Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

Last december when I was driving along Marylebone Road Westbound to get out of London and was diverted by Police into the Congestion Charge Zone and was caught by TfL camera and consequently I made a representation to explain the case but was told that TfL could not find the record on the traffic diversion occurred. I was asked by the TfL to provide evidence about the traffic diversion. Since I haven't taken any particular note of the police officers involved, I wonder if anyone there has experienced similar case? and if yes, how I should proceed to acquire such an evidence? Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

On 2013\04\07 23:12, jaychiu wrote:
Last december when I was driving along Marylebone Road Westbound to get
out of London and was diverted by Police into the Congestion Charge Zone
and was caught by TfL camera and consequently I made a representation to
explain the case but was told that TfL could not find the record on the
traffic diversion occurred. I was asked by the TfL to provide evidence
about the traffic diversion. Since I haven't taken any particular note
of the police officers involved, I wonder if anyone there has
experienced similar case? and if yes, how I should proceed to acquire
such an evidence? Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Were you the only vehicle so diverted? Where exactly was the diversion?

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

"jaychiu" wrote in message
...

Last december when I was driving along Marylebone Road Westbound to get
out of London and was diverted by Police into the Congestion Charge Zone
and was caught by TfL camera and consequently I made a representation to
explain the case but was told that TfL could not find the record on the
traffic diversion occurred. I was asked by the TfL to provide evidence
about the traffic diversion. Since I haven't taken any particular note
of the police officers involved, I wonder if anyone there has
experienced similar case? and if yes, how I should proceed to acquire
such an evidence? Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Call the MPS giving the date, time and location and ask for an incident log
number. If you're calling in the MPS area the non-emergency number is 101.
If you're outside the MPS area call 101 anyway and ask to be connected to
the MPS.

--
DAS

I was dring along Marylebone road to get onto M40 back B'ham and was diverted by police onto Portland Pl, along the Park Crescent (the semi-circular road). The time was around 12:30-1:30pm, on 20th December 2012. I was certainly not the only one being diverted - there were many other cars. I've written a letter to the Marylybone Police Station on 19th Feb in order to get a confirmation about the diversion but so far have not received anything from them yet. I will certainly contact the MPS again.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

"jaychiu" wrote in message
...

'D A Stocks[_2_ Wrote:
;136705']"jaychiu" wrote in message
...-

Last december when I was driving along Marylebone Road Westbound to
get
out of London and was diverted by Police into the Congestion Charge
Zone
and was caught by TfL camera and consequently I made a representation
to
explain the case but was told that TfL could not find the record on
the
traffic diversion occurred. I was asked by the TfL to provide evidence
about the traffic diversion. Since I haven't taken any particular note
of the police officers involved, I wonder if anyone there has
experienced similar case? and if yes, how I should proceed to acquire
such an evidence? Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
-
Call the MPS giving the date, time and location and ask for an incident
log
number. If you're calling in the MPS area the non-emergency number is
101.
If you're outside the MPS area call 101 anyway and ask to be connected
to
the MPS.

--
DAS

I was dring along Marylebone road to get onto M40 back B'ham and was
diverted by police onto Portland Pl, along the Park Crescent (the
semi-circular road). The time was around 12:30-1:30pm, on 20th December
2012. I was certainly not the only one being diverted - there were many
other cars. I've written a letter to the Marylybone Police Station on
19th Feb in order to get a confirmation about the diversion but so far
have not received anything from them yet. I will certainly contact the
MPS again.


A local police station is unlikely to be able to help you. If you use the
number above you should be talking directly to the people who logged the
incident. Until you have an incident log number you don't have much hope.

--
DAS

Many thanks DAS. I've got the incident log number now and was asked by the lady who answered 101 call to write to New Scotland Yard for the written confirmation, which I will do shortly. I will certainly send a registered mail rather than the normal royal mail, to make sure it will not be lost on its way down to London. Does anyone have any idea how long does it take to collect such a confirmation letter from New Scotland Yard? Am I realistic to expect anything within two weeks after sending out the letter to NSY?

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

In message , at 08:30:17 on Mon, 15
Apr 2013, jaychiu remarked:
I will certainly send a
registered mail rather than the normal royal
mail

It's called "Special Delivery" now.
--
Roland Perry

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

Recorded delivery is what you need.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

On 15/04/2013 10:04, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 08:30:17 on Mon, 15
Apr 2013, jaychiu remarked:
I will certainly send a
registered mail rather than the normal royal mail

It's called "Special Delivery" now.

Not necessarily.

