2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

Problems on the central line, piccadilly line, bakerloo suspended north
of wherever it was. Overground suspended north of wilseden. Why? Slightly
below freezing temps and a few flakes of snow. What an utter farce TfL is.
And they have the gall to put the fares up yet again above inflation in Jan.

Meanwhile the roads were fine.

B2003

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On 5 Dec, 09:50, wrote:
Problems on the central line, piccadilly line, bakerloo suspended north
of wherever it was. Overground suspended north of wilseden. Why? Slightly
below freezing temps and a few flakes of snow. What an utter farce TfL is.
And they have the gall to put the fares up yet again above inflation in Jan.

Meanwhile the roads were fine.

Last year NSR was the same. SWT continued until there was real snow.
The FGW diesels carried on running to Brighton and Portsmouth
regardless.

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 10:59:28 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 09:50:44 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

Problems on the central line, piccadilly line, bakerloo suspended north
of wherever it was. Overground suspended north of wilseden. Why? Slightly
below freezing temps and a few flakes of snow. What an utter farce TfL is.
And they have the gall to put the fares up yet again above inflation in Jan.

Meanwhile the roads were fine.

Including the ones managed by TfL? ;-)

I didn't notice much grit on the north circular so it was probably more
by luck than design.

B2003

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 03:58:47 -0800 (PST)
77002 wrote:
On 5 Dec, 09:50, wrote:
Problems on the central line, piccadilly line, bakerloo suspended north
of wherever it was. Overground suspended north of wilseden. Why? Slightly
below freezing temps and a few flakes of snow. What an utter farce TfL is.
And they have the gall to put the fares up yet again above inflation in Jan.

Meanwhile the roads were fine.

Last year NSR was the same. SWT continued until there was real snow.
The FGW diesels carried on running to Brighton and Portsmouth
regardless.

NSR?

I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

B2003

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On 5 Dec, 12:38, wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 03:58:47 -0800 (PST)

77002 wrote:
On 5 Dec, 09:50, wrote:
Problems on the central line, piccadilly line, bakerloo suspended north
of wherever it was. Overground suspended north of wilseden. Why? Slightly
below freezing temps and a few flakes of snow. What an utter farce TfL is.
And they have the gall to put the fares up yet again above inflation in Jan.

Meanwhile the roads were fine.

Last year NSR was the same. *SWT continued until there was real snow.
The FGW diesels carried on running to Brighton and Portsmouth
regardless.

NSR?

New Southern Railway.

I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Indeed. The Boston "T" carries on thru some of the most inclement
conditions I have ever experienced. If you have never endured a New
England winter, take it from me, you don't want to. Yet, the street
cars and subway lines soldier on. They are all electric.

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On 5/12/12 11:58, in article
, "77002"
wrote:

On 5 Dec, 09:50, wrote:
Problems on the central line, piccadilly line, bakerloo suspended north
of wherever it was. Overground suspended north of wilseden. Why? Slightly
below freezing temps and a few flakes of snow. What an utter farce TfL is.
And they have the gall to put the fares up yet again above inflation in Jan.

Meanwhile the roads were fine.

Last year NSR was the same. SWT continued until there was real snow.
The FGW diesels carried on running to Brighton and Portsmouth
regardless.

I'm replying to your message because the original one from boltar has not
shown up on Giganews for some reason.

I don't know which roads he saw which were 'fine', no doubt there were many,
but my bus took about twice as long as usual to get me to work this morning.
About 1-2 cm of snow on the ground, except where vehicles had removed it.

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 13:08:18 +0000
Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:

I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.


Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not

Its becoming more common so perhaps we should cope. Anyway , that aside
there's no excuse for 4 lines going down just because of a teeny amount
of snow and a slight frost. Any well run railway should be able to cope with
that.

grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

There's no point spending a grand on winter tyres and wheels because you'll
just get to the end of your street then get stuck behind 200 cars that don't
have them. For it to work the government needs to make them law as in france
and germany.

B2003

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:54:48 +0000
Stephen Furley wrote:
I don't know which roads he saw which were 'fine', no doubt there were many,
but my bus took about twice as long as usual to get me to work this morning.
About 1-2 cm of snow on the ground, except where vehicles had removed it.

People will naturally drive slower in the snow, but my journey was ok because
the snow seemed to have scared a lot of the usual school run muppets off the
roads so there was less traffic.

B2003

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On 05/12/2012 13:48, d wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 13:08:18 +0000
Anthony Polson wrote:
d wrote:

I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.


Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not

Its becoming more common so perhaps we should cope. Anyway , that aside
there's no excuse for 4 lines going down just because of a teeny amount
of snow and a slight frost. Any well run railway should be able to cope with
that.

grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

There's no point spending a grand on winter tyres and wheels because you'll
just get to the end of your street then get stuck behind 200 cars that don't
have them. For it to work the government needs to make them law as in france
and germany.

B2003


And to make sure that people who do fit them don't find that their
insurers penalise them for 'modifying' their cars :)

G

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Dec 5, 2:08*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

Not just that, when the infrastructure was being designed and
installed, it was known that such low temperatures and regular
snowfalls would be a routine part of operations, so design decisions
were taken to accommodate them. This was not the case in the UK. An
example being the use of uncovered top-contact 3rd or 3rd/4th rail.
Fine in warm and/or wet conditions, terrible in snow/ice.

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. *That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. *Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

The other issue is considering the ballance between the cost of
providing infrastructure to deal with cold and snow against the cost
of everything shutting down when it snows. If it only snows a couple
of days every two or three years, it's cheaper just to declare it a
snow day and stay at home. If there's snow on the ground for 3 months
of the year every year, that isn't an option.

Robin

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On 5 Dec, 13:49, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:54:48 +0000

Stephen Furley wrote:
I don't know which roads he saw which were 'fine', no doubt there were many,
but my bus took about twice as long as usual to get me to work this morning.
About 1-2 cm of snow on the ground, except where vehicles had removed it.

People will naturally drive slower in the snow, but my journey was ok because
the snow seemed to have scared a lot of the usual school run muppets off the
roads so there was less traffic.

B2003

I have noticed that in the past when there have been dire warnings in
advance about how bad things were going to be, and they turned out to
be much milder than predicted, but I don't think there were warnings
yesterday that made it sound bad enough to put people off today, at
least not in my area.

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Dec 5, 1:08*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. *That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. *Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

I'm not so persuaded by this, because it seems to me that every year
now we hear the excuse that "we don't get this weather every year"!

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

BrianW wrote:

On Dec 5, 1:08*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. *That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. *Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

I'm not so persuaded by this, because it seems to me that every year
now we hear the excuse that "we don't get this weather every year"!


For a period of 15 years we had hardly any snow in winter south of the
Peak District. During that period, when climatologists were telling
us that winter snow was gone for good because of climate change, how
persuaded would you have been by a proposal to invest many tens of
£ millions of taxpayers' money in snow and ice clearance measures for
the railways of the south east of England?

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 12:38:08 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

The Oslo metro (T-bane, Tunnellbane) have a raised third rail with a cover
where the contact is made on the underside.

--
jhk

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

In message , at 14:09:41 on
Wed, 5 Dec 2012, Anthony Polson remarked:
Snowblowers were purchased by NSE but after delivery we
had no regular snow for about 15 years so they were sent to Scotland
where apparently they have had very little use.

I can see the eBay advert now: For Sale, snow blowers. Not much use.
--
Roland Perry

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:12:41 +0100
Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 12:38:08 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

The Oslo metro (T-bane, Tunnellbane) have a raised third rail with a cover
where the contact is made on the underside.

That may be so , but generally its not the 3rd rail that causes everything
to grind to a halt. Its usually snow in the motors or signal failures or
slipping wheels or frozen points or something else from the Big Bumper Book
of Railway Excuses (available at a Christmas discount from Poundshop no doubt).

And its really not that hard to fit trains with some brushes and de-icing
fluid to keep the 3rd rails clear and if it really becomes a problem I can't
see why they couldn't just cover the 3rd rails and use a US style slat contact
instead of shoes. I suspect a lot cheaper than converting to overhead.

B2003

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Dec 5, 6:22*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
BrianW wrote:
On Dec 5, 1:08 pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

I'm not so persuaded by this, because it seems to me that every year
now we hear the excuse that "we don't get this weather every year"!

For a period of 15 years we had hardly any snow in winter south of the
Peak District. *During that period, when climatologists were telling
us that winter snow was gone for good because of climate change, how
persuaded would you have been by a proposal to invest many tens of
millions of taxpayers' money in snow and ice clearance measures for
the railways of the south east of England?

In fairness, it was only supposed to be a light-hearted comment of
mine.

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

"Anthony Polson" wrote in message
...
d wrote:

I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a
metre
deep.


Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.


I am told that it was approx 2cm of snow. That should not have a major
impact on anything. Meanwhile, in South Wales, we have the usual Cardiff
weather, i.e. heavy rain! Give me snow any day.

John

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

BrianW wrote:

In fairness, it was only supposed to be a light-hearted comment of
mine.


