I was at Hackney Downs Station yesterday when a Stansted Express train
crawled through at little more than walking pace. The alignment of this route
through inner East London precludes fast running. Why, I wondered, don't they
route the train via Stratford?

The route between Liverpool Street and Stratford allows rapid movement and
once Stratford is passed, the route between Stratford and Tottenham Hale is
also far better aligned than the line via Hackney.

Presumably there must be a good reason for continuing with the tortuous
Hackney route but does anyone know what it is? Shortage of capacity between
Liverpool Street and Stratford? Too much time lost negotiating the Stratford
curve? Any ideas?

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 May 2013 09:34:38 +0200, Robin9
wrote:


I was at Hackney Downs Station yesterday when a Stansted Express train
crawled through at little more than walking pace. The alignment of this
route through inner East London precludes fast running. Why, I wondered,
don't
they route the train via Stratford?

The route between Liverpool Street and Stratford allows rapid movement
and once Stratford is passed, the route between Stratford and Tottenham
Hale
is also far better aligned than the line via Hackney.

Presumably there must be a good reason for continuing with the tortuous
Hackney route but does anyone know what it is? Shortage of capacity
between Liverpool Street and Stratford? Too much time lost negotiating the
Stratford curve? Any ideas?

This is guesswork on my part but one track at P11 or P12 at Stratford
is occupied for nearly 20 minutes out of each 30 minutes per hour by a
terminating train. Sending 4 Stansted Expresses per hour via Stratford
would rule out there being a stopping service as I don't believe
they'd stop the Expresses there. When Network Rail divert trains via
Stratford due to works on the Hackney route there are no stopping
services to Stratford and the diverted trains run through without
stopping.

Other factors would be that the route via Lea Bridge is incredibly
slow IME of many journeys on that link. I suspect the fast tracks
south of Hackney Downs are faster. Actually getting a path on to the
main line south of T Hale, when coming from Stratford, is also
painful. Trains always have to wait. Now that could change if the
balance of trains per route changed but it is hardly "express" as
things stand today.

I think you are right to conclude that there is a lack of capacity
from Stratford to Liverpool Street in the peaks. Further there are
many freight movements from the GE to the NLL at Stratford which would
conflict directly with a re-routed Stansted Express service.

I believe Network Rail have been doing track replacement at Hackney
Downs which might explain the crawl you say.

--
Paul C

Why does the train have to go to Liverpool ST? Why not run Stansted
Express to Stratford? After all, it (Straford) has a wide range of
connection options and is equally accessible to both Canary Wharf and the
City and even the West End.

In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 May 2013 09:34:38 +0200, Robin9
wrote:


I was at Hackney Downs Station yesterday when a Stansted Express train
crawled through at little more than walking pace. The alignment of this
route through inner East London precludes fast running. Why, I wondered,
don't they route the train via Stratford?

The route between Liverpool Street and Stratford allows rapid movement
and once Stratford is passed, the route between Stratford and Tottenham
Hale is also far better aligned than the line via Hackney.

Presumably there must be a good reason for continuing with the tortuous
Hackney route but does anyone know what it is? Shortage of capacity
between Liverpool Street and Stratford? Too much time lost negotiating
the Stratford curve? Any ideas?

This is guesswork on my part but one track at P11 or P12 at Stratford
is occupied for nearly 20 minutes out of each 30 minutes per hour by a
terminating train. Sending 4 Stansted Expresses per hour via Stratford
would rule out there being a stopping service as I don't believe
they'd stop the Expresses there. When Network Rail divert trains via
Stratford due to works on the Hackney route there are no stopping
services to Stratford and the diverted trains run through without
stopping.

Other factors would be that the route via Lea Bridge is incredibly
slow IME of many journeys on that link. I suspect the fast tracks
south of Hackney Downs are faster. Actually getting a path on to the
main line south of T Hale, when coming from Stratford, is also
painful. Trains always have to wait. Now that could change if the
balance of trains per route changed but it is hardly "express" as
things stand today.

