On 18 Dec, 08:18, Anthony Polson wrote:
Lew 1 wrote:
All of which mean that the notion that steam has been running on the tube
really isn't incorrect in modern general language.

People think they're being clever when they point this out when in fact
they're being utterly boring.

They are being utterly boring but *precisely correct*, the latter
probably being their sole source of pleasure in life.

It therefore seems unkind to deny them this pleasure.

Your post is boringly ad-hominem, not to mention inaccurate. Unusual
these days, because you have been posting so much good stuff.

On 18/12/2012 14:42, Nick Leverton wrote:
In article ,
77002 wrote:
On 18 Dec, 08:50, Nick Leverton wrote:
In article ,

--
Which section was tube track? AFIK Earls Court to Moorgate is all sub-
surface. Moreover, one cannot bring back something which never
existed. The tube lines were electric from their beginning.

It's a colloquialism.

Indeed so. It dates back to the opening of London’s deep level lines
bored thru London Clay. In 1900 the Central London Railway was opened
and became known as the 'Tuppenny Tube'. This of course was because
of its price and the shape of the bored tunnels. At 2d (a little
under 0.5p) the price was actually a little on the high side.

The tube routes should never be confused with the earlier sub surface
lines. Although I guess we should not be surprised that this is lost
on the bourgeois communists at the Guardian.

I must say it's quite entertaining to see the number of irrelevant
things you try to blame on politics, such as use of colloquial language.

Few ordinary newspaper-reading people on the Clapham omnibus today,
whether they read some hard-line authoritarian right-wing Murdoch rag or a
slightly liberal middle-of-the-road paper like the Graun, are concerned
about the hundred-year-old history of how each individual line was
built in order to inform them of what they should be calling it. It's a
unified system these days. Unfortunately, when the Underground Group
were publicising the Tube back in the first quarter of the last century,
they seem to have omitted to tell people that this word wasn't to be used
for the sub-surface lines, so now you're stuck with it like it or not.

Next think we know people will be claiming there is a difference between
locomotive and train, commuter and passenger (or customer), locomotive
4772 and the Scotch express.

Popular use is simple - in London you have the Tube and the Overground.
Maybe a few adventurous types might know that somewhere in the deep
south are strange green things running down the roads.



--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 18 Dec, 06:42, Nick Leverton wrote:
In article ,





77002 wrote:
On 18 Dec, 08:50, Nick Leverton wrote:
In article ,

--
Which section was tube track? AFIK Earls Court to Moorgate is all sub-
surface. Moreover, one cannot bring back something which never
existed. The tube lines were electric from their beginning.

It's a colloquialism.

Indeed so. *It dates back to the opening of London s deep level lines
bored thru London Clay. *In 1900 the Central London Railway was opened
and became known as the 'Tuppenny Tube'. *This of course was because
of its price and the shape of the bored tunnels. *At 2d (a little
under 0.5p) the price was actually a little on the high side.

The tube routes should never be confused with the earlier sub surface
lines. *Although I guess we should not be surprised that this is lost
on the bourgeois communists at the Guardian.

I must say it's quite entertaining to see the number of irrelevant
things you try to blame on politics, such as use of colloquial language.

No, I blame them for poor journalism. The fact that they are well to
the left is a separate matter

Few ordinary newspaper-reading people on the Clapham omnibus today,
whether they read some hard-line authoritarian right-wing Murdoch rag or a
slightly liberal middle-of-the-road paper like the Graun, are concerned
about the hundred-year-old history of how each individual line was
built in order to inform them of what they should be calling it. *It's a
unified system these days. *Unfortunately, when the Underground Group
were publicising the Tube back in the first quarter of the last century,
they seem to have omitted to tell people that this word wasn't to be used
for the sub-surface lines, so now you're stuck with it like it or not.

IIRC The Underground Group advertised its "UndergrounD" system, note
the capital "D".

We use them in this country.

Of course, but given that misc.transport.urban-transit is an
international group, you might want to name the country in question.

Of course, my apologies

Accepted, but not needed. A simple acknowledgement would have been
sufficient.

On 18/12/2012 17:31, Bruce wrote:
On 18/12/2012 16:45, d wrote:

But I wouldn't worry , Guardian readership is in freefall so it won't be
around much longer and one can only hope liberal left politics gets
buried
with it in the dustbin of history where it belongs.