D'oh! :-)

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

Though you have to wonder how the metro systems in places like
canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

No, actually, we don't. When Toronto had a storm in 1999 that did
produce about 1 m of snow over two days, the above-ground parts of
the subway system had numerous problems. It has top-contact third
rail with a coverboard. Normally the trains brush the snow off the
rail before enough can settle to cause a problem, and all they have
to do in case of a snowstorm is to run some trains overnight on the
above-ground sections; but with the big snowfall there was nowhere
for the snow to be brushed *to*.

The same storm caused similar results in Chicago, which is at about
the same latitude but has uncovered third rail and their system is
mostly elevated.

In Montreal, on the other hand, snow is not an issue because the Metro
is entirely below ground.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "This man must be very ignorant, for he answers
| every question he is asked." -- Voltaire

My text in this article is in the public domain.

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, Dec 05, 2012 at 01:48:38PM +0000, d wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 13:08:18 +0000
Anthony Polson wrote:
We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
Its becoming more common

And your evidence for this is what?

Sure, we've had snow for the last three (I think) winters, but you'd
expect that to happen occasionally even in a region that hardly ever
gets any snow.

--
David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

It wouldn't hurt to think like a serial killer every so often.
Purely for purposes of prevention, of course.

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 11:49:53 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Dec 05, 2012 at 01:48:38PM +0000, d wrote:
On Wed, 05 Dec 2012 13:08:18 +0000
Anthony Polson wrote:
We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
Its becoming more common

And your evidence for this is what?

Sure, we've had snow for the last three (I think) winters, but you'd
expect that to happen occasionally even in a region that hardly ever
gets any snow.

When did it last snow in the sahara? Anyway , the fact that it snows here
at all should be enough for them to get their act together but every year
it seems to come as a complete surprise that it snows in winter and every year
we get the same tired old excuses. Its pathetic.

B2003

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Thu, Dec 06, 2012 at 10:12:07AM +0000, d wrote:

And its really not that hard to fit trains with some brushes and de-icing
fluid to keep the 3rd rails clear

Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? No, you need rather more than just a brush.

and if it really becomes a problem I can't
see why they couldn't just cover the 3rd rails and use a US style slat contact
instead of shoes. I suspect a lot cheaper than converting to overhead.

So you want to modify all the trains, all the track, and all the
lineside equipment that the modified trains will now bash into? Yeah,
that'll be cheap.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

THIS IS THE LANGUAGE POLICE
PUT DOWN YOUR THESAURUS
STEP AWAY FROM THE CLICHE

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

In message , at 11:49:53
on Fri, 7 Dec 2012, David Cantrell remarked:
we've had snow for the last three (I think) winters, but you'd
expect that to happen occasionally even in a region that hardly ever
gets any snow.

It snowed in Nottingham when my children were about 13 or 14 (but only
for a day) and they said it was the first time their locally brought up
friends had ever seen snow. They, on the other hand, have lived in
several other parts of the country and are quite familiar with it, even
to the extent of being disappointed at winters were there's not enough
snow to make a snowman.
--
Roland Perry

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:04:52 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Dec 06, 2012 at 10:12:07AM +0000, d wrote:

And its really not that hard to fit trains with some brushes and de-icing
fluid to keep the 3rd rails clear

Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? No, you need rather more than just a brush.

If I was brushing it all night it wouldn't frost up in the first place.

and if it really becomes a problem I can't
see why they couldn't just cover the 3rd rails and use a US style slat
contact
instead of shoes. I suspect a lot cheaper than converting to overhead.

So you want to modify all the trains, all the track, and all the
lineside equipment that the modified trains will now bash into? Yeah,
that'll be cheap.

Why would anything need to be modified other than the pickups? Instead of a
shoe sitting on the rail you have a slat poking out onto it. Nothing else
apart from the 3rd rail cover would be needed and until they put that on
then trains with old style shoes and trains with slats could interoperate.

ITYF it'd be a damn site cheaper then erecting catenary throughout the
southeast, adding transformers and pantographs to 3rd rail stock and binning
the ones that can't be converted. And thats before the problem of bridge
and tunnel clearances raises it ugly head.

B2003

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

In message , at 12:19:45 on Fri, 7 Dec
2012, d remarked:
Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? No, you need rather more than just a brush.

If I was brushing it all night it wouldn't frost up in the first place.