I think you are right to conclude that there is a lack of capacity
from Stratford to Liverpool Street in the peaks. Further there are
many freight movements from the GE to the NLL at Stratford which would
conflict directly with a re-routed Stansted Express service.

I believe Network Rail have been doing track replacement at Hackney
Downs which might explain the crawl you say.

Why does the train have to go to Liverpool ST? Why not run Stansted
Express to Stratford? After all, it (Straford) has a wide range of
connection options and is equally accessible to both Canary Wharf and
the City and even the West End.

Bloody hell! Liverpool St is peripheral enough to central London as it is!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 06:57:18
on Mon, 27 May 2013, remarked:

Why does the train have to go to Liverpool ST? Why not run Stansted
Express to Stratford? After all, it (Straford) has a wide range of
connection options and is equally accessible to both Canary Wharf and
the City and even the West End.

Bloody hell! Liverpool St is peripheral enough to central London as it is!

And the advertising at Stansted proudly announces the time it takes to
get to Tottenham Hale (as a proxy for "London"), so why not stop the
trains there??
--
Roland Perry

On 27/05/2013 12:57, wrote:
In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 May 2013 09:34:38 +0200, Robin9
wrote:


I was at Hackney Downs Station yesterday when a Stansted Express train
crawled through at little more than walking pace. The alignment of this
route through inner East London precludes fast running. Why, I wondered,
don't they route the train via Stratford?

The route between Liverpool Street and Stratford allows rapid movement
and once Stratford is passed, the route between Stratford and Tottenham
Hale is also far better aligned than the line via Hackney.

Presumably there must be a good reason for continuing with the tortuous
Hackney route but does anyone know what it is? Shortage of capacity
between Liverpool Street and Stratford? Too much time lost negotiating
the Stratford curve? Any ideas?

This is guesswork on my part but one track at P11 or P12 at Stratford
is occupied for nearly 20 minutes out of each 30 minutes per hour by a
terminating train. Sending 4 Stansted Expresses per hour via Stratford
would rule out there being a stopping service as I don't believe
they'd stop the Expresses there. When Network Rail divert trains via
Stratford due to works on the Hackney route there are no stopping
services to Stratford and the diverted trains run through without
stopping.

Other factors would be that the route via Lea Bridge is incredibly
slow IME of many journeys on that link. I suspect the fast tracks
south of Hackney Downs are faster. Actually getting a path on to the
main line south of T Hale, when coming from Stratford, is also
painful. Trains always have to wait. Now that could change if the
balance of trains per route changed but it is hardly "express" as
things stand today.

I think you are right to conclude that there is a lack of capacity
from Stratford to Liverpool Street in the peaks. Further there are
many freight movements from the GE to the NLL at Stratford which would
conflict directly with a re-routed Stansted Express service.

I believe Network Rail have been doing track replacement at Hackney
Downs which might explain the crawl you say.

Why does the train have to go to Liverpool ST? Why not run Stansted
Express to Stratford? After all, it (Straford) has a wide range of
connection options and is equally accessible to both Canary Wharf and
the City and even the West End.

Bloody hell! Liverpool St is peripheral enough to central London as it is!

???

Liverpool Street Station is as far into Central London as any other
major terminus and closer than most. It's inside the inner ring (unlike
Paddington, Euston, KX and St. P) and only about 700 yards from the Bank
junction.

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 27/05/2013 12:57, wrote:
In article ,
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 May 2013 09:34:38 +0200, Robin9
wrote:


I was at Hackney Downs Station yesterday when a Stansted Express train
crawled through at little more than walking pace. The alignment of
this
route through inner East London precludes fast running. Why, I
wondered,
don't they route the train via Stratford?

The route between Liverpool Street and Stratford allows rapid movement
and once Stratford is passed, the route between Stratford and
Tottenham
Hale is also far better aligned than the line via Hackney.

Presumably there must be a good reason for continuing with the
tortuous
Hackney route but does anyone know what it is? Shortage of capacity
between Liverpool Street and Stratford? Too much time lost negotiating
the Stratford curve? Any ideas?

