling difficulties - if not the UK
all time ultimate difficulty - would occur about 1 km to the west of
London Bridge where it is possible to grid lock Borough Market
Junction triangle with three 12car trains in the wrong place ... the
layout is such that the rear of each one of the three trains obstructs
the route of another ... and it is not just the route is locked but
track unoccupied, it is the rear of the train is literally on the
tracks in front of another.

--
Nick

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On Nov 17, 11:51*pm, djxc6 wrote:


Hardly an "ultimate" problem.

Actually one of the *ultimate* signalling difficulties - if not the
UK all time ultimate difficulty - would occur about 1 km to the west
of London Bridge where it is possible to grid lock Borough Market
Junction triangle with three 12car trains in the wrong place ... the
layout is such that the rear of each one of the three trains obstructs
the route of another ... and it is not just the route is locked but
track unoccupied, it is the rear of the train is literally on the
tracks in front of another.

--
Nick

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

"D7666" wrote in message
...

Actually one of the *ultimate* signalling difficulties - if not the UK
all time ultimate difficulty - would occur about 1 km to the west of
London Bridge where it is possible to grid lock Borough Market
Junction triangle with three 12car trains in the wrong place ... the
layout is such that the rear of each one of the three trains obstructs
the route of another ... and it is not just the route is locked but
track unoccupied, it is the rear of the train is literally on the
tracks in front of another.

No longer possible. There is no pointwork at Borough Market Junction any
more - London Bridge platforms 4, 5, and 6 and the Up Passenger Loop only
lead to/from Metropolitan Junction (thence Charing Cross or Blackfriars)
while platforms 1, 2, and 3 only lead to Cannon Street.

Peter

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On Nov 18, 10:04*pm, "Peter Masson"
wrote:
"D7666" *wrote in message

...

Actually one of the *ultimate* signalling difficulties - if not the UK
all time ultimate difficulty - *would occur about 1 km to the west of
London Bridge where it is possible to grid lock Borough Market
Junction triangle with three 12car trains in the wrong place ... the
layout is such that the rear of each one of the three trains obstructs
the route of another ... and it is not just the route is locked but
track unoccupied, it is the rear of the train is literally on the
tracks in front of another.

No longer possible. There is no pointwork at Borough Market Junction any
more - London Bridge platforms 4, 5, and 6 and the Up Passenger Loop only
lead to/from Metropolitan Junction (thence Charing Cross or Blackfriars)
while platforms 1, 2, and 3 only lead to Cannon Street.

Peter

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On Nov 18, 10:04*pm, "Peter Masson"
wrote:
"D7666" *wrote in message

...

Actually one of the *ultimate* signalling difficulties - if not the UK
all time ultimate difficulty - *would occur about 1 km to the west of
London Bridge where it is possible to grid lock Borough Market
Junction triangle with three 12car trains in the wrong place ... the
layout is such that the rear of each one of the three trains obstructs
the route of another ... and it is not just the route is locked but
track unoccupied, it is the rear of the train is literally on the
tracks in front of another.

No longer possible. There is no pointwork at Borough Market Junction any
more - London Bridge platforms 4, 5, and 6 and the Up Passenger Loop only
lead to/from Metropolitan Junction (thence Charing Cross or Blackfriars)
while platforms 1, 2, and 3 only lead to Cannon Street.

I admit to not studying the current layout ... but I am under the
impression it is still possible to create a gridlock somewhere around
there.

--
Nick

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On Nov 18, 10:39*pm, D7666 wrote:

No longer possible. There is no pointwork at Borough Market Junction any
more - London Bridge platforms 4, 5, and 6 and the Up Passenger Loop only
lead to/from Metropolitan Junction (thence Charing Cross or Blackfriars)
while platforms 1, 2, and 3 only lead to Cannon Street.

I admit to not studying the current layout ... but I am under the
impression it is still possible to create a gridlock somewhere around
there.

Cambria / Loughborough / CanterburyRd Jn.s ?

I'm sure its got something to do with ECS moves on one side of the
triangle, perhaps I was thinking of the west side of the Borough
market triangle which is ECS only instead of the west side of that
one, which is also ECS only, and both curves take 12car ECS (actually
the same ECS trains).

--
Nick

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On Nov 18, 10:51*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Nov 18, 10:39*pm, D7666 wrote:

No longer possible. There is no pointwork at Borough Market Junction any
more - London Bridge platforms 4, 5, and 6 and the Up Passenger Loop only
lead to/from Metropolitan Junction (thence Charing Cross or Blackfriars)
while platforms 1, 2, and 3 only lead to Cannon Street.
I admit to not studying the current layout ... but I am under the
impression it is still possible to create a gridlock somewhere around
there.

Cambria / Loughborough / CanterburyRd Jn.s ?

I'm sure its got something to do with ECS moves on one side of the
triangle, perhaps I was thinking of the west side of the Borough
market triangle which is ECS only instead of the west side of that
one, which is also ECS only, and both curves take 12car ECS (actually
the same ECS trains).



I'm still trawling the grey cells for this, I'm sure there is one in
the south eastern area and it involves ECS and/or 12car trains.

Borough Market is clearly wrong, not sure what brain glitch caused me
to write that.

--
Nick

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

On Nov 18, 11:39*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Nov 18, 10:04*pm, "Peter Masson"





wrote:
"D7666" *wrote in message

...

Actually one of the *ultimate* signalling difficulties - if not the UK
all time ultimate difficulty - *would occur about 1 km to the west of
London Bridge where it is possible to grid lock Borough Market
Junction triangle with three 12car trains in the wrong place ... the
layout is such that the rear of each one of the three trains obstructs
the route of another ... and it is not just the route is locked but
track unoccupied, it is the rear of the train is literally on the
tracks in front of another.

No longer possible. There is no pointwork at Borough Market Junction any
more - London Bridge platforms 4, 5, and 6 and the Up Passenger Loop only
lead to/from Metropolitan Junction (thence Charing Cross or Blackfriars)
while platforms 1, 2, and 3 only lead to Cannon Street.

I admit to not studying the current layout ... but I am under the
impression it is still possible to create a gridlock somewhere around
there.

I'm tempted to suggest that gridlock is the routine state of the lines
around that part of the world every morning peak, but I know that's
not quite what you had in mind.

Robin

Ultimate signaling balls up at London Bridge
 

"D7666" wrote in message
...
On Nov 18, 10:51 pm, D7666 wrote:
On Nov 18, 10:39 pm, D7666 wrote:

No longer possible. There is no pointwork at Borough Market Junction
any
more - London Bridge platforms 4, 5, and 6 and the Up Passenger Loop
only
lead to/from Metropolitan Junction (thence Charing Cross or
Blackfriars)
while platforms 1, 2, and 3 only lead to Cannon Street.
I admit to not studying the current layout ... but I am under the
impression it is still possible to create a gridlock somewhere around
there.

Cambria / Loughborough / CanterburyRd Jn.s ?

I'm sure its got something to do with ECS moves on one side of the
triangle, perhaps I was thinking of the west side of the Borough
market triangle which is ECS only instead of the west side of that
one, which is also ECS only, and both curves take 12car ECS (actually
the same ECS trains).



I'm still trawling the grey cells for this, I'm sure there is one in
the south eastern area and it involves ECS and/or 12car trains.

Borough Market is clearly wrong, not sure what brain glitch caused me
to write that.

--
Nick

Streatham Junction South was the easiest place for a signaller to lock
themself up with the Vic to LB rounders via Wimbledon.