Of course it would. The remaining moisture in the air would frost the
window in between brush strokes (which are only any good at clearing
snow, not frost and ice). Unless you are pouring de-icer continuously,
and one of the drawbacks of de-icer is that the alcohols evaporate and
make the glass even colder than ambient.
--
Roland Perry

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On 7 Dec, 13:49, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:19:45 on Fri, 7 Dec
2012, remarked:

Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? *And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? *No, you need rather more than just a brush.

If I was brushing it all night it wouldn't frost up in the first place.

Of course it would. The remaining moisture in the air would frost the
window in between brush strokes (which are only any good at clearing
snow, not frost and ice). Unless you are pouring de-icer continuously,
and one of the drawbacks of de-icer is that the alcohols evaporate and
make the glass even colder than ambient.

IIRC, TfL's predecessors used to coat the conductor rail with some
sort of grease during the cold season. The conductor did not ice
over. Arcing was much reduced.

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 08:18:20 -0800 (PST), bob wrote:

On Dec 5, 2:08*pm, Anthony Polson wrote:
wrote:
I suppose the plus side of diesels is that they don't have to worry about
dodgy eletricity supplies. Though you have to wonder how the metro systems
in places like canada and oslo manage to run when its -20C and snow a metre
deep.

Because they get those conditions every winter and are completely
geared up to dealing with them?

Not just that, when the infrastructure was being designed and
installed, it was known that such low temperatures and regular
snowfalls would be a routine part of operations, so design decisions
were taken to accommodate them. This was not the case in the UK. An
example being the use of uncovered top-contact 3rd or 3rd/4th rail.
Fine in warm and/or wet conditions, terrible in snow/ice.

Chicago Transit Authority (the L) lines are all bare third rail and
they seem to manage during most snowfalls.

Clark Morris

We cannot cope with snow because we don't get it every year so are not
geared up for it at all. *That applies across most industries and
transport modes, not just rail. *Just look at the way the road system
grinds to a halt when it snows, because councils are unable to cope
and most motorists haven't got a clue about choosing the right tyres
for their vehicles.

The other issue is considering the ballance between the cost of
providing infrastructure to deal with cold and snow against the cost
of everything shutting down when it snows. If it only snows a couple
of days every two or three years, it's cheaper just to declare it a
snow day and stay at home. If there's snow on the ground for 3 months
of the year every year, that isn't an option.

Robin

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 07:29:04 -0800 (PST), 77002
wrote:

On 7 Dec, 13:49, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:19:45 on Fri, 7 Dec
2012, remarked:

Have you done any sums to figure out how much de-icing fluid would be
needed? *And have you ever tried clearing ice off your car's windows
with just a brush? *No, you need rather more than just a brush.

If I was brushing it all night it wouldn't frost up in the first place.

Of course it would. The remaining moisture in the air would frost the
window in between brush strokes (which are only any good at clearing
snow, not frost and ice). Unless you are pouring de-icer continuously,
and one of the drawbacks of de-icer is that the alcohols evaporate and
make the glass even colder than ambient.

IIRC, TfL's predecessors used to coat the conductor rail with some
sort of grease during the cold season. The conductor did not ice
over. Arcing was much reduced.

You might be confusing de-icing fluid with Sandite used on running
rails. De-icing fluid used to be similar to dilute car anti-freeze but
has been replaced by newer stuff which does not wash off as easily and
is claimed to be "greener" :-
http://www.arrowvale.co.uk/component/content/article/61

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Fri, Dec 07, 2012 at 11:51:57AM +0000, d wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 11:49:53 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
Sure, we've had snow for the last three (I think) winters, but you'd
expect that to happen occasionally even in a region that hardly ever
gets any snow.
the fact that it snows here
at all should be enough for them to get their act together

By which you mean that "they" should have snow-ploughs and gritters etc
ready to go?

Who's gonna pay for them? It's just not a good investment when they'd
hardly ever be used.

but every year
it seems to come as a complete surprise that it snows in winter

No it doesn't.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt

2 flakes of snow and it all falls apart
 

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:03:52 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Dec 07, 2012 at 11:51:57AM +0000, d wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 11:49:53 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
Sure, we've had snow for the last three (I think) winters, but you'd
expect that to happen occasionally even in a region that hardly ever
gets any snow.
the fact that it snows here
at all should be enough for them to get their act together

By which you mean that "they" should have snow-ploughs and gritters etc
ready to go?

Who's gonna pay for them? It's just not a good investment when they'd
hardly ever be used.

I've never once seen a Halon system in a computer room used in anger but
you can be damn sure every serious company has one installed in theirs.
What the hell is the cost of a couple of trucks and some grit compared to
the millions, possibly even billions lost when everything grinds to a halt?

B2003