"Signed For", aka Recorded delivery.
http://www.royalmail.com/personal/uk-delivery/signed-for-1st-class
http://www.royalmail.com/personal/uk-delivery/signed-2nd-class

Rather cheaper than SD.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

In message , at 22:58:54 on Mon, 15 Apr
2013, Mizter T remarked:
I will certainly send a
registered mail rather than the normal royal mail

It's called "Special Delivery" now.

Not necessarily.

"Signed For", aka Recorded delivery.
http://www.royalmail.com/personal/uk-delivery/signed-for-1st-class
http://www.royalmail.com/personal/uk-delivery/signed-2nd-class

Rather cheaper than SD.

Signed-for is the replacement for Recorded Delivery; the OP was looking
for Registered, which has been replaced by SD.
--
Roland Perry

Thanks all for the suggestion.
Just sent at a post office: it is called Royal Mail recorded 1st or 2nd class, Signed for. This is the standard postal service with signature and barcode scanning on delivery.
Now I am waiting for the MPS to reply and hopefully with a confirmation letter.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

In message , at 11:08:12 on Wed, 17
Apr 2013, jaychiu remarked:
Just sent at a post office: it is called Royal Mail recorded 1st or 2nd
class, Signed for. This is the standard postal service with signature
and barcode scanning on delivery.

That's just normal mail with confirmation it arrived. It's no less
likely to get lost en-route.
--
Roland Perry

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

On 2013-04-17 14:52:31 +0000, Roland Perry said:

In message , at 11:08:12 on Wed, 17
Apr 2013, jaychiu remarked:
Just sent at a post office: it is called Royal Mail recorded 1st or 2nd
class, Signed for. This is the standard postal service with signature
and barcode scanning on delivery.

That's just normal mail with confirmation it arrived. It's no less
likely to get lost en-route.

But considerably less likely to be lost by the recipient.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

In message 2013041717250738867-ken@birchangercom, at 17:25:07 on Wed,
17 Apr 2013, Ken Wheatley remarked:

Just sent at a post office: it is called Royal Mail recorded 1st or 2nd
class, Signed for. This is the standard postal service with signature
and barcode scanning on delivery.
That's just normal mail with confirmation it arrived. It's no less
likely to get lost en-route.

But considerably less likely to be lost by the recipient.

I'm not so sure. When the postman delivers a whole bag of mail to a
large user, don't you think he just crosses off all the "Recorded" items
that are believed to be enclosed, without individually correlating them.
At that point all the post is the same to the recipient, and indeed most
post-rooms will dispose of all the envelopes and lose the very fact it
was sent "signed for".
--
Roland Perry

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 17:25:07 +0100, Ken Wheatley wrote:

Just sent at a post office: it is called Royal Mail recorded 1st or
2nd class, Signed for. This is the standard postal service with
signature and barcode scanning on delivery.

That's just normal mail with confirmation it arrived. It's no less
likely to get lost en-route.

But considerably less likely to be lost by the recipient.

Not really. Signing will be done before post actually enters the office's
internal systems - and that's where "losing" is most likely to happen.

The serviced offices my company used to be in often had registered
letters for companies who were no longer there, sat on the side next to
the pigeon holes - usually still with the sticker attached, so unsigned-
for...

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

Adrian wrote:

Not really. Signing will be done before post actually enters the office's
internal systems - and that's where "losing" is most likely to happen.

True, though depending on what the communication contains it's quite
possible that the company having received it will suffice.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

Roland Perry wrote:

I'm not so sure. When the postman delivers a whole bag of mail to a large
user, don't you think he just crosses off all the "Recorded" items that
are believed to be enclosed, without individually correlating them. At
that point all the post is the same to the recipient, and indeed most
post-rooms will dispose of all the envelopes and lose the very fact it
was sent "signed for".

I doubt it, as the signature must be recorded. While I can't remember if
it was recorded or registered, probably the latter, I did get a company
(Psion, in fact, might as well mention them seeing as they are no longer
around) to accept that they had received a parcel containing a faulty
Series 5 palmtop (worth around 400 quid at the time) even though they had
somehow lost it, because the signature was recalled from the Royal Mail and
they found out who had signed for it. As a result I received a brand new
unit at no cost to me.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 18:31:58 +0000, Neil Williams wrote:

Not really. Signing will be done before post actually enters the
office's internal systems - and that's where "losing" is most likely to
happen.

True, though depending on what the communication contains it's quite
possible that the company having received it will suffice.

