MR - Mar 2013 (Bank Cards make ticketing debut)

"Levente Nagy arrived in London from Budapest. He hoped on a bus, held his
Hungarian bank card against the reader and ... No hanging around, no
purchase of an Oyster, just the simple use of his bank card to pay the
fare."

Yet Tfl's information on contactless payment says:

"If you have a credit, debit or charge card that has been *issued in the UK*
and displays the contactless payment symbol, you should be able to use it on
buses to pay for single journeys"

So is TFL's website wrong or did MF make Mr Nagy up (naughty naughty!)?

tim

In message , at 09:35:15 on Sat, 2 Mar
2013, tim..... remarked:
MR - Mar 2013 (Bank Cards make ticketing debut)

"Levente Nagy arrived in London from Budapest. He hoped on a bus, held
his Hungarian bank card against the reader and ... No hanging around,
no purchase of an Oyster, just the simple use of his bank card to pay
the fare."

Yet Tfl's information on contactless payment says:

"If you have a credit, debit or charge card that has been *issued in
the UK* and displays the contactless payment symbol, you should be able
to use it on buses to pay for single journeys"

So is TFL's website wrong or did MF make Mr Nagy up (naughty naughty!)?

Most likely, TFL omitted to say "and if you have... issued outside the
UK, you *might* (depending on evolving agreements with foreign issuers)
be able to use it on buses...". But at this stage they don't want to get
into a debate of which and when.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 09:56:56 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

Most likely, TFL omitted to say "and if you have... issued outside the
UK, you *might* (depending on evolving agreements with foreign issuers)
be able to use it on buses...". But at this stage they don't want to get
into a debate of which and when.

I understand the need to launch the thing in stages, so buses first
makes a lot of sense, but I think that foreign card acceptance is one
thing that should have been sorted-out first. It is just asking for
trouble, argument and confusion in a great tourist destination.

Richard.

In message , at 10:36:05 on
Sat, 2 Mar 2013, Richard remarked:
Most likely, TFL omitted to say "and if you have... issued outside the
UK, you *might* (depending on evolving agreements with foreign issuers)
be able to use it on buses...". But at this stage they don't want to get
into a debate of which and when.

I understand the need to launch the thing in stages, so buses first
makes a lot of sense, but I think that foreign card acceptance is one
thing that should have been sorted-out first. It is just asking for
trouble, argument and confusion in a great tourist destination.

AFAIK, the problem is in getting foreign card issuers to buy into the
feature whereby the cardholder is *never* asked for a PIN (on TfL or
other transport operators), which requires some new flag setting as well
the card issuer dealing with fraudulent purchases slightly differently.

It seems to be taking some time to roll this out world-wide. It may even
be the case that you need to wait for cardholders to get a newly-issued
card with this feature enabled (which TfL would be comfortable about
having happened in the UK, but not elsewhere), but I'm speculating
there.
--
Roland Perry

AFAIK, the problem is in getting foreign card issuers to buy into the
feature whereby the cardholder is *never* asked for a PIN (on TfL or
other transport operators), which requires some new flag setting as well
the card issuer dealing with fraudulent purchases slightly differently.

Depends on the issuer. On contactless cards issued in North America,
I've never been asked for a PIN or signature on charges under $25,
which even at current prices should be a rather lengthy bus trip.

--
Regards,
John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly

In message , at 22:11:42 on Sat, 2 Mar
2013, John Levine remarked:
AFAIK, the problem is in getting foreign card issuers to buy into the
feature whereby the cardholder is *never* asked for a PIN (on TfL or
other transport operators), which requires some new flag setting as well
the card issuer dealing with fraudulent purchases slightly differently.

Depends on the issuer. On contactless cards issued in North America,
I've never been asked for a PIN or signature on charges under $25,
which even at current prices should be a rather lengthy bus trip.

Do you use the card exclusively for contactless charges under $25?

