Hoxton Overground station survey
 

Hello,

I am conducting research on the impact of the Hoxton Overground station since it opened in 2010. The study is part of the requirements for the Masters in Urban Planning from the University of Amsterdam. I would like to ask you a few questions about how the station has impacted your connection to the community and the city.

By taking the survey, you either have to live within the boundaries of Hoxton or use the Hoxton Overground station semi-frequently.

You will find a link to the survey below:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/hoxtonovergroundsurvey

For the purpose of this survey, the borders of Hoxton will be: The Regents Canal in the north, City Road/ Wharf Road in the west, Old Street/Hackney Road/Columbia Road in the south and Queensbridge Road in the East.

No personal information will be collected in this survey and it will take about 10 minutes to complete.

Please feel free to send this to anyone you think might be interested and fits the criteria.

Thank you so much for you time,
Patrick

I hope you receive a response from every adult resident of Hoxton.

In the days of British Rail there was no station at Hoxton. Trains ran
non-stop between Broad Street and Dalston Junction.

Before the Second World War there had been additional stations. Mildmay Park
was closed in 1934, Haggerston was closed in May, 1940 and Shoreditch was
closed in October 1940. When the War ended, it was decided not to reopen
these stations, almost certainly because they had been so lightly patronised
previously.

I was extremely sceptical when TfL decided to build new stations at
Haggerston and Hoxton. I thought even one station might prove to be a white
elephant. From my, admittedly infrequent, observations, both Hoxton and
Haggerston have turned out to be white elephants. I hope you return here with
the results of your survey.

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

In message , Robin9
writes

From my, admittedly infrequent, observations, both Hoxton and
Haggerston have turned out to be white elephants.

According to figures published in the Guardian, Haggerston saw 1,172,578
entrances/exits last year, making it busier than Clapton, Hampton,
Stoneleigh, Rochester, Paddock Wood, Andover, Mottingham and many other
stations.

Hoxton saw 1,042,854 entrances/exits, similar to Haringay, Nunhead,
Telford Central, etc.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...tations-listed
-rail
--
Paul Terry

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

In article , (Paul Terry)
wrote:

In message , Robin9
writes

From my, admittedly infrequent, observations, both Hoxton and
Haggerston have turned out to be white elephants.

According to figures published in the Guardian, Haggerston saw
1,172,578 entrances/exits last year, making it busier than Clapton,
Hampton, Stoneleigh, Rochester, Paddock Wood, Andover, Mottingham and
many other stations.

Hoxton saw 1,042,854 entrances/exits, similar to Haringay, Nunhead,
Telford Central, etc.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...ons-listed-rai
l

Some curious omissions and errors on that map. I couldn't find Dullingham or
Shepreth. Foxton and Royston were badly mislocated with Foxton inside the
City of Cambridge. The problem appears from the table to be with bad
postcodes. Shepreth and Meldreth have the same one, for example.

Colin Rosenstiel

I'm surprised by those figures. It suggests that on a normal weekday about 80
people an hour board trains at Hoxton. My guess would have been half that.
Mind you, it still means Hoxton is a lightly used station. At Leyton Undergound
Station, about 80 people board trains every five minutes!

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

HoxtonOvergroundSurvey;136794 Wrote:
Hello,

I am conducting research on the impact of the Hoxton Overground station
since it opened in 2010. The study is part of the requirements for the
Masters in Urban Planning from the University of Amsterdam. I would like
to ask you a few questions about how the station has impacted your
connection to the community and the city.

By taking the survey, you either have to live within the boundaries of
Hoxton or use the Hoxton Overground station semi-frequently.

You will find a link to the survey below:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/hoxtonovergroundsurvey

For the purpose of this survey, the borders of Hoxton will be: The
Regents Canal in the north, City Road/ Wharf Road in the west, Old
Street/Hackney Road/Columbia Road in the south and Queensbridge Road in
the East.

No personal information will be collected in this survey and it will
take about 10 minutes to complete.

Please feel free to send this to anyone you think might be interested
and fits the criteria.

Thank you so much for you time,
Patrick

I hope you receive a response from every adult resident of Hoxton.

In the days of British Rail there was no station at Hoxton. Trains ran
non-stop between Broad Street and Dalston Junction.

Before the Second World War there had been additional stations. Mildmay
Park
was closed in 1934, Haggerston was closed in May, 1940 and Shoreditch
was
closed in October 1940. When the War ended, it was decided not to reopen

these stations, almost certainly because they had been so lightly
patronised
previously.

But so where many others on what is now "the overground"

Times have changed and these stations are now well used (again).

tim

Quantify "well used".

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On 2013-04-30 15:59:09 +0000, Robin9 said:

Quantify "well used".