This is guesswork on my part but one track at P11 or P12 at Stratford
is occupied for nearly 20 minutes out of each 30 minutes per hour by a
terminating train. Sending 4 Stansted Expresses per hour via Stratford
would rule out there being a stopping service as I don't believe
they'd stop the Expresses there. When Network Rail divert trains via
Stratford due to works on the Hackney route there are no stopping
services to Stratford and the diverted trains run through without
stopping.

Other factors would be that the route via Lea Bridge is incredibly
slow IME of many journeys on that link. I suspect the fast tracks
south of Hackney Downs are faster. Actually getting a path on to the
main line south of T Hale, when coming from Stratford, is also
painful. Trains always have to wait. Now that could change if the
balance of trains per route changed but it is hardly "express" as
things stand today.

I think you are right to conclude that there is a lack of capacity
from Stratford to Liverpool Street in the peaks. Further there are
many freight movements from the GE to the NLL at Stratford which would
conflict directly with a re-routed Stansted Express service.

I believe Network Rail have been doing track replacement at Hackney
Downs which might explain the crawl you say.

Why does the train have to go to Liverpool ST? Why not run Stansted
Express to Stratford? After all, it (Straford) has a wide range of
connection options and is equally accessible to both Canary Wharf and
the City and even the West End.

Bloody hell! Liverpool St is peripheral enough to central London as it
is!

???

Liverpool Street Station is as far into Central London as any other major
terminus and closer than most. It's inside the inner ring (unlike
Paddington, Euston, KX and St. P) and only about 700 yards from the Bank
junction.



It would be interesting to know what destinations, beyond Liverpool St,
Stansted Express users are heading for but I'm prepared to lay a (very)
small wager that a majority continue beyond Liverpool St and Tottenham Hale
to destinations that can be reached as easily from Stratford and that only a
small proportion continue to their destination on foot from Liverpool St.

On 2013-05-27 07:34:38 +0000, Robin9 said:

I was at Hackney Downs Station yesterday when a Stansted Express train
crawled through at little more than walking pace. The alignment of this
route
through inner East London precludes fast running. Why, I wondered, don't
they
route the train via Stratford?

The route between Liverpool Street and Stratford allows rapid movement
and
once Stratford is passed, the route between Stratford and Tottenham Hale
is
also far better aligned than the line via Hackney.

Presumably there must be a good reason for continuing with the tortuous

Hackney route but does anyone know what it is? Shortage of capacity
between
Liverpool Street and Stratford? Too much time lost negotiating the
Stratford
curve? Any ideas?

During engineering works they sometimes do run via Stratford, but it's
very, very slow. I can't be arsed to look up up the PSRs but Stratford
- Coppermill is not the fastest of routes, and its quite a bit slower
than via Hackney.

I suspect the real problem though is capacity on the main between
Bethnal Green and Stratford.

But why is the route between Stratford and Coppermill so slow?

On 27/05/2013 16:35, Graham Harrison wrote:

"JNugent" wrote:
wrote:
(Graham Harrison) wrote:

Why does the train have to go to Liverpool ST? Why not run Stansted
Express to Stratford? After all, it (Straford) has a wide range of
connection options and is equally accessible to both Canary Wharf and
the City and even the West End.

Bloody hell! Liverpool St is peripheral enough to central London as
it is!

???
Liverpool Street Station is as far into Central London as any other
major terminus and closer than most. It's inside the inner ring
(unlike Paddington, Euston, KX and St. P) and only about 700 yards
from the Bank junction.

It would be interesting to know what destinations, beyond Liverpool St,
Stansted Express users are heading for but I'm prepared to lay a (very)
small wager that a majority continue beyond Liverpool St and Tottenham
Hale to destinations that can be reached as easily from Stratford and
that only a small proportion continue to their destination on foot from
Liverpool St.

Circle Line?

Buses within the central area?

Travelling in from Stratford by bus might not be as quick as staying on
the train all the way to Liverpool Street.