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Driverless Trains
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Driverless Trains
In message , at 23:51:57 on Fri, 4 Oct 2013,
" remarked: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-Tube-future-2 1st-century-vision-London-train-goes--offering-30-space-air-conditioning .html That has to be the ugliest front end on a train ever devised. -- Roland Perry |
Driverless Trains
It looks like the back of a bus.
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Driverless Trains
Roland Perry wrote on 05 October 2013 09:54:35 ...
In message , at 23:51:57 on Fri, 4 Oct 2013, " remarked: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-Tube-future-2 1st-century-vision-London-train-goes--offering-30-space-air-conditioning .html That has to be the ugliest front end on a train ever devised. I don't find it particularly ugly, quite elegant in a way, but what I find odd is that this driverless train doesn't appear to let passengers sit at the front, as on the DLR and the Paris Metro driverless trains. No side windows near the front, and a dark front. So if it's not a driver's cab, what is it? If it's a bolthole for the passenger service agent to use when the train is crush-loaded, how does he get there (no separate side door)? -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Driverless Trains
On 05/10/2013 13:18, Richard J. wrote:
Roland Perry wrote on 05 October 2013 09:54:35 ... In message , at 23:51:57 on Fri, 4 Oct 2013, " remarked: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-Tube-future-2 1st-century-vision-London-train-goes--offering-30-space-air-conditioning .html That has to be the ugliest front end on a train ever devised. I don't find it particularly ugly, quite elegant in a way, but what I find odd is that this driverless train doesn't appear to let passengers sit at the front, as on the DLR and the Paris Metro driverless trains. I was also wondering about that and hope that this mock up will not turn out to be the way of things. The Nuremberg U-Bahn's U-3 line also allows passengers front views. No side windows near the front, and a dark front. So if it's not a driver's cab, what is it? If it's a bolthole for the passenger service agent to use when the train is crush-loaded, how does he get there (no separate side door)? Perhaps there won't be a PSA, as there is not in Lille, Toulouse, Paris, Rennes, Brescia or Copenhagen? |
Driverless Trains
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Driverless Trains
In message , at 15:41:06 on Sat, 5 Oct 2013,
" remarked: Speaking of driverless trains, AIUI, the nearest prospect of that happening in the UK is on the Glasgow Subway. Are there any concrete plans What's usually asked for is "concrete steps". Which are not that uncommon at railway stations, it has to be said. As recently as 2011, the USA was talking about: "concrete steps toward enabling the future of human space exploration across the solar system." Which beats firing people up in rockets I suppose. -- Roland Perry |
Driverless Trains
On 05/10/2013 13:18, Richard J. wrote:
Roland Perry wrote on 05 October 2013 09:54:35 ... In message , at 23:51:57 on Fri, 4 Oct 2013, " remarked: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-Tube-future-2 1st-century-vision-London-train-goes--offering-30-space-air-conditioning .html That has to be the ugliest front end on a train ever devised. I don't find it particularly ugly, quite elegant in a way, but what I find odd is that this driverless train doesn't appear to let passengers sit at the front, as on the DLR and the Paris Metro driverless trains. No side windows near the front, and a dark front. So if it's not a driver's cab, what is it? If it's a bolthole for the passenger service agent to use when the train is crush-loaded, how does he get there (no separate side door)? It's a cab, because it is not a driverless train: "Siemens would be able to supply trains suitable for manual driving, automated operation with a driver in the cab, automated operation with no cab but with a member of staff onboard, or unattended automatic operation. The wall separating the cab from the passenger area is designed to be removed if conversion to automatic operation were to be requested after the trains entered service, increasing the space available for passengers. The control equipment would be located under a seat, where it could be accessed by on-train staff if required; a similar procedure has been adopted on the Docklands Light Railway, where onboard staff can drive the trains manually if necessary." http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/u...und-train.html -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Driverless Trains
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 9:54:35 AM UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 23:51:57 on Fri, 4 Oct 2013, " remarked: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-Tube-future-2 1st-century-vision-London-train-goes--offering-30-space-air-conditioning .html That has to be the ugliest front end on a train ever devised. It looks like a jar lid. Maybe it's the emergency escape; simply unscrew the front and let people out... PhilD -- |
Driverless Trains
wrote in message ... On 05/10/2013 13:18, Richard J. wrote: Roland Perry wrote on 05 October 2013 09:54:35 ... In message , at 23:51:57 on Fri, 4 Oct 2013, " remarked: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-Tube-future-2 1st-century-vision-London-train-goes--offering-30-space-air-conditioning .html That has to be the ugliest front end on a train ever devised. I don't find it particularly ugly, quite elegant in a way, but what I find odd is that this driverless train doesn't appear to let passengers sit at the front, as on the DLR and the Paris Metro driverless trains. I was also wondering about that and hope that this mock up will not turn out to be the way of things. The Nuremberg U-Bahn's U-3 line also allows passengers front views. So does Copenhagen tim |
Driverless Trains
wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages tim |
Driverless Trains
On 06/10/2013 12:34, tim...... wrote:
wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages How many of those are "in use on the London Underground"? London's tube (sic) lines haven't had wide walk-through gangways, not even on the new Victoria line trains. I'm disappointed that the DM hasn't picked up that this would make it easier for foreign beggars to move through the train... -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Driverless Trains
"tim......" wrote:
wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages Yes, but they've never been available on our small diameter Tube trains. You need articulated trains to make it possible with narrow body shells. Of course, it's much easier with full-size trains, even without articulation, which is why the S stock and 378s have them. |
Driverless Trains
"Recliner" wrote in message ... "tim......" wrote: wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages Yes, but they've never been available on our small diameter Tube trains. I don't see why "our" is significant. If you are trying to say it isn't available on small diameter Tube trains, then you are wrong Copenhagen has them and that is most definitely not a large profile tunnel So what's new here, other than it being new to the UK? You need articulated trains to make it possible with narrow body shells. But that's not new either. All we have here is current technology being brought to the UK 10 years (plus) after other countries have got it what's to shout about (from a technology pov)? tim |
Driverless Trains
"tim......" wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... "tim......" wrote: wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages Yes, but they've never been available on our small diameter Tube trains. I don't see why "our" is significant. It's based on a press release about possible future London Tube trains. It's not a survey on world Metro systems. If you are trying to say it isn't available on small diameter Tube trains, then you are wrong Copenhagen has them and that is most definitely not a large profile tunnel Are they articulated? So what's new here, other than it being new to the UK? You need articulated trains to make it possible with narrow body shells .. But that's not new either. All we have here is current technology being brought to the UK 10 years (plus) after other countries have got it what's to shout about (from a technology pov)? This is based on a press release to tell Londoners about their possible future trains. It's not an engineering research journal. |
Driverless Trains
On 06/10/2013 14:06, tim...... wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... "tim......" wrote: wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages Yes, but they've never been available on our small diameter Tube trains. I don't see why "our" is significant. People wanting to get around London generally won't care about elsewhere. Maybe TfL could try this approach? "We've shut down the Piccadilly line. People trying to get to Heathrow shouldn't be upset, after all there is a perfectly good metro in Copenhagen". If you are trying to say it isn't available on small diameter Tube trains, then you are wrong Copenhagen has them and that is most definitely not a large profile tunnel It's not London tube profile either, from what I remember. More like DLR. So what's new here, other than it being new to the UK? On that basis the newspapers may as well not report anything - what is new apart from the new stuff? (in the specific case of the Daily Mail, them choosing not to report anything ever again might not be a bad thing). It is a proposal for a brand new model of train, meeting requirements which are unique to London in a way which has not been done before. You need articulated trains to make it possible with narrow body shells. But that's not new either. All we have here is current technology being brought to the UK 10 years (plus) after other countries have got it what's to shout about (from a technology pov)? Nowt. Railways were pretty much sorted by about 1830, so nothing to see, move along now. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Driverless Trains
On 06/10/2013 12:32, tim...... wrote:
wrote in message ... On 05/10/2013 13:18, Richard J. wrote: Roland Perry wrote on 05 October 2013 09:54:35 ... In message , at 23:51:57 on Fri, 4 Oct 2013, " remarked: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-Tube-future-2 1st-century-vision-London-train-goes--offering-30-space-air-conditioning .html That has to be the ugliest front end on a train ever devised. I don't find it particularly ugly, quite elegant in a way, but what I find odd is that this driverless train doesn't appear to let passengers sit at the front, as on the DLR and the Paris Metro driverless trains. I was also wondering about that and hope that this mock up will not turn out to be the way of things. The Nuremberg U-Bahn's U-3 line also allows passengers front views. So does Copenhagen tim All the UTO trains on which I have travelled do have front views. |
Driverless Trains
On 06/10/2013 12:34, tim...... wrote:
wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages tim First saw it on Berlin U-Bahn's U5, a.k.a. the East German line, in 1999. |
Driverless Trains
On 06/10/2013 13:36, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 06/10/2013 12:34, tim...... wrote: wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages How many of those are "in use on the London Underground"? London's tube (sic) lines haven't had wide walk-through gangways, not even on the new Victoria line trains. Didn't plans for the 09ts stipulate walk-through? If so, then what happened? |
Driverless Trains
On 06/10/2013 14:06, tim...... wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... "tim......" wrote: wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages Yes, but they've never been available on our small diameter Tube trains. I don't see why "our" is significant. If you are trying to say it isn't available on small diameter Tube trains, then you are wrong Copenhagen has them and that is most definitely not a large profile tunnel Brescia as well as they use the exact same rolling stock. |
Driverless Trains