Figures were posted above. I live close by the line, midway between
Dalston and Haggerston, and if you want reassurance I can tell you than
there is much development in the area and many new flats, businesses
and an influx of young people. The stations will get busier but are
already fairly well used but many outlying stations have quiet periods
off peak. The line got much busier when the Highbury link was opened
and even busier now with Clapham.

E.

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On Sunday, 28 April 2013 11:30:33 UTC+1, Robin9 wrote:
I was extremely sceptical when TfL decided to build new stations at

Haggerston and Hoxton. I thought even one station might prove to be a

white

elephant. From my, admittedly infrequent, observations, both Hoxton and

Haggerston have turned out to be white elephants. I hope you return here

with

the results of your survey.

--

Robin9

What do you mean by "both Hoxton and Haggerston have turned out to be white elephants"? What level of use would be sufficient for you not to class them as "white elephants"?

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:55:03 +0100
eastender wrote:
On 2013-04-30 15:59:09 +0000, Robin9 said:

Quantify "well used".

Figures were posted above. I live close by the line, midway between
Dalston and Haggerston, and if you want reassurance I can tell you than
there is much development in the area and many new flats, businesses
and an influx of young people. The stations will get busier but are
already fairly well used but many outlying stations have quiet periods
off peak. The line got much busier when the Highbury link was opened
and even busier now with Clapham.

It would be even busier still if TfL hadn't decided it could get a few
extra pieces of silver but having it just brush zone 1 so making it
pointless as a detour to avoid paying the zone 1 fare. It might also help
if the trains did a bit more than 25 mph everywhere.

--
Spud

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

In article ,
d wrote:
It would be even busier still if TfL hadn't decided it could get a few
extra pieces of silver but having it just brush zone 1 so making it
pointless as a detour to avoid paying the zone 1 fare.

True - but IIRC, that was a decision imposed on TfL by DfT as a condition
of TfL getting the funding to build the line in the first place.

It might also help
if the trains did a bit more than 25 mph everywhere.

Depsite these points, it seems to be quite popular as it is!

--
Mike Bristow

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On Wed, 1 May 2013 13:15:35 +0100
Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
d wrote:
It would be even busier still if TfL hadn't decided it could get a few
extra pieces of silver but having it just brush zone 1 so making it
pointless as a detour to avoid paying the zone 1 fare.

True - but IIRC, that was a decision imposed on TfL by DfT as a condition
of TfL getting the funding to build the line in the first place.

Was it? I can't see the rationale behind that. Seems a bit mean spirited.

It might also help
if the trains did a bit more than 25 mph everywhere.

Depsite these points, it seems to be quite popular as it is!

No doubt, but it could be even more popular and take some strain off the
tube. If I had to commute to canary wharf I personally wouldn't bother to use
it. The DLR or Jubilee seem a much better - and direct - option given they
cost the same.

--
Spud

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On Wed, 01 May 2013 15:50:20 +0100
Paul Corfield wrote:
needed. If Shoreditch High St had remained in Z2 then it is likely
huge numbers of people would have changed onto the ELL to reach the
City via SHS and Zone 2. If that abstraction had arisen then the DfT
could have been lumbered with the bill for revenue support *or* there
would have been demands from the TOCs for compensation from TfL. That
is how the industry structure works.

Figures. Industry first, passengers second, what a surprise. Still, I suppose
if you're a City bound commuter and you don't mind a walk you can always get
off at Hoxton going south or Whitechapel going north to avoid zone 1.

I agree it is rather leisurely but I think the low running speeds and
padded timetables are how the impressive performance stats are
achieved. If everything was scheduled "on a knife edge" then it would
take almost nothing to cause the service to run late and be delayed.

But it would only be delayed on paper. It would still generally be quicker
in practice. There are quite long stretches where 40mph is easily
achievable with the acceleration of the trains. It seems a bit of a cop out
to run them so slow.

--
Spud

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On 2013\05\01 15:50, Paul Corfield wrote:

Yes it was. The rationale was to prevent astraction of revenue from
TOCs running into London Bridge and Cannon St where a Z1 ticket is
needed. If Shoreditch High St had remained in Z2 then it is likely
huge numbers of people would have changed onto the ELL to reach the
City via SHS and Zone 2. If that abstraction had arisen then the DfT
could have been lumbered with the bill for revenue support *or* there
would have been demands from the TOCs for compensation from TfL. That
is how the industry structure works.

I don't like the fact that the ELL has been placed on Z1 as it spoils
the Z23 orbital concept but I am pleased we actually got the line
built.

They could make Shoreditch Zone 1 for entering or exiting, but Zone 2
for passing through.

BTW, I still can't believe that they didn't just call that station
"Shoreditch". The walk from the old station to the new one is about the
same as the walk from Angel's old entrance to new one, but they didn't
feel the need to rename Angel. And SHS is not in the High Street anyway.

