Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

Neil Williams wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:31:01 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
Only if Crossrail goes non-stop to Heathrow from Paddington, and accepts
Travelcards/Oyster.

Paddington is in the middle of nowhere in London terms, hence why the
Picc Line is often still a viable choice. Crossrail will serve more
useful places more quickly.

I've not seen figures but it looks like the Picc carries many more pax to
and from Heathrow than HEx. The trains are much more frequent and are often
standing-room only by the time they leave T123. Although they're slower,
the more frequent service and services to a dozen or more useful central
London stations, not to mention lower fares, makes them much the better
choice for most people. And even if the Picc doesn't go directly to where
people want to go, it has excellent connections to other Tube lines, unlike
HEx.

Crossrail will be a cross between the Picc and Hex -- prices, schedules,
useful direct destinations and journey times between them.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message

, at 16:24:21 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

The latter won't work, as it's a fundamental requirement for Heathrow in
the modern age to be able to move passengers from one terminal to another free of charge.

But not necessarily by underground train -- lots of airports use
inter-terminal buses, as does Heathrow for air-side movements.

Indeed, but Heathrow's layout means that using buses is extremely
inefficient and slow. It would be a major new fleet and an expensive
operation to run. Far simpler just to let the passengers use the trains,
given that the trains are already there.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message , at
23:48:22 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Only if Crossrail goes non-stop to Heathrow from Paddington, and
accepts Travelcards/Oyster.

Paddington is in the middle of nowhere in London terms, hence why the
Picc Line is often still a viable choice. Crossrail will serve more
useful places more quickly.

But Heathrow Express will still be attractive to visitors for all the
reasons I've mentioned earlier in the thread.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message

, at 18:05:11 on Fri, 15 Nov 2013, Recliner
remarked:
I've not seen figures but it looks like the Picc carries many more pax to
and from Heathrow than HEx.

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On 2013-11-16 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry said:

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

Not really - HEx is still half the price of a taxi unless you share a
cab. I got it last week for the first time in a while and was surprised
to find the fare as high as £20 (for some reason I had £14 one way in
my mind). But isn't a taxi to Westminster about £40 at least?

I would have got Connect or the Piccadeilly line otherwise but as
others note Paddington is not a great place anyway. To get to Dalston
Junction I needed five trains: HEx-Padd, Padd-Edgware Rd, Edgware
Rd-King's Cross, King's Cross-Highbury, Highbury-Dalst J.

Suppose I could have gone via Oxford Circus.

E.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

In message 2013111610301056084-nospam@nospamcom, at 10:30:10 on Sat,
16 Nov 2013, eastender remarked:
HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who
had it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition
with any other rail-based modes.

Not really - HEx is still half the price of a taxi unless you share a
cab. I got it last week for the first time in a while and was surprised
to find the fare as high as £20 (for some reason I had £14 one way in
my mind). But isn't a taxi to Westminster about £40 at least?

How they choose to set the fare has little to do with the business
objective, which was entirely about replacing taxis (in the vicinity of
Heathrow towards London; taxis onward from Paddington are not affected).
--
Roland Perry

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 22:08:15 +0100, tim...... wrote:
Install barriers and make anyone who hasn't already got a "premium" ticket
buy a (suggest 5 pound!) excess from a machine

These barriers don't seem to restrict the passenger flow at MAD and that's
with this being the only rail connection to the airport

Of course, they will have to stop giving "free" rides from T123 to T4 (etc)

Couldn't they just issue free tickets for use between the terminals that
are only available at the terminals? Perhaps only valid for half an hour
or something.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On 16/11/2013 11:18, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:30:10 +0000, eastender
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry said:

To get to Dalston
Junction I needed five trains: HEx-Padd, Padd-Edgware Rd, Edgware
Rd-King's Cross, King's Cross-Highbury, Highbury-Dalst J.

Suppose I could have gone via Oxford Circus.

Or via Whitechapel - 1 change to the H&C. Slow but a lot less palaver.

Alternatively I'd have gone to Warren St on the tube and then jumped
on a 27 or 205 bus (assuming you have a Travelcard rather than PAYG).

All depends on how laden down with bags you are I guess.

Why the 27 or 205 - neither of them goes to Dalston Junction?

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:49:52 +0000, David Walters
wrote:
Couldn't they just issue free tickets for use between the terminals
that
are only available at the terminals? Perhaps only valid for half an
hour
or something.

Which would be used as free ways around paying the extra! Didn't get
on at Heathrow mate!
I don't see why Oyster should have any problems with a higher non
zonal fare, in any case. It manages Watford Junction OK, which is in
exactly that situation, and Connect doesn't seem to have a massive
issue with people not paying the extra bit when using a Travelcard as
far as Hayes.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

Piccadilly line 'bustitution' to Heathrow this weekend
 

On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 10:30:10 +0000, eastender
wrote:

On 2013-11-16 09:04:46 +0000, Roland Perry said:

HEx is only intended as a replacement for taxis (ie for people who had
it not existed would have taken a taxi), it's not in competition with
any other rail-based modes.

Not really - HEx is still half the price of a taxi unless you share a
cab. I got it last week for the first time in a while and was surprised
to find the fare as high as £20 (for some reason I had £14 one way in
my mind). But isn't a taxi to Westminster about £40 at least?

I would have got Connect or the Piccadeilly line otherwise but as
others note Paddington is not a great place anyway. To get to Dalston
Junction I needed five trains: HEx-Padd, Padd-Edgware Rd, Edgware
Rd-King's Cross, King's Cross-Highbury, Highbury-Dalst J.

Suppose I could have gone via Oxford Circus.

I wonder how that compared with Picc to Green Park, then Vic to H&I,
then Overground? The latter would certainly be much cheaper, but
would it be much longer? According to the TfL Journey Planner, it
would only be six minutes longer.