Making a conventional transaction, or a contactless charge over $25 with
a PIN, will both reset a transaction counter on the card, and it will
start counting up again (to an unpublished total, which can vary by
issuer and application, but perhaps commonly ten[1]) at which point a
PIN will be asked for.

I'm also reminded that the TfL scheme apparently won't accept pre-pay
pay-wave cards, which are more common outside the UK than inside.
Although (being a bit of a collector of this kind of thing) I do have a
UK-issued one and I'm tempted to try it next time I'm in London. The
risk, of course, is that the account is dry, something which can't be
checked in real time while you are boarding a bus.

[1] And which I've seen reports saying is set to "one" by card issuers
in some countries, which is a reason for TfL to be cautious in what
they promise. I've also seen reports that say it's set to 4 x $25
(or whatever that card's limit is), but I'm sceptical because I
don't think the card keeps a monetary transaction log.
--
Roland Perry

On 03/03/2013 08:32, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:11:42 on Sat, 2 Mar
2013, John Levine remarked:
AFAIK, the problem is in getting foreign card issuers to buy into the
feature whereby the cardholder is *never* asked for a PIN (on TfL or
other transport operators), which requires some new flag setting as well
the card issuer dealing with fraudulent purchases slightly differently.

Depends on the issuer. On contactless cards issued in North America,
I've never been asked for a PIN or signature on charges under $25,
which even at current prices should be a rather lengthy bus trip.

Do you use the card exclusively for contactless charges under $25?

Making a conventional transaction, or a contactless charge over $25 with
a PIN, will both reset a transaction counter on the card, and it will
start counting up again (to an unpublished total, which can vary by
issuer and application, but perhaps commonly ten[1]) at which point a
PIN will be asked for.

I'm also reminded that the TfL scheme apparently won't accept pre-pay
pay-wave cards, which are more common outside the UK than inside.
Although (being a bit of a collector of this kind of thing) I do have a
UK-issued one and I'm tempted to try it next time I'm in London. The
risk, of course, is that the account is dry, something which can't be
checked in real time while you are boarding a bus.

[1] And which I've seen reports saying is set to "one" by card issuers
in some countries, which is a reason for TfL to be cautious in what
they promise. I've also seen reports that say it's set to 4 x $25
(or whatever that card's limit is), but I'm sceptical because I
don't think the card keeps a monetary transaction log.


When will other transport agencies in the UK allow passengers to use
their contactless cards for fare payment?

" wrote:

When will other transport agencies in the UK allow passengers to use
their contactless cards for fare payment?

A number of bus companies are experimenting with it. Stagecoach Lancashire
are accepting it on some routes, for instance, e.g. the heavily touristed
Lakes 555, though not really publicised at present.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

In message , at 11:40:53 on Sun, 3 Mar 2013,
" remarked:
When will other transport agencies in the UK allow passengers to use
their contactless cards for fare payment?

Apparently you can use them on some Stagecoach buses, but I expect
that's to buy tickets rather than as ticketless solution.

Most UK transport operations seem more into ITSO than Paywave (a classic
VHS/Betamax struggle in the offing).
--
Roland Perry

Depends on the issuer. On contactless cards issued in North America,
I've never been asked for a PIN or signature on charges under $25,
which even at current prices should be a rather lengthy bus trip.

Do you use the card exclusively for contactless charges under $25?

No, I use my contactless Amex to buy most of my groceries. I tap it
on the reader at the till, then if the total is low enough ($25 at the
smaller local market, $50 at the bigger chain store) they just hand me
the receipt and I'm done. Above that, since this is the US, they ask
me to sign using the stylus on the pressure sensitive screen, at which
point I write something like NOT ME or FLUFFY and we're done.

My Canadian mastercard has both a normal chip and a contactless one.
I haven't used it enough in Canada, where they have chip+pin, to
figure out what the rules for contactless transactions are.

--
Regards,
John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly