On 02/12/2012 19:31, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 2 Dec 2012 10:16:53 +0000, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

In message of Sun, 2 Dec
2012 09:13:22 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes

[snip]

The London system is being upgraded, by a DfT funded project, so that
all Oyster readers can read ITSO spec cards. Therefore concessionary
passes issued elsewhere in England will be read by London bus readers.
NOTE that this does NOT mean that bus concessionary passes will work
on the tube, rail or DLR - they won't as they are not valid.

I think it does mean that such additional validity could be simple to
implement, given the political will.

I do not know enough about how ITSO "product definitions" work to know
if it would be technically possible or "simple". It strikes me that
nothing about ITSO is that easy - if it was it would be in far greater
use than it is.

There is no political will so you don't need to worry about.

This London Council Tax payer and Freedom Pass holder would like to see
symmetrical validity. Let Northumberland seniors travel free by London
Tube and let me travel free on buses and Glasgow Subway in Scotland.

Oh I am sure that you would. I suspect Mr Salmond would be delighted
(not!) to give you free travel in Scotland provided we give him all
the oil revenues and everything else he wants.

Face it - the English Concessionary Pass scheme is a disaster
financially as it has never been funded properly and commercial bus
operators are fed up with it. It is causing the abolition and
reduction of bus services because the revenue base has been eroded and
costs have gone up (where ridership has gone up). There is no point
at all in having a pass if there are no services to use it on.

I fully expect that London Councils will soon get to the point of
being unable to sustain the Freedom Pass and Boris has simply raided
TfL's budget to fund the 60+ pass. Every time fares go up then the
cost of the Freedom Pass goes up. Even with the push to increase the
age of entitlement for concessionary passes the whole thing is a
disastrous mess and politicians need to stop lying about what is going
on. Local authority budgets are under such enormous pressure for the
next 4-5 years, on top of horrendous cuts, that the funding for the
Freedom Pass cannot be guaranteed. It simply does not override things
like funding education, waste collection, child protection or care for
the elderly so it must end up in the firing line soon enough.

I suspect pensioners, those who genuinely rely on buses, would much
prefer to keep their bus services and pay something towards their
fares or an annual charge for the pass. The alternative of a free pass
but no services is simply useless. The disparity between London and
the rest of the country is also scandalous although I recognise London
pensioners would man the barricades to keep what they have got. I
wonder if they realise how very well provided for they are?

OTOH, we don't even have symmetrical validity in London. I can go to
Dartford with a Freedom Pass, but not with Oyster PAYG. I saw many
Oyster customers tripped and trapped at that gateline, when I went there
one afternoon. Even worse, was finding someone had gone between Waterloo
and Hersham with PAYG and risked a criminal record. Travel beyond
Surbiton is not covered.] I was astounded that the Oyster Customer
Service Centre cancelled the incomplete journey charges.

We have never had symmetrical validity between all tickets and passes
in London. I doubt we ever will as the commercial pressures will keep
pulling NR fares away from TfL ones. There is no obvious strategy from
the Mayor to align fares other than via TfL taking over services. I
still doubt the government will endorse a mass move to concession
based contracts on the really big commuter TOCs.

There is decent enough information around as to where Oyster does or
does not work. IMLE many TOCs go to reasonable lengths to display
posters at stations and on trains and to use in train displays to say
clearly where Oyster stops being valid. I'm pretty sure Greater
Anglia, London Midland, C2C and Southern use these means. I rarely use
South Eastern but am well aware of the Dartford difference.


All SWT stations tell you what zone they are in, usually on the nameboard.

On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 12:02:58PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

I think few Londoners realise how well served they are.

Any of us who have tried to use public transport in the provinces do.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 11:56:17PM +0000, Tony Dragon wrote:
On 02/12/2012 19:31, Paul Corfield wrote:
There is decent enough information around as to where Oyster does or
does not work. IMLE many TOCs go to reasonable lengths to display
posters at stations and on trains and to use in train displays to say
clearly where Oyster stops being valid. I'm pretty sure Greater
Anglia, London Midland, C2C and Southern use these means. I rarely use
South Eastern but am well aware of the Dartford difference.
All SWT stations tell you what zone they are in, usually on the nameboard.

Those that are inside the zones aren't the problem. Do those that are
outside the zones make it really clear that Oyster *isn't* valid? And do
they make it obvious *before you get on the train at Waterloo*?

Southern don't.

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

Arbeit macht Alkoholiker

Roland Perry wrote

I wish I could find a barricade to man regarding the scandalous
slippage
of the qualifying date (from 60 to around 63 at the moment).


The creeping increase is to keep the qualifying age in line with the
State Pension age for women which is in the process of being slowly
increased to be the same as for men, 65.

Men got passes at 60 only because a man sued for sex discrimination.

So everyone who gets the State Pension continue to be age qualified for
a Bus Pass and eventually only those who qualify for the State Pension
will qualify for a Bus Pass.

At which point, since people persist in living longer, that age is sure
to be crept towards 70 and then 75.


--
Mike D