Except that the para you snipped included a practical real-world example
of registered post not always reaching the company, and not always being
signed for when it does.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

In message

..net, at 18:31:58 on Wed, 17 Apr 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
I'm not so sure. When the postman delivers a whole bag of mail to a large
user, don't you think he just crosses off all the "Recorded" items that
are believed to be enclosed, without individually correlating them. At
that point all the post is the same to the recipient, and indeed most
post-rooms will dispose of all the envelopes and lose the very fact it
was sent "signed for".

I doubt it, as the signature must be recorded. While I can't remember if
it was recorded or registered, probably the latter,

Registered is much more authoritative than Recorded.

--
Roland Perry

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

....But Psion machines are still used on the Underground.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

"jaychiu" wrote in message
...


Thanks all for the suggestion.
Just sent at a post office: it is called Royal Mail recorded 1st or 2nd
class, Signed for. This is the standard postal service with signature
and barcode scanning on delivery.
Now I am waiting for the MPS to reply and hopefully with a confirmation
letter.

It seems a bit unfair that you have to prove your innocence in this matter.
I would have thought you ought to be able to quote the MPS incident log
number to TfL and make *them* do all the work.

--
DAS

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

On 17/04/2013 19:31, Neil Williams wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

I'm not so sure. When the postman delivers a whole bag of mail to a large
user, don't you think he just crosses off all the "Recorded" items that
are believed to be enclosed, without individually correlating them. At
that point all the post is the same to the recipient, and indeed most
post-rooms will dispose of all the envelopes and lose the very fact it
was sent "signed for".

I doubt it, as the signature must be recorded.

In theory, but I have frequently had "signed for" letters delivered to
me at home without any attempt to obtain my signature.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

"Richard J." wrote:

In theory, but I have frequently had "signed for" letters delivered to me
at home without any attempt to obtain my signature.

There is now a Tracked service which doesn't need a signature. But if it
was Recorded the postman is not doing his job, and this would be
highlighted if the signature was recalled.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

In message

..net, at 18:31:58 on Wed, 17 Apr 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
I'm not so sure. When the postman delivers a whole bag of mail to a large
user, don't you think he just crosses off all the "Recorded" items that
are believed to be enclosed, without individually correlating them. At
that point all the post is the same to the recipient, and indeed most
post-rooms will dispose of all the envelopes and lose the very fact it
was sent "signed for".

I doubt it, as the signature must be recorded.

The signature is recorded by the postman, in a little book. The
recipient records nothing.

Large post rooms then dump all the letters into a letter-opening machine
and discard the envelopes. Smaller post rooms do the same by hand.
--
Roland Perry

It's a bit worrying but I genuinely hope that the letter will not be lost en route and that the MPS can send me the confirmation letter as evidence soon. Anyone knows typically how long does it take for the MPS to issue such a letter? or would it be feasible for me to drive down to London to request and then collect the letter on the same day?

Confirmation/Evidence of Traffic Diversion
 

In message , at 21:57:56 on Thu, 18
Apr 2013, jaychiu remarked:
Anyone knows typically how long does it take for the MPS
to issue such a letter?

If it's anything like the normal response to paperwork I'd allow at
least three weeks.

or would it be feasible for me to drive down to
London to request and then collect the letter on the same day?

The problem with that is knowing which bit of the MPS to visit, they
have numerous buildings. And then you'd have to in effect make an
appointment with the person issuing the letter, for them to hand it
over. Expecting to do all that on the same day is extremely ambitious.
--
Roland Perry

Thanks all for the information provided. I have received Tuesday last week the confirmation letter from the Metropolitan Police on the traffic diversion and then on Saturday last week attended the appeal (yes appeal down in London) against the charge raised by the Transport for London. I was told within a few minutes by the the adjudicator (a solicitor) that he would support my appealing.

Looking back the process of the whole case, it took me quite some time to call different bodies and write a few letters (including the last registered one) and a trip down to London from Birmingham. I guess the cost I paid could be well above £60 charge raised (originally was £12).

I could have speeded it up by sending registered letter to the Metropolitan Police directly rather than sending letter to a local police station. If I could receive the confirmation letter within the 21 days specified by the TfL, then I guess that they will accept the representation I've made and cancel the penalty charge. This is something we can do and will do if similar thing happens again (hope not) next time.

On the other hand, the TfL should have established a better link with the police so that the information on some temporary traffic diversion can be recorded once it has been raised, as it was in this case. Hope the TfL can have this point at their wish list in terms of service improvement in the future...

thanks again.