B2003


Perhaps it is time to change the Guardian's name back to "The Manchester
Guardian".

Does the Guardian know where Manchester is? Though to be fair to them,
it isn't on the Underground map.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Peter Masson" wrote:
"Recliner" wrote

I wonder whether the first Met
line trains 150 years ago were also GW broad gauge? I assume they were.

Yes. The Met was built as mixed gauge from Paddington (Bishop's Road) at
least to Farringdon and AFAIK to Moorgate, and was initially (Jan - Aug
1863) worked between Bishop's Road and Farringdon by the GWR using broad
gauge stock. The Met fell out with the GWR, who gave 9 days notice that
they would cease to work the line after 10 August 1863, but by then the
connection with the GNR at Kings Cross had been completed, so the Met
began operating the service themselves, using standard gauge stock
obtained from the GNR. It's not clear how much the broad gauge was used
after this (GWR meat trains to Smithfield, perhaps), though when the
Widened Lines were built in 1866, mixed gauge was provided, though it is
not known if GWR broad gauge trains ever used the Widened Lines.

IIRC, the GNR had to make a big effort to have enough condensing locos
available to take over the running when the GWR pulled out at short notice.
--
Jeremy Double

On 18 Dec, 07:42, allantracy wrote:
The tube routes should never be confused with the earlier sub surface
lines. *Although I guess we should not be surprised that this is lost
on the bourgeois communists at the Guardian.

Well seeing as how TfL routinely use the term Tube to describe the
London Underground, all over their website (as in Tube map or Tube
engineering works), I think we can excuse all the bourgeois communists
this time.

Well Allan, I guess I will have to concede. Although I dislike it
when official bodies give in to inaccurate popular culture.
Celebrating the new Millenium in 2000 was the biggest example of this
in our lifetime.

In uk.railway wrote:
Not for passenger operation,the Central London Railway had two
Hunslets built to tube gauge for maintenance trains.
Unfortunately no photo seems to be around on the WWW to link to,
In a book I have they look quite smart. Dual fired ,on coal or oil.

http://districtdave.proboards.com/in...=2471 &page=1

Theo

On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 08:47:16 -0800 (PST), allantracy
wrote:


Blimey, that lot fails to tick more than a few boxes, on the PC check
list, at the Guardian.

Do you regard the BMJ as a bunch of commies, too?http://press.psprings.co.uk/bmj/december/chefs.pdf

No they're just fascists that would take away all our personal
freedom.

They're all in great need of a 'liberal free democracy' awareness
course to remind them of the kind of nation that Britain is supposed
to be.

All this nanny state crap is about protecting the NHS, that can't
deliver, even though it's funding has been doubled over the last
fifteen years.

Of course, it's an entirely misguided short term fix, five years of a
nation looking after itself, all tucked up in bed by 7:30, and the NHS
wouldn't know what's hit it, once we all started living five years
longer.

Compounded by all the lost nanny state tax revenue on booze and fags.

Isn't paying for the costs of their activities part of Tory
philosophy?

The BMJ should be very careful what they wish for.

Nick Leverton:
It's a unified system these days. Unfortunately, when the Underground
Group were publicising the Tube back in the first quarter of the last
century, they seem to have omitted to tell people that this word wasn't
to be used for the sub-surface lines...

Actually, not true. It was the Central London Railway (opened 1900)
that first publicized the word "Tube" in a big way,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%2C_1905.p ng

http://rlv.zcache.com/central_london...65_ihk_400.jpg

and the point was precisely to differentiate the CLR from the
old-fashioned subsurface lines with their tunnels full of smoke.
When the three Yerkes tubes opened in 1906 and 1907, they also used
the word at first, but by that time the subsurface lines were electric
in Central London. When unified maps began to be produced in 1908,
the companies *then* decided to standardize on "Underground".

With no official use of "tube" for decades and no distinction between
steam and electric trains in the tunnels any more, the general public
did not maintain the strict use of the word and...

now you're stuck with it like it or not.

--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "I don't know about your brain,
| but mine is really bossy." -- Laurie Anderson

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Well Allan, I guess I will have to concede. Although I dislike it
when official bodies give in to inaccurate popular culture.

I hope you don't have too much trouble if you ever have to ask directions
to the Baker Street and Waterloo Line trains, then.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...blind faith can ruin the eyesight--
| and the perspective." --Robert Ludlum