"tim......" wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 00:32:06 +0000, Cliff Frisby
wrote:

I don't know whether I am mis-remembering something, but I thought it was
obligatory for a bus operator to issue paper proof that you have paid for
the journey you are making, assuming you don't already have it. The
purpose, I always assumed, was that it protected the innocent passenger
against false accusations of fare-dodging.
[...]
A piece of plastic with the information buried in an embedded chip and/or a
remote computer under the sole control of the operator doesn't provide any
sort of objective evidence, as far as I can see.

I would argue that the proof of payment is still there, it's just in
the card and can be read with appropriate equipment. I don't think
there's any suggestion that Oyster (or other) cards can appear to be
correctly validated as you get on the bus but then show no such
validation when interrogated later... the original post was about a
bus journey not appearing on the web site the next day (I think), and
in my experience it sometimes takes a day or two extra to show up.

Sorry I should have explained better

I don't get my journey history from the web site

I got it from a station doing a download of the info on the card so I am
certain that this journey wasn't registered on the card

Perhaps not, but was it registered on the central database? And if so,
were you charged anyway?

The wife asked me to top up her Oyster card on line so I was looking at her
previous travel to see how much she needed. A couple of weeks ago I saw that
she used the Overground to Willesden Junc but then no bus to to Willesden to
go to college but did use the bus on the way back.
I asked her what happened and sods law an inspector checked her card but she
said the reader didn't work. The inspector checked with driver who confirmed
it was not working. I guess she was lucky.

Kevin

"tim......" wrote in message ...

Got on the bus on Saturday, and concentrating on the stupid tiny little
screen so that I should see my remaining balance I didn't notice whether I
got a red/green light (or a beep)

When nothing came up on the screen I asked the driver if it had registered,
and she said no.

So I "tapped in" again and got "card already used for this journey", driver
looked bemused, I shrugged and sat down.

And now on obtaining a printout of my journey history I find that I didn't
make a registered bus journey at 18:00 on Saturday.

So how did that happen (and I dread to think what the conversation would
have been if an inspector got on - he wouldn't have believed me, would he!)?

On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 09:41:34PM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

Irrelevant. This thread is about Oyster cards.

You appear to have changed it to be about both Oyster cards and thread
topics.

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

For every vengeance, there is an equal and opposite revengeance.
-- Cartoon Law XI

In message , at 12:39:43
on Mon, 4 Nov 2013, David Cantrell remarked:
Irrelevant. This thread is about Oyster cards.

You appear to have changed it to be about both Oyster cards and thread
topics.

Trying to keep the thread on topic is entirely acceptable.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 11:51:34 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:10:38 on
Sat, 2 Nov 2013, Richard remarked:
I think it just depends upon where you place a transport
operator/authority on that "adversary" scale, and I don't, really.

You've never encountered a GNER gripper; I can tell.

Many times, but I think I must have been lucky, I know they did/do
have a certain reputation...

I once spent most of the trip from Peterborough to London arguing the
toss with several intransigent GNER staff over whether my ticket
qualified me for a free cup of coffee. It did, but they only conceded
after a protracted fight.

I was always going to/from Leeds. I think I'd rather pay for it, and
have a decent, friendly conversation with the person serving it, as on
Southeastern this morning.

Compare and contrast to the ECML's current incumbent where such
arguments are almost guaranteed when the "free" First Class catering is
only available to people whose trip is over 70 minutes, and some
schedules from Grantham to London are more than 70 minutes and some are
less. (And they aren't brave enough to come out and say that Grantham is
either "always in" or "always out", regardless of how many milliseconds
either side of the 70 minutes they are scheduled for).

Very poor.

Richard.

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
"tim......" wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 00:32:06 +0000, Cliff Frisby
wrote:

I don't know whether I am mis-remembering something, but I thought it
was
obligatory for a bus operator to issue paper proof that you have paid
for
the journey you are making, assuming you don't already have it. The
purpose, I always assumed, was that it protected the innocent passenger
against false accusations of fare-dodging.
[...]
A piece of plastic with the information buried in an embedded chip
and/or a
remote computer under the sole control of the operator doesn't provide
any
sort of objective evidence, as far as I can see.

I would argue that the proof of payment is still there, it's just in
the card and can be read with appropriate equipment. I don't think
there's any suggestion that Oyster (or other) cards can appear to be
correctly validated as you get on the bus but then show no such
validation when interrogated later... the original post was about a
bus journey not appearing on the web site the next day (I think), and
in my experience it sometimes takes a day or two extra to show up.

Sorry I should have explained better

I don't get my journey history from the web site

I got it from a station doing a download of the info on the card so I am
certain that this journey wasn't registered on the card

Perhaps not, but was it registered on the central database? And if so,
were you charged anyway?

seems that by comparison with my previous statement you are right

I got the worst of all worlds he

no printed statement that I can use as a receipt (not that I need one for
this particular journey)

no proof, on my card at time of travel, that I had paid should an inspector
have got on

and no free ride either.

However,

I'm open to offers to stand an an "expert" witness should anybody want
evidence that Oyster isn't foolproof

tim

"tim......" wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message
...
"tim......" wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 00:32:06 +0000, Cliff Frisby
wrote:

I don't know whether I am mis-remembering something, but I thought it was
obligatory for a bus operator to issue paper proof that you have paid for
the journey you are making, assuming you don't already have it. The
purpose, I always assumed, was that it protected the innocent passenger
against false accusations of fare-dodging.
[...]
A piece of plastic with the information buried in an embedded chip and/or a
remote computer under the sole control of the operator doesn't provide any
sort of objective evidence, as far as I can see.

I would argue that the proof of payment is still there, it's just in
the card and can be read with appropriate equipment. I don't think
there's any suggestion that Oyster (or other) cards can appear to be
correctly validated as you get on the bus but then show no such
validation when interrogated later... the original post was about a
bus journey not appearing on the web site the next day (I think), and
in my experience it sometimes takes a day or two extra to show up.

Sorry I should have explained better

I don't get my journey history from the web site

I got it from a station doing a download of the info on the card so I am
certain that this journey wasn't registered on the card

Perhaps not, but was it registered on the central database? And if so,
were you charged anyway?

seems that by comparison with my previous statement you are right

I got the worst of all worlds he

no printed statement that I can use as a receipt (not that I need one
for this particular journey)

no proof, on my card at time of travel, that I had paid should an inspector have got on

and no free ride either.

However,

I'm open to offers to stand an an "expert" witness should anybody want
evidence that Oyster isn't foolproof

Presumably you could get a journey list online to confirm it? That would
also act as a receipt if needed.

In any case, the Oyster system did actually do the right thing, even if the
card didn't register it -- it charged you the correct fare for the bus
ride, and stopped you from being double-charged.

I'd like to have a discussion about cheese on toast.

Why oh why oh why oh why do no traincos serve it?

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

" Suppose... there should be a law made that all black men should
be imprisoned, it would be unreasonable and we had as little
reason to quarrel with other men for being of different
[religious] opinions as for being of different complexions. "

-- James II, King of England
overthrown by Christian bigots for his tolerant beliefs

In message , at 12:50:12
on Tue, 5 Nov 2013, David Cantrell remarked:
I'd like to have a discussion about cheese on toast.

Why oh why oh why oh why do no traincos serve it?

It's a bit rare (especially in Wales), I agree.
--
Roland Perry

"Recliner" wrote in message
...



Presumably you could get a journey list online to confirm it? That would
also act as a receipt if needed.

unfortunately you would be wrong

anonymously registered card to a throw away email

and I've forgotten the login so I can't now change it.

stuffed!

tim