On 06/10/2013 15:08, Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 06/10/2013 14:06, tim...... wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... "tim......" wrote: wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages Yes, but they've never been available on our small diameter Tube trains. I don't see why "our" is significant. People wanting to get around London generally won't care about elsewhere. Maybe TfL could try this approach? "We've shut down the Piccadilly line. People trying to get to Heathrow shouldn't be upset, after all there is a perfectly good metro in Copenhagen". It'd be cool if they eventually extended the Copenhagen Metro to Malmö. |
Driverless Trains
" wrote:
On 06/10/2013 13:36, Arthur Figgis wrote: On 06/10/2013 12:34, tim...... wrote: wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages How many of those are "in use on the London Underground"? London's tube (sic) lines haven't had wide walk-through gangways, not even on the new Victoria line trains. Didn't plans for the 09ts stipulate walk-through? If so, then what happened? Metronet happened. They went for a low risk conventional design, as there was no financial incentive to complete the research project that LU had previously started. The new articulated trains for the PIcc are essentially what the 09s for the Victoria line should have been. |
Driverless Trains
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Driverless Trains
David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Oct 04, 2013 at 11:51:57PM +0100, wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html Air conditioning, huh? I wonder where the exhaust heat is going to go. Into the newly cooled deep level stations, though much of the Picc is, of course, above ground. |
Driverless Trains
wrote in message ... On 06/10/2013 15:08, Arthur Figgis wrote: On 06/10/2013 14:06, tim...... wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... "tim......" wrote: wrote in message ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html what's all the bolliox about no connecting door, like Siemens have just invented this. Other countries have had this for ages Yes, but they've never been available on our small diameter Tube trains. I don't see why "our" is significant. People wanting to get around London generally won't care about elsewhere. Maybe TfL could try this approach? "We've shut down the Piccadilly line. People trying to get to Heathrow shouldn't be upset, after all there is a perfectly good metro in Copenhagen". It'd be cool if they eventually extended the Copenhagen Metro to Malmö. that is effectively what they do have :-( tim |
Driverless Trains
Driverless trains also on the Dubai Metro. Unusual feature is that the South end of trains is for first class and women only.
Lawrie |
Driverless Trains
David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Oct 04, 2013 at 11:51:57PM +0100, wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ditioning.html Air conditioning, huh? I wonder where the exhaust heat is going to go. Here's some more info: "Siemens is working with a specialist partner on a novel concept to provide onboard air-conditioning, a major challenge in London because of the tight tunnel profile and the problem of dispersing heat generated by operations. The proposed system features onboard tanks containing a phase-changing polymer which would be cooled below its freezing point when the train was running on surface sections of the network. On underground sections heat transferred from the air-conditioning system would be used to melt the polymer again. The train would also be designed to produce less heat than existing stock, being 30% more energy-efficient and 20% lighter than 'similar modern metro trains', and able to use regenerative braking to bring the train almost to a stand. Low-profile LED lighting would be used throughout, helping to maximise headroom. Other proposals include advertising screens able to show changing images and video, and a smart information system which would provide passengers at stations with real-time information on which parts of the next train were least busy." From http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/u...und-train.html |
Driverless Trains
In message
, at 08:03:26 on Wed, 9 Oct 2013, Recliner remarked: Other proposals include advertising screens able to show changing images and video Much to the irritation of all passengers on board. -- Roland Perry |
Driverless Trains
On Wed, 9 Oct 2013 16:43:48 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: Much to the irritation of all passengers on board. Depends how it's done. I found the Train-Infoscreen system used in Hamburg (a nice bit of Denglish), in use since the late 90s, not too intrusive. It also did some quite characterful "next station" displays with background images of a recognisable feature of the station. Neil -- Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply. |
Driverless Trains
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 08:03:26 on Wed, 9 Oct 2013, Recliner remarked: Other proposals include advertising screens able to show changing images and video Much to the irritation of all passengers on board. last time I worked there Hannover trams had these I think they got rid of them tim |
Driverless Trains
On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:05:09PM +0200, tim...... wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote: Recliner said: Other proposals include advertising screens able to show changing images and video Much to the irritation of all passengers on board. last time I worked there Hannover trams had these I think they got rid of them Seems like most of the London cabs that used to have stupid advertising screens inside them have got rid of them too. I've certainly not seen one in recent months. OTOH, there are some now with advertising screens on their roofs instead. Let's hope they all accidentally drive off a cliff. -- David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic There's no problem so complex that it can't be solved by killing everyone even remotely associated with it |
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