An average of 200 people per hour boarding trains between 07.00 and 21.00
hours.

Building new railway stations costs a fortune. As George Osborne keep telling
us, we haven't got fortunes to chuck around. Therefore public money should
be spent only on projects which are going to benefit large numbers of people.

The figures given above do not demonstrate that Hoxton Station is well-used.
They show that it is lightly used. Certainly many other stations in London are
also lightly used but they were built many years ago. They are not new builds
as part of a new project.

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On 2013-05-01 12:52:55 +0000, d said:

If I had to commute to canary wharf I personally wouldn't bother to use
it. The DLR or Jubilee seem a much better - and direct - option given they
cost the same.

Well, if like my wife you live in Dalston and work in Canary Wharf I
bet you would use it, changing at either Shadwell or Canada Water. It
only takes her about 20 mins to get there. Of course you could opt for
the 277 bus instead - let's have a race.

E.

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

Given the comments from the Public Accounts Committee on Mr Osborne's
"National Infrastructure Plan" and the economy's woeful performance I
doubt Mr O is particularly well qualified to make meaningful remarks
about the real value of public sector investment. All this government
wants to do is destroy the public sector.

Hardly. The size of the pubic sector will still be as large as in 2006 after
the current spending review.

Colin Rosenstiel

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On 2013-05-02 06:40:58 +0000, said:

Hardly. The size of the pubic sector will still be as large

Thank goodness for that.

E.

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On Wed, 1 May 2013 17:33:57 +0100
eastender wrote:
On 2013-05-01 12:52:55 +0000, d said:

If I had to commute to canary wharf I personally wouldn't bother to use
it. The DLR or Jubilee seem a much better - and direct - option given they
cost the same.

Well, if like my wife you live in Dalston and work in Canary Wharf I
bet you would use it, changing at either Shadwell or Canada Water. It
only takes her about 20 mins to get there. Of course you could opt for
the 277 bus instead - let's have a race.

If your nearest station is on the ELL then sure. But if the ELL is just one
option then I can't see the point. Why for example would anyone travelling
down from finsbury park bother changing onto it at Highbury and be taken all
around the houses and still have to change at canada water when they could just
stay on the victoria line straight to green park then get the jubilee?

--
Spud

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On Wed, May 01, 2013 at 12:52:55PM +0000, d wrote:

No doubt, but it could be even more popular and take some strain off the
tube. If I had to commute to canary wharf I personally wouldn't bother to use
it. The DLR or Jubilee seem a much better - and direct - option given they
cost the same.

You what? Of course the Jubilee and DLR are better for Canary Wharf than
the Overground is, what with them, umm, going to Canary Wharf.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

There are many different types of sausages. The best are
from the north of England. The wurst are from Germany.
-- seen in alt.2eggs...

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On Thu, 02 May 2013 11:32:45 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, May 01, 2013 at 12:52:55PM +0000, d wrote:

No doubt, but it could be even more popular and take some strain off the
tube. If I had to commute to canary wharf I personally wouldn't bother to
use
it. The DLR or Jubilee seem a much better - and direct - option given they
cost the same.

You what? Of course the Jubilee and DLR are better for Canary Wharf than
the Overground is, what with them, umm, going to Canary Wharf.

Um yes, hello? I meant instead of using the ELL and changing at canada water
or shadwell.

--
Spud

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

eastender wrote:
On 2013-05-02 06:40:58 +0000, said:

Hardly. The size of the pubic sector will still be as large

Thank goodness for that.

I disagree; I fully endorse any efforts to make shavings in that area. I
don't think anyone would argue with the government's increases to personal
wax allowances, for example (although I suspect proposed changes to benefit
married couples are entirely misdirected.)

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

"eastender" wrote in message
news:2013050208050585104-nospam@nospamcom...
On 2013-05-02 06:40:58 +0000, said:

Hardly. The size of the pubic sector will still be as large

Thank goodness for that.

The problem with the public sector having no expectation to save money means
that it has no incentive to avoid waste

mediocre performance gets rewarded and poor performance goes un-punished

This can't be a good thing (unless you are one of the poor performers, that
is)

Hoxton Overground station survey
 

On 2013-05-02 08:49:25 +0000, d said:

Why for example would anyone travelling down from finsbury park bother
changing onto it at Highbury and be taken all around the houses and
still have to change at canada water when they could just stay on the
victoria line straight to green park then get the jubilee?

Bad example - first, the change at Green Park is not good (I think);
two it's taking you geographically a long way out; three the Jubilee
can be a nightmare in overcrowding and breakdowns.

I'd say the Overground is a good option for less stress even if it may
take a bit longer. You could also take the Stratford train at Highbury
and then DLR or Jubilee